Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[BaseballCoach]

That isn't how it works and you know it. Just like Beck is likely going back to junior even though he's probably better than some of our current forwards Reinbacher despite being a first round pick is in that same boat. Think about how much better he'd have to be for management to pull the trigger on a move like that. Seider spent two years honing his craft before graduating. Nothing Reinbacher has done suggests he's two developmental years ahead of where Moritz was. Use some logic man.

So you do not believe he will be the 2nd or 3rd best D on the team. I get it. Bu that was not my question. My question was if a young player is very good without yet dominating the NHL (who does anyway? Crosby and 1 or 2 others?), say he is around halfway up the team chart, MUST he go back to play on a larger ice surface right away so that he is locked into two more years outside an NHL he is good enough to play in as a regular now?

Was the word "dominating" unnecessarily strong? Purposely used to drive the conclusion that poster wanted?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't know man. I'd have much preferred we'd put him in the minors for at least a year. We've got a long history of rushng prospects and them underperforming. Slaf had flashes where he looked like he belonged last year but I wish they'd waited on bringing him up.

Still hopeful for him. He's been working hard during the summer and the guy's body is NHL ready. I'm not sure about IQ though. He got rocked hard last year. I hope they spend a lot of time with him on this. It only takes one good hit to derail a career.

If he can get his game together, his combination of size and skill... he could be killer. We have to develop this guy the right way. I have faith in MSL. He's been wonderful. There was apparently a gameplan for Slaf last year and I guess they weren't able to execute. But I really wish they'd given him at least a year before bringing him up. Same with RB. No rush. Let him go back and play a year.

What if Reinbacher is not getting rocked and shows good IQ? Knowing you, I don't think your ego is invested in a particular outcome. I think you would wait and look/see.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What if Reinbacher is not getting rocked and shows good IQ? Knowing you, I don't think your ego is invested in a particular outcome. I think you would wait and look/see.

Not sure what my ego has to do with anything here but... okay.

I don't see the need to rush him do you? The minors were good for Max, PK, Price... I think it helped make them better players. Under MB we wound up rushing guys at 18. It didn't really pan out.

I don't see the point in bringing in an 18 year old unless they're truly elite and ready. We're rebuilding. What's the rush?

 

[Scriptor]

Not sure what my ego has to do with anything here but... okay.

I don't see the need to rush him do you? The minors were good for Max, PK, Price... I think it helped make them better players. Under MB we wound up rushing guys at 18. It didn't really pan out.

I don't see the point in bringing in an 18 year old unless they're truly elite and ready. We're rebuilding. What's the rush?

I agree with you, but how's Price part of this example?

He played in the playoffs on the way to a Calder Cup when his amateur season was over and nothing after that, if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree with you, but how's Price part of this example?

He played in the playoffs on the way to a Calder Cup when his amateur season was over and nothing after that, if I'm not mistaken?

He was in the minors for two years. We didn't bring him up at 18. I was at that Calder cup game. Success at lower levels is only going to help in the future.

Gainey used to say he wanted players to dominate in the minors so they could learn to dominate in the NHL. I agree with that philosophy.

Connor Bedard on the other hand... I'd probably just play him right away. He's a special case.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not sure what my ego has to do with anything here but... okay.

I don't see the need to rush him do you? The minors were good for Max, PK, Price... I think it helped make them better players. Under MB we wound up rushing guys at 18. It didn't really pan out.

I don't see the point in bringing in an 18 year old unless they're truly elite and ready. We're rebuilding. What's the rush?

Price only played in the minors for the end of his junior year and for a few games in his rookie season (not the start). They then traded huet before the end of his rookie season. But he was picked 5th.

The other two were picked 22nd and 45th - it is rare anyone makes the NHL right away from those draft ranks.

Again, I'm not saying RB MUST start in Montreal. I'm saying it is normal he is invited to camp and shows what he can do at this point. I'm also saying they should not eliminate Laval as an option, especially if time and space is what the brass decides he needs to work on

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price only played in the minors for the end of his junior year and for a few games in his rookie season (not the start). They then traded huet before the end of his rookie season. But he was picked 5th.

The other two were picked 22nd and 45th - it is rare anyone makes the NHL right away from those draft ranks.

He wasn’t brought up right away. He won the Calder cup and was brought up after. Drafted in 05 and didn’t play in the NHL until 2007. The other guys spent more time and it helped in both cases. And it helped with other prospects as well.

Again, I'm not saying RB MUST start in Montreal. I'm saying it is normal he is invited to camp and shows what he can do at this point. I'm also saying they should not eliminate Laval as an option, especially if time and space is what the brass decides he needs to work on

Laval is one thing, NHL another. I just don’t want to see us hurrying him along.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He wasn’t brought up right away. He won the Calder cup and was brought up after. Drafted in 05 and didn’t play in the NHL until 2007. The other guys spent more time and it helped in both cases. And it helped with other prospects as well.

Laval is one thing, NHL another. I just don’t want to see us hurrying him along.

OK for other non-first picks, such as Eichel, B. Tkachuk, Stutzle, Svechnikov, Monahan, M. Tkachuk and many others.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

OK for other non-first picks, such as Eichel, B. Tkachuk, Stutzle, Svechnikov, Monahan, M. Tkachuk and many others.

I'm just not a fan of it. I'd rather they spend development time.

 

[Michelangelo]

I agree with you, but how's Price part of this example?

He played in the playoffs on the way to a Calder Cup when his amateur season was over and nothing after that, if I'm not mistaken?

Price had a full two seasons in junior (2005-06, 2006-07) after getting drafted in 2005 before appearing in the 2007 Calder Cup Playoffs

I am not saying that Reinbacher has to follow the same trajectory, just merely stating facts

OK for other non-first picks, such as Eichel, B. Tkachuk, Stutzle, Svechnikov, Monahan, M. Tkachuk and many others.

Interestingly enough, none of the players you named play defense

 

[BaseballCoach]

He wasn’t brought up right away. He won the Calder cup and was brought up after. Drafted in 05 and didn’t play in the NHL until 2007. The other guys spent more time and it helped in both cases. And it helped with other prospects as well.

Laval is one thing, NHL another. I just don’t want to see us hurrying him along.

Me neither - if he is not ready. But do you want to hold him back no matter how well he is doing?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Price had a full two seasons in junior (2005-06, 2006-07) after getting drafted in 2005 before appearing in the 2007 Calder Cup Playoffs

I am not saying that Reinbacher has to follow the same trajectory, just merely stating facts


Interestingly enough, none of the players you named play defense

These non-first pick defencemen all started in the NhL in their D+1:
Doughty, Bogosian, Larsson, Hedman, Hanifin, Chycrun, Drysdale

 

[Rapala]

So you do not believe he will be the 2nd or 3rd best D on the team. I get it. Bu that was not my question. My question was if a young player is very good without yet dominating the NHL (who does anyway? Crosby and 1 or 2 others?), say he is around halfway up the team chart, MUST he go back to play on a larger ice surface right away so that he is locked into two more years outside an NHL he is good enough to play in as a regular now?

Was the word "dominating" unnecessarily strong? Purposely used to drive the conclusion that poster wanted?

I answered that question by what I initially wrote. Reinbacher would need to be a whole heck of a lot better than 2/3rds of our Dmen to make the team. It makes zero sense to graduate this guy. I'm not sure why such a simple reasonable statement caused any controversy. One guy doesn't like my level of conviction and god knows what you are on about. This is about Reinbacher and our team not about some random player on some random team. Switzerland this season and Laval the next is the path I see for this player. Do you think that if Reinbacher is slightly better than say Barron we should promote him? I don't because it is not in our best interest.

 

[dcyhabs]

That isn't how it works and you know it. Just like Beck is likely going back to junior even though he's probably better than some of our current forwards Reinbacher despite being a first round pick is in that same boat. Think about how much better he'd have to be for management to pull the trigger on a move like that. Seider spent two years honing his craft before graduating. Nothing Reinbacher has done suggests he's two developmental years ahead of where Moritz was. Use some logic man.

Is Beck better now or will he be better later but not now? Is that first NHL year at 18 or 19 where even good 1OA picks look at best just OK really useful? Beck is likely to be good eventually but he showed last year he wasn’t ready.

I don’t think Slaf should have been in the NHL last year and I hope they send Reinbacher back to Kloten.

The habs management really seem to think it makes them look better if guys play early. I’d prefer that they get the most out of picks in the longer term.

 

[Rapala]

Is Beck better now or will he be better later but not now? Is that first NHL year at 18 or 19 where even good 1OA picks look at best just OK really useful? Beck is likely to be good eventually but he showed last year he wasn’t ready.

I don’t think Slaf should have been in the NHL last year and I hope they send Reinbacher back to Kloten.

The habs management really seem to think it makes them look better if guys play early. I’d prefer that they get the most out of picks in the longer term.

I think Beck is a better hockey player right now than Jake Evans. Dvorak may still have an edge on him but not by a heck of a lot. I have to believe Rob Ramage when he says Beck is coming to camp with the idea of making the team. The one thing he can't overcome is experience which is also a factor in Reinbacher's case. I got the same impression with Beck last camp as I had with Ghule the previous camp. Someone who could make our team out of camp the next season. The numbers simply don't work for him at this point which again is exactly the same in Reinbacher's case. Far too many players under contract between both players and their goals.

 

[ReHabs]

Is Beck better now or will he be better later but not now? Is that first NHL year at 18 or 19 where even good 1OA picks look at best just OK really useful? Beck is likely to be good eventually but he showed last year he wasn’t ready.

I don’t think Slaf should have been in the NHL last year and I hope they send Reinbacher back to Kloten.

The habs management really seem to think it makes them look better if guys play early. I’d prefer that they get the most out of picks in the longer term.

Habs management seem to think they've re-invented the wheel. With Adam 'KPI' Nicholas on board they think their shit doesn't stink and they have cracked the code. The arrogance to think no other pro hockey team knows development like these guys know development... well, let's just wait and see, I guess.

I hope they've learned something from last year's experience but Reinbacher might really be one of the six or seven best d-men in the organization during training camp -- and they might miss the forest for the trees and actually keep him in Montreal and with the big team. Like I said in an earlier comment, Reinbacher is both a better a prospect and more polished as a player than Slafkovsky. If they 'had a gameplan' for Slafkovsky there is no reason to think they don't have a similar one for Reinbacher. In this case we will see soon enough, maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.

What I'm afraid to see, in general, is the Habs pumping their development team's tires while they quietly ignore their unsuccessful projects like eg. Norlinder. Because if a development team is radically good to the point it merits radically different methods of deploying young players, they should show results with all sorts of players not just the uber-talented ones. Have Mysak or Mesar improved? Condotta? Norlinder? I don't know.

 

[nhlfan9191]

We actually don't know if it was a mistake yet.

The term "rushed" is loaded with a pre-conceived conclusion.

Does anyone say that Brady Tkachuk was "rushed" to the NHL after a previous season of just 8 goals in 40 games in the NCAA?

Brady Tkachuk showed he belonged in the NHL his rookie season after making the team. Slafkovsky didn’t. The comparison doesn’t really make sense unless you’re debating someone who thinks Slafkovsky didn’t deserve a chance to make the team at all. It should’ve been obvious from last training camp that he wasn’t ready for the NHL beyond that point.

 

[Jaynki]

That isn't how it works and you know it. Just like Beck is likely going back to junior even though he's probably better than some of our current forwards Reinbacher despite being a first round pick is in that same boat. Think about how much better he'd have to be for management to pull the trigger on a move like that. Seider spent two years honing his craft before graduating. Nothing Reinbacher has done suggests he's two developmental years ahead of where Moritz was. Use some logic man.

Genuinely asking,


Who do you believe Beck is better than?

 

[Jaynki]

I think Beck is a better hockey player right now than Jake Evans. Dvorak may still have an edge on him but not by a heck of a lot. I have to believe Rob Ramage when he says Beck is coming to camp with the idea of making the team. The one thing he can't overcome is experience which is also a factor in Reinbacher's case. I got the same impression with Beck last camp as I had with Ghule the previous camp. Someone who could make our team out of camp the next season. The numbers simply don't work for him at this point which again is exactly the same in Reinbacher's case. Far too many players under contract between both players and their goals.

Respectfully, but i think you are underestimating the step between the CHL and the AHL, and then the step between the AHL and the NHL. And obviously the megastep between the CHL and the NHL.

I think both Evans and Dvorak would completely obliterate Beck opposition in the CHL. I think Beck has terrific potential, attitude and attributes. It remains to be seen at camp, but it's a stretch right now to label him better than Evans and especially Dvorak.

 

[Jaynki]

Habs management seem to think they've re-invented the wheel. With Adam 'KPI' Nicholas on board they think their shit doesn't stink and they have cracked the code. The arrogance to think no other pro hockey team knows development like these guys know development... well, let's just wait and see, I guess.

I hope they've learned something from last year's experience but Reinbacher might really be one of the six or seven best d-men in the organization during training camp -- and they might miss the forest for the trees and actually keep him in Montreal and with the big team. Like I said in an earlier comment, Reinbacher is both a better a prospect and more polished as a player than Slafkovsky. If they 'had a gameplan' for Slafkovsky there is no reason to think they don't have a similar one for Reinbacher. In this case we will see soon enough, maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.

What I'm afraid to see, in general, is the Habs pumping their development team's tires while they quietly ignore their unsuccessful projects like eg. Norlinder. Because if a development team is radically good to the point it merits radically different methods of deploying young players, they should show results with all sorts of players not just the uber-talented ones. Have Mysak or Mesar improved? Condotta? Norlinder? I don't know.

Why do you think Reinbacher is a better and more polished prospect than Slafkovksy?

I have tried arguing that Reinbacher was at least as good if not better than Nemec and Jiricek in their DY and it was not well received.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I like that Habs intend Reinbacher to play in Europe this year. Let him mature, get lots of ice time and work on his offence a bit. Then see what happens next year.

Let prospects mature fully before bringing them up! One of the reasons I think guys like Roy, Heineman etc. will do well once they make the big team. Lots of develop never hurt anyone.

 

[Jaynki]

I like that Habs intend Reinbacher to play in Europe this year. Let him mature, get lots of ice time and work on his offence a bit. Then see what happens next year.

Let prospects mature fully before bringing them up! One of the reasons I think guys like Roy, Heineman etc. will do well once they make the big team. Lots of develop never hurt anyone.

Its true but sometimes development is better in the NHL than in lesser league.

Its not as simple as being in a lesser league = good development.

For example, Jack Hughes, he was not ready in his 1st year, but i also think he would have lost his times in the NCAA. Also, struggling in his 1st year has not forbidden him from becoming a mega star.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Its true but sometimes development is better in the NHL than in lesser league.

Its not as simple as being in a lesser league = good development.

For example, Jack Hughes, he was not ready in his 1st year, but i also think he would have lost his times in the NCAA. Also, struggling in his 1st year has not forbidden him from becoming a mega star.

It depends on the coaching and the opportunity given. If a prospect can get quality minutes and a coach who doesn't punish them for making mistakes, then it can work for elite level players. On the flip side, even if they get minutes and no reprimand for mistakes, it can still be a very humbling experience and hurt their confidence if they aren't on that level yet. So while top 5 picks, as an example, may be able to develop in the NHL, there are far more examples of players developing more completely in lower leagues while the hone in their game and gain confidence before being thrown into the best league in the world. I'd say players that jump into the league at 18, like Hughes are more the exception to the rule and not the norm.

*Edit* And on cue:


Edit No. 2. It's like I'm reading his mind LOL:

 

[Deebs]

I like that Habs intend Reinbacher to play in Europe this year. Let him mature, get lots of ice time and work on his offence a bit. Then see what happens next year.

Let prospects mature fully before bringing them up! One of the reasons I think guys like Roy, Heineman etc. will do well once they make the big team. Lots of develop never hurt anyone.

Absolutely and it would be terrific if Slaf could go play 18 minutes a night in Laval this year. Put him on the top line with Roy and whoever.....let them mesh all year

 

[Sterling Archer]

Absolutely and it would be terrific if Slaf could go play 18 minutes a night in Laval this year. Put him on the top line with Roy and whoever.....let them mesh all year

They should've done that last year IMO. I think it's too late for that now and given his supposed strong off season, I think he'll be on the big team this year. Hope he does get quality time and continues to develop as we all hope.