Dale Weise

googlymoogly

Registered User
Oct 27, 2007
11,491
1,209
If you think you can judge a player's "hands" relative to anyone by points, I'll file your hockey insight next to what my cat left in the box this morning.

Most of posting re: Diaz involved defending what Diaz actually did on the ice in the face of the "experts" who suggested he wouldn't (and/or shouldn't) even be in the NHL right now. So far, Weise seems to be worth it, and that's good. Literally no one expected that he'd be playing a larger role for us than Ryan White at this point, and those are surprises no one minds. Somewhat ironically, Diaz looked about as out of place when asked to play above his role/ability as a top 4 defensemen as Weise looks playing above his role/ability as a top 6 forward.
Weise strenghtened our bottom six and has played better for us than Diaz. Diaz is not good enough for our top 6 Dmen right now. Now some think they could get a better return for Diaz but if you have no contact with other GMs how can you know what was offered.

Who can Diaz displace from our defense right now?
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
11
Halifax
Weise strenghtened our bottom six and has played better for us than Diaz. Diaz is not good enough for our top 6 Dmen right now. Now some think they could get a better return for Diaz but if you have no contact with other GMs how can you know what was offered.

Who can Diaz displace from our defense right now?

Don't know about that. Weise has played 53 games with us as a 10-11 minute bottom 6 player. At roughly the same point, Diaz was a ~19 minute/night top 4 defenseman playing both sides of special teams. Now, is Weise better suited to his role than Diaz was to that one? Certainly; part of what makes him a better fit with what we've got (especially as we get softer and more skilled). And the way he's playing he's less likely to get squeezed out of a 4th line role by players coming up behind him than Diaz was as a top 4 D with us. Overall I'm pleased about it now in retrospect (and I think Dutch Gretzky jokes are super fun), but let's not get crazy.

The only person I might replace with Diaz right now is Weaver (who is a bunch of same same but different at a slightly higher price), but there's no room for either guy on our team moving forward, which is a good thing, and why I don't give it much thought anymore.
 

Mr. Hab

Registered User
Nov 17, 2004
6,704
0
Montreal
It saddens me when there are still Hab fans that really really underrate Weise. Why? He's so cheap and so good, and even when he doesn't score he's full of heart (and he's an awesome playoff warrior). I want to see us win a CUP with Weise.


Prust:
amazing 4th liner (one of the best in the league)...good leader...good team player...great policeman...and can sometimes play well on the 3rd line.

Weise:
has way more speed/talent/vision/passing skills/anticipation/better shot/finish VS Prust, hence why Weise can sometimes play on any line. This is one of the rare times I agree with Therrien...Weise can play well with almost any player (sometimes on the 1st and 2nd, great on 3rd, too good for 4th, imo). Speed, passing, underrated shot, underrated hockey sense,etc.

I wish we could take some of that money from PA Parenteau, Emelin and Gilbert and give it to Weise!! Weise does way more for our Habs VS Emelin, Gilbert and Parenteau. Parenteau's bread and butter is the shootout, but in playoffs...there are no shootouts!

Dale Weise is our poor man's version of Wayne Simmonds and Claude Lemieux. Of course he should sometimes play on the 1st, 2nd, and is a perfect fit for the 3rd line anytime. Any team that has Weise on their 3rd or 4th is a SOLID SOLID TEAM, imo.


Pacioretty-Pleks-Weise
Galchenyuk-DD-Gallagher/Weise
Sekac-Eller-Parenteau/Weise
Prust-Malhotra-Bournival/Weise

I'd give him an extra TWO years...right now.
($2mil/year or more X two years).
 
Last edited:

Spearmint Rhino

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
9,295
9,299
It saddens me when there are still Hab fans that really really underrate Weise. Why? He's so cheap and so good, and even when he doesn't score he's full of heart (and he's an awesome playoff warrior). I want to see us win a CUP with Weise.


Prust:
amazing 4th liner (one of the best in the league)...good leader...good team player...great policeman...and can sometimes play well on the 3rd line.

Weise:
has way more speed/talent/vision/passing skills/anticipation/better shot/finish VS Prust, hence why Weise can sometimes play on any line. This is one of the rare times I agree with Therrien...Weise can play well with almost any player (sometimes on the 1st and 2nd, great on 3rd, too good for 4th, imo). Speed, passing, underrated shot, underrated hockey sense,etc.

I wish we could take some of that money from PA Parenteau, Emelin and Gilbert and give it to Weise!! Weise does way more for our Habs VS Emelin, Gilbert and Parenteau. Parenteau's bread and butter is the shootout, but in playoffs...there are no shootouts!

Dale Weise is our poor man's version of Wayne Simmonds and Claude Lemieux. Of course he should sometimes play on the 1st, 2nd, and is a perfect fit for the 3rd line anytime. Any team that has Weise on their 3rd or 4th is a SOLID SOLID TEAM, imo.


Pacioretty-Pleks-Weise
Galchenyuk-DD-Gallagher/Weise
Sekac-Eller-Parenteau/Weise
Prust-Malhotra-Bournival/Weise

I'd give him an extra TWO years...right now.
($2mil/year or more X two years).

I bet there was a post like this in tribute to Moen back in 2012

The problem I find with Weise & Prust and the same with Moen is they stop doing what makes them successful after a few games up on the top lines and then they play like crap for a few games back on the 4th cause they think they don't belong there

I'm more than happy to eat crow when Weise has a good game like he did against the Isles, I just don't see him play consistently at that level enough to justify him being on our 1st line
 

Mr. Hab

Registered User
Nov 17, 2004
6,704
0
Montreal
I bet there was a post like this in tribute to Moen back in 2012

The problem I find with Weise & Prust and the same with Moen is they stop doing what makes them successful after a few games up on the top lines and then they play like crap for a few games back on the 4th cause they think they don't belong there

I'm more than happy to eat crow when Weise has a good game like he did against the Isles, I just don't see him play consistently at that level enough to justify him being on our 1st line

How many 3-4mil/year players we have that are consistent?
(Parenteau??!! PA Parenteau without the shootouts...sometimes looks like an AHLer).

I was a fan of Moen (first 2 seasons as a Hab...true warrior, but all that policeman work and hard physical play took a tool on his body...he gave a lot to our Habs).

But, Weise has more talent VS Moen and Prust, imo.
Weise>>Prust>=Moen

Weise doesn't have to play on the 1st line forever, but he can definitely do a good job for a few games (or more). Same for the 2nd line. And, he's definitely a solid 3rd liner, and sometimes way too good for the 4th.

We don't have many tall/big/gritty/talented right-wingers (ex: Wayne Simmonds)...hence why Therrien is being smart in using Weise on many lines...to balance the lines, spread the wealth. I can't stand a one line team. I prefer to spread the wealth...this way we're harder to beat. I'm not a Therrien fan, but I love it when tries Weise on any line...ANY LINE.
Forever? Probably not, but Weise gives us more options...I love that.

I'd take another Dale Weise...anyday.

And...just wait for playoffs...Weise is a playoff warrior.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,920
5,821
Montreal
Let Lars center Max for 20 games and we'll see..

While I agree, you should look at the TOI and also realize as much time as Weise spent with Max, he spent with Malhotra probably.

That being said, small sample size and fluctuations happen. Weise is a better complimentary player but not better offensively.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
While I agree, you should look at the TOI and also realize as much time as Weise spent with Max, he spent with Malhotra probably.

That being said, small sample size and fluctuations happen. Weise is a better complimentary player but not better offensively.

and that he have very few points, if any, playing next to Manny...

wouldnt surprise me to see that he got all his points when playing with Patches.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,920
5,821
Montreal
and that he have very few points, if any, playing next to Manny...

wouldnt surprise me to see that he got all his points when playing with Patches.

Yes, but that's the point. Eller has played with Sekac, DD, PAP, etc... who are not at Max's level but clearly superior to Manny. Eller would have same issue playing with Manny.

At a certain point even if Weise got points playing with Pacioretty his average TOI is significantly less and half his games with were Manny whereas Eller has more TOI and all his games had at least one decent winger by his side.

Still, I think Eller is the better player but I think it shows Weise has the drive, speed and size to compliment talented players. He keeps his game significantly more simple than Eller and it pays dividends for him.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Yes, but that's the point. Eller has played with Sekac, DD, PAP, etc... who are not at Max's level but clearly superior to Manny. Eller would have same issue playing with Manny.

At a certain point even if Weise got points playing with Pacioretty his average TOI is significantly less and half his games with were Manny whereas Eller has more TOI and all his games had at least one decent winger by his side.

Still, I think Eller is the better player but I think it shows Weise has the drive, speed and size to compliment talented players. He keeps his game significantly more simple than Eller and it pays dividends for him.

true, but at the same time we see that when used too much on the top 9 he stop producing, he's good in short stints but he doesnt have the skills to play a complementary role on our top 9 on a game to game basis IMO (like Gallagher for example)

and the difference with Eller isnt so much the production as the type of game Eller plays (along the board, behind the net most of the time) isnt one where a player, unless elite, can get a ton of points, it's too demanding to expect consistency (and whoever plays with him). Eller game will have him and his linemates spend lots of time in the opposing zone, and will make it tough for opposing D.
 

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
23,297
14,019
how many points does Weise have when not playing with Patches ??

How many points does anyone have when NOT playing with Patches? How many does Gally or Galchchenyuk have when not playing with Patches?

I hate these arguments. Fact is he IS playing on a line with Patches because he does his job and has been rewarded for it. Not a lot of guys on this team do what he does as consistently as he does it.

He's not a top 6 forward but on most nights, he does a hell of a job impersonating one. If take him of guys like Stewart everyday of the week because he actually plays like he gives a **** every shift. I'll never slam a guy like Weise. Especially when he's putting up numbers as the 3rd wheel on that line.
 

Andy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2008
32,177
16,845
Montreal
At a certain point even if Weise got points playing with Pacioretty his average TOI is significantly less and half his games with were Manny whereas Eller has more TOI and all his games had at least one decent winger by his side.

Weise has spent only 33.69% of his season next to Malholtra at ES.

He has spent another 32.4% in a top 6 role with the following combos:

15.32% with Pacioretty and DD
7.81% with Plekanec and DD
4.97.16% with Plekanec and Sekac
4.42% with Pacioretty and Plekanec

And he he has spent another 16.13% on the 3rd line with:

8.27% with Eller and Bourque.
3.75 with Eller and Sekac.
2.38 with Plekanec and Prust.
1,73 With Eller and Prust.



Just to put that into perspective, Sekac, OTHO, has spent only 19.65% (or around 20% if you count all the instances less than 1% which I have not included because they are so marginal) in a top 6 role with the following combos:

4.91% with Weise and Plekanec.
4.66% with Andrighetto and Plekanec
4.21% with Galchenyuk and Plekanec
3.96% with Prust and Plakenec
1.91% with Pacioretty and DD

In other words, Weise has spent as much time with Pacioretty and Sekac has been given top 6 opportunities.

Also, Eller has spent almost as much time with the blackhole Bourque (25.33% of his season) and Weise has spent with the blackhole Malholtra.

Weise has definitely seized the opportunity, but I don't know if it's sustainable. Ideally, I'd like to see a true top 6 winger alongside Pacioretty and Plekanec. Maybe PAP can slide in there when he comes back (if he fails there, then it should be the end of him). Weise's success there begs the question of how well Sekac would do playing big minutes next to Pacioretty. It's great that Weise gets to be on a 30-35 point pace while playing next to Patches, but perhaps someone else like Sekac would produce even more in that role. For me it's about opportunity cost. I just hope Weise isn't a long-term fixture in the top 6.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
19,985
11,843
Montreal
Most of posting re: Diaz involved defending what Diaz actually did on the ice in the face of the "experts" who suggested he wouldn't (and/or shouldn't) even be in the NHL right now.

In less than a calendar year Diaz has gone from the Habs to the Canucks to the Rangers to the Flames and he's a 7th d-man on a playoff bubble team. In Weise we received a very serviceable player for Diaz so I wish Diaz all the luck in world but I would never accept him on my NHL team even if he wanted to play for free. We won that trade in spades and the fact that we're still talking about this shows me you're still sore about the trade.
 

schnapshot

Mendoza baby
Jan 8, 2015
2,080
2,255
Montreal
In less than a calendar year Diaz has gone from the Habs to the Canucks to the Rangers to the Flames and he's a 7th d-man on a playoff bubble team. In Weise we received a very serviceable player for Diaz so I wish Diaz all the luck in world but I would never accept him on my NHL team even if he wanted to play for free. We won that trade in spades and the fact that we're still talking about this shows me you're still sore about the trade.
We sure won that trade. Diaz has 1 assist in 24 games with the Flames, and he was traded by the Canucks. Meanwhile, Weiser is a true Canadien, is having a great season and was a clutch playoff performer last year. Absolutely love the guy.
 

SirClintonPortis

ProudCapitalsTraitor
Mar 9, 2011
18,782
4,531
Maryland native
Gilbert is basically a bigger Diaz, and we are him paying less than whatever Diaz was probably demanding(3.5-4mil, maybe 3-4 years). It is like Diaz never left; he just became Tom Gilbert in the spot he occupied.
 

JLP

Refugee
Aug 16, 2005
10,706
576
Dale Beast!
We're the smallest team in the NHL we need more Weise.
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
5,061
568
Bedford NS
We were outshot 13-5 with Weise on the ice last night, out-attempted 27-7. That's despite playing with our best two-way center and our best possession-driving winger. He dragged the two of them down that hard.

That horseshoe buried up his ass is going to fall out sooner or later. He does not belong on a first line in this league. Not now, not ever.
 

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