Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Twisted Sinister]

This was literally my first post on the subject, my argument didn't morph into something else. What you got was both initial and final: regional scout don't matter one bit for high profile prospects. And no one that matter saw him live this year.

If some random KHL/MHL/VHL dude emerge as a star from this draft, then we can talk about the regional scout, because his job IS to ID those random dude from the KHL/MHL/VHL.

Michkov is random? Not the guy that people have had as 1B with Bedard for pretty much their entire hockey careers? Ok then.

As to your other point, regional scouting is important because HUGHES HIMSELF said oen of the reasons we didn't go for Michkov was an inability to see him in person. Seems kind of incompetent to me.

Agree for the most part. We won the lottery on a year, where there was NO concensus #1
This year, we were in the mix, but needed to be in the top 4 and just missed....

Assuming you wanted Michkov? Is that what this, is really all about?

Well, of course. When you have the option, you draft talent. You don't go into Windows safe mode like the limp (expletive) they are.

I would have accepted a lot of things. Trading down... Drafting Leonard would have annoyed me, but not to this extent. Them drafting of the safest, most boring player combined with the baffling Newhook move is what really ground my gears (in combination with the last 30 years of course). The Slaf pick was strike 1 last year as well. I had him 6th on my list for his braindead hockey IQ.

In addition:
-I don't trust this drafting team. Bobrov has no history of success and sound like an egotistical moron... and Lapointe is from the Bicep club.

-They screwed up the tank this year, trying desperately to win random games in January for "tHe CuLtUrE." This is all on them, and they deserve whatever failure they get.


Their organizational philosophy seems to be continuing from previous regimes and seems to align with what someone like @Goldenhands wants. It is, however, the opposite of what I want.

This looks like it's headed for perpetual Bubble City.

 

[OnTheRun]

Michkov is random? Not the guy that people have had as 1B with Bedard for pretty much their entire hockey careers? Ok then.

Michkov was a high profile prospect, hence why the regional scout don't play a role here.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Michkov was a high profile prospect, hence why the regional scout don't play a role here.

I added some stuff with an edit, feel free to comment.

 

[ZUKI]

Iets say Reinbacher is an amazing learner, and he learns from Hutson and MSL to become a offensive dynamo while being amazing on the defensive side of things . Would just be hilarious to watch every hab fan change their perspective and act like they wanted this pick lol.

nah , that kind of opinion twist has never happened here . It would be a premiere

 

[DinosaurBones]

As the days go by and the more I watch and look at future and stuff like that the more I like the pick. I was iffy at first but not to the extend of most but now I like it. Any one else on that page or is everyone who was initially upset, still upset? Genuinely curious

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Excellence goes beyond just skills. Better off with a Crosby with solid character than another Uber-talented player who doesn't play for the team. Ovechkin was never winning unless he became a team player like he did for an entire season, the one where WASH won the Cup.

All you are presenting is a belief that the one-dimensional, smallish Michkov, who has no care in the world for defensive play, is the ultimate cat's meow, right or wrong and, worse, that anyone who doesn't agree with you only seeks mediocrity.

What a piss ant narrative, really.

What a nonsense post. Lolol.

 

[OnTheRun]

I added some stuff with an edit, feel free to comment.

Scouting a prospect like Michkov isn't the regional scout job, I'll come back to that later. When Hughes is talking about seeing Michkov live he's talking about the higher up, head scout and above (Lapointe, Bobrov, Hughes and Gorton.) because they are the one directly involved in scouting high profile guy.

The regional scout main job is to scout the more obscure guys in his region, ID talents then report to the crossover scout who will check if whether or not the regional scout is on to something, then the crossover scout will report to the chief European scout then it will eventually go all the way up to the head scout if the talent is worth it.

 

[ZUKI]

Where’s the quick learner tab from? Or is that a deduction based on quickly he evolved in the last year? Regardless, being coachable and smart is a non-negligible combo.

Coaches that were amazed by his progressions .
His mother also told that he was a quick learner ; walking, talking and doing his stuff alone in the toilet

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Well you were oblivious to what the goalposts look like, so not sure how you can tell if it moved or not.

I'll repeat just to be crystal on this, regional scout don't call the shot on a pick that high in the draft. No ifs, no buts.

No one said they did. They do ms me recommendations and plead their case or they shouldn’t be on the staff, no ifs, no butts. Where are these ridiculous arguments coming from?

 

[OnTheRun]

No one said they did. They do ms me recommendations and plead their case or they shouldn’t be on the staff, no ifs, no butts. Where are these ridiculous arguments coming from?

The answer just happen to be 2 posts above... Prospect Info: - [2023 - 5th OA] David Reinbacher (NL - EHC Kloten)

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Yep. It's not enough to just look at raw numbers, which is what a lot of people have done with Michkov. The truth is the KHL is not as strong recently due to the war and a lot of western players leaving Russia in favour of other European leagues. And it's often dismissed as nothing but 40% of Michkov's points came in 2 games again a horrible team with a horrible goalie (literally had like a 9.00 GAA). His numbers are still impressive taking those 2 games out but 12 points in 25 games isn't the same as 20 points in 27 games.

Michkov cheat skating the blue line, in his league he can take profit of bad teams in defense, the team can boots Mich numbers by his use. As my russian or ukrainian friends told me everything important is runned mafia style in russia. If they want a single player have numbers a la Gretzky, they can do it. Michkov didn't passed my eyes test because what I saw from opposite teams it sucks badly. Goalies let softies and the d doesn't touch anyone. It's not like what's happening in nhl. His fancy cuts to the net in offensive zone will meet real D from the nhl. And also he never checks back. No coach in nhl will allow this.

 

[Gillings]

The jury is still out on Wright/Slafkovsky and neither have impressed.

But yeah the need for elite scoring is something really basic that has been missing for years and years.

Management have been saying they want to build on speed and offence… but they draft the big guy and go for defence.

Unless they want to tank more (which is not the impression I have of the plan and is also probably not possible since all the kids are getting better) the will probably look for a good goaltender next. Which brings us to winning games with defence instead of offence.

We just drafted a good tender, Jakob Fowler.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Coaches that were amazed by his progressions .
His mother also told that he was a quick learner ; walking, talking and doing his stuff alone in the toilet

Ah this is in the chords of my personal preferences. A guy that learned fast how to be clean. If he did it at age 1 and an half, this is a genious we must have with us. That never lie. A fast clean guy is on top of a pedegree. At least if he' a bust with hockey, he will never smell bad and that makes life more enjoyable.

 

[Jaynki]

I don't think there is any evidence to support that they didn't think highly of his offensive ability and perhaps people are over complicating this. There were just too many things outside of his elite offensive ability that they did not feel comfortable with and the overall rating that they gave him was lower than Reinbacher's because there were less negatives with Reinbacher's game to bring his overall grade down.

We know that Reinbacher was exactly #5 on their list as they admitted to inquiring about moving up which would have been to get one of the 3 centers. I am not sure where Michkov was on their list but I think they would have also taken Dvorsky or Leonard ahead of him and possibly even Wood as well. There was just too much uncertainty for a risk averse manager like Hughes but I don't doubt that he believed Michkov to be an elite offensive talent.

On what do you base your claim that Hughes is a risk averse manager? So far, it looks like the complete opposite to me.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Their entire internet content is 6 vhs tapes I think. Orange is one of the few colors you can still make out and this is how dreams are made.




Just saw this is the Reinbacher thread. Why are we poluting his thread talking about a Flyer?

A flyer is a fast made publicity junk filled with ugly colors announcing a lot of things like meat and diswasher soap on the same page. It's folded to have 4 pages.
Also and only lonely old ladies use it.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

We just drafted a good tender, Jakob Fowler.

This is a good about this draft. Maybe we drafted our future no1 goalie. I beleive he can do it. We'll see in 4 years.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

On what do you base your claim that Hughes is a risk averse manager? So far, it looks like the complete opposite to me.

It is just a reference to doing his due diligence with his research before acquiring a player. He is very careful about the personalities and character of the players that he brings into the organization. Gurianov was the only real question mark but it was all that he could get for Dadanov.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Scouting a prospect like Michkov isn't the regional scout job, I'll come back to that later. When Hughes is talking about seeing Michkov live he's talking about the higher up, head scout and above (Lapointe, Bobrov, Hughes and Gorton.) because they are the one directly involved in scouting high profile guy.

The regional scout main job is to scout the more obscure guys in his region, ID talents then report to the crossover scout who will check if whether or not the regional scout is on to something, then the crossover scout will report to the chief European scout then it will eventually go all the way up to the head scout if the talent is worth it.

That is true most years but with the war regional scouts would indeed be the primary evaluators of Michkov's game.

 

[jrom]

The KHL was the second best league in the world, but a case can be made it's no longer second best; because of the international players' exile! Even before the war, the talent had started to drop off, possibly due to Russia's declining economy, bad appeal and other irregularities. On Knuckles' podcast, Wideman even stated games were occasionaly fixed! Nowadays, NHL journeyman such as Wideman don't bolster the level of competition anymore. Believe it or not, but that's the narrative!

Agreed, Chris Wideman was named the KHL top defender of the year in 2020-2021…

 

[OnTheRun]

That is true most years but with the war regional scouts would indeed be the primary evaluators of Michkov's game.

Not sure about primary since video scouting got normalized with the pandemic, he would have been an extra voice in the room tho.

 

[waffledave]

I'm not super deep into politics, but I don't think it's illegal to hire a contractor in Russia atm? Lots of platforms let you hire people there I believe, so I don't think hiring there is an issue.

Do no teams have Russian scouts right now? I find that hard to believe.

We closed all our Russian offices because we couldn't easily get money there to pay the workers or rent.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Scouting a prospect like Michkov isn't the regional scout job, I'll come back to that later. When Hughes is talking about seeing Michkov live he's talking about the higher up, head scout and above (Lapointe, Bobrov, Hughes and Gorton.) because they are the one directly involved in scouting high profile guy.

The regional scout main job is to scout the more obscure guys in his region, ID talents then report to the crossover scout who will check if whether or not the regional scout is on to something, then the crossover scout will report to the chief European scout then it will eventually go all the way up to the head scout if the talent is worth it.

Again, Hughes himself said that not being able to scout him in person made them wary. This is actually a valid point because it makes it difficult to see what a player is doing away from the puck when the camera isn't on them.

This would indeed be regional scouts doing this kind of thing, so, if you'll forgive me, you're out to lunch on this particular point.

We closed all our Russian offices because we couldn't easily get money there to pay the workers or rent.

So I ask again, why do other teams still have Russian scouts in place?

On what do you base your claim that Hughes is a risk averse manager? So far, it looks like the complete opposite to me.

Was this directed at me? It says you replied to EP but I got the notification. Maybe you said something mean and then thought better of it

Anyway, I'll answer you just the same: You're right in that he's not risk averse about pissing off fans/paying customers. The Canadiens organization is totally fine doing that because they think the addicts will keep coming back no matter what. Where the organization is risk-averse is in betting on talent.

Instead, they always bet on safety, defense, and KarAkTeR (now KuLtUrE). Same organizational philosophy as always. And it'll crash and burn just like it always does.

I've said before that this team is run like a publicly-traded corporation rather than a hockey team that wants to present a compelling product or, God forbid, win cups. That's the best analogy I can give.

 

[Jaynki]

It is just a reference to doing his due diligence with his research before acquiring a player. He is very careful about the personalities and character of the players that he brings into the organization. Gurianov was the only real question mark but it was all that he could get for Dadanov.

It demonstrates process and planification.

It has nothing to do with risk aversion.

We want Hughes to take risk, but we want him to take favourable, asymmetrical, so educated risk.

So far, he has both showed a plan, a vision (the caracter you highlights, type of personalities for example) and the ability to take risk and potentially high upside bet.

The jury is still out tho.

 

[OnTheRun]

Again, Hughes himself said that not being able to scout him in person made them wary. This is actually a valid point because it makes it difficult to see what a player is doing away from the puck when the camera isn't on them.

This would indeed be regional scouts doing this kind of thing, so, if you'll forgive me, you're out to lunch on this particular point.

Nope it wouldn't be.

But let's say for the sake of the argument that had delegated everything Michkov to the regional scout. Then the problem would be the same.

Since the top brass was able to see everyone they were considering at 5 live, except Michkov, who was only seen live by an entry-level scout.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

It demonstrates process and planification.

It has nothing to do with risk aversion.

We want Hughes to take risk, but we want him to take favourable, asymmetrical, so educated risk.

So far, he has both showed a plan, a vision (the caracter you highlights, type of personalities for example) and the ability to take risk and potentially high upside bet.

The jury is still out tho.

Let's not play word games here, the "process and planification" are geared to minimize risk so to say that it has nothing to do with risk aversion is preposterous. He could just as easily have a process built on consistently prioritizing offensive upside regardless of character and defensive flaws over safer but more well rounded players which would be risk inclined behaviour.

I didn't say that he won't take risks but they will be very calculated and he will be patient when faced with risk as opposed to being cavalier. I suspect that we both agree on this but semantics have come to the forefront here.

Passing on Michkov was absolutely risk averse behaviour as was selecting Reinbacher. I am not using the term "risk averse" to criticize these decisions but to simply point out that he is very protective of the culture that he is building and will make unpopular decisions with the fanbase in order to preserve and nurture it. I am just an interested observer of this process and am not upset like many are but I am curious to see how all of this pans out.

You are correct about the jury still being out which is why I am avoiding the hot takes and emotionally charged responses to recent events.