D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[Andrei79]

There's definitely cause for concern based on his 19 year old season production so far. Any Canadiens fans who aren't a bit concerned just aren't being realistic/objective here.

His team is brutal. No one is producing hence his production. Dobson went through the same thing his D+1 before being traded.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

His team is brutal. No one is producing hence his production. Dobson went through the same thing his D+1 before being traded.

Let's compare apples with apples: Dobson was playing in the NHL in his age 19 season. This is Reinbacher's age 19 season.

I really don't get why some of you are so defensive about this. He has not had a good season overall, albeit he has played better of late. It's not the end of the world to admit he has underwhelmed in 2023-24. It's not a death sentence for his career to struggle this season but right now he looks more like a #3 D than a top pairing stud (on a good team).

 

[Andrei79]

Let's compare apples with apples: Dobson was playing in the NHL in his age 19 season. This is Reinbacher's age 19 season.

I really don't get why some of you are so defensive about this. He has not had a good season overall, albeit he has played better of late. It's not the end of the world to admit he has underwhelmed in 2023-24. It's not a death sentence for his career to struggle this season but right now he looks more like a #3 D than a top pairing stud (on a good team).

Don't be disingenuous. They have about 2-3 months age difference compared to their respective draft years: October 25th vs January 7th. Not a year, but less than 3 months, it's completely négligeable and not even worth mentioning in any serious conversation. It was Dobson's D+1 to Reinbachers current D+1. It's literally apples to apples with both playing with brutal teams and their production suffering. Dobson was traded to a contender in January and he magically started producing. If he was on a good team and didn't get injured, it would be cause for concern, but right now there are significant outside variables that are skewing his performance.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Don't be disingenuous. They have about 2-3 months age difference compared to their respective draft years: October 25th vs January 7th. Not a year, but less than 3 months, it's completely négligeable and not even worth mentioning in any serious conversation. It was Dobson's D+1 to Reinbachers current D+1. It's literally apples to apples with both playing with brutal teams and their production suffering. Dobson was traded to a contender in January and he magically started producing. If he was on a good team and didn't get injured, it would be cause for concern, but right now there are significant outside variables that are skewing his performance.

It is worth mentioning. Dobson had a year fewer of competitive hockey compared to Reinbacher. That's how hockey years/birth years work. Dobson was in the NHL in his 19 year old season, Reinbacher is struggling due to injuries/team/stagnation in the Swiss NL in his 19 year old season.

 

[viceroy]

The first 3 letter is the key part here

Joke works better in French.

I really don't get why some of you are so defensive about this. He has not had a good season overall.

Look, kid's been injured this season and he plays on a crummy team. It is what it is. Would it be cool if he overcame? Sure. But I personally agree with what someone earlier posted, I also think he'll turn out into a Hamrlik type Dman.

Also on the plus side we won't have a Spacek type to go with.

 

[Frank Drebin]

There's definitely cause for concern based on his 19 year old season production so far. Any Canadiens fans who aren't a bit concerned just aren't being realistic/objective here.

we are very concerned

 

[David Suzuki]

No one will ever believe me when i say people used to actually watch and analyze players and didn’t rely on production to concern troll on this forum.

Even if you don’t like reinbacher talking about his production in the context of his team being ass seems pretty silly

 

[Hockeyville USA]

No one will ever believe me when i say people used to actually watch and analyze players and didn’t rely on production to concern troll on this forum.

Even if you don’t like reinbacher talking about his production in the context of his team being ass seems pretty silly

Sure, but production indicates likely offensive ceiling. So if you don't progress from a production standpoint, you have to be elite (McDonagh level) defensively to have high end impact in the league. Or be a bone crusher in the open ice, which very few are anymore. Very few have the time to watch everyone, so we go on trends and current/historical data to project.

 

[Cenzo_]

There's definitely cause for concern based on his 19 year old season production so far. Any Canadiens fans who aren't a bit concerned just aren't being realistic/objective here.

Have a look at the point total of his teammates? The team just does not score goals

 

[Hinterland]

Sure, but production indicates likely offensive ceiling. So if you don't progress from a production standpoint, you have to be elite (McDonagh level) defensively to have high end impact in the league. Or be a bone crusher in the open ice, which very few are anymore. Very few have the time to watch everyone, so we go on trends and current/historical data to project.

I haven't checked but from the top of my head I'd say there's one player on the entire roster who didn't regress (statistically) compared to last season. Everybody on the team is scoring less. Because the team is poorly coached. And you still expect the youngest player who is playing defense (not forward where it would be easier) to up his points total? What is he supposed to do? Establish puck possession in the offensive zone all on his own just to then dangle through everybody and score goals? Reinbacher is a kid playing at the highest level in Europe. He's not playing CHL where you can do that sort of stuff if you're really good. Also, his focus is on playing defense this year. Learning how to play against the puck. He proved he can score in his draft season. If he ends up scoring a bit less this season, so be it. It's still very good for a kid playing in a strong league...while holding down a 50% job and not even focusing on hockey much.

The better the league, the more you're depending on your teammates to score. Especially as a defenseman. Reinbacher had a better chance at scoring points if he got more PP icetime but though it's trending upwards he's just 11th on his team in average PP TOI. He leads his team in even strength average TOI though. As he should. He's just so good at even strength...you want him on the ice for as much as possible.

 

[Andrei79]

It is worth mentioning. Dobson had a year fewer of competitive hockey compared to Reinbacher. That's how hockey years/birth years work. Dobson was in the NHL in his 19 year old season, Reinbacher is struggling due to injuries/team/stagnation in the Swiss NL in his 19 year old season.

A 2.5 month age difference is not worth mentioning whatsoever, even more so when they both had the same amount of U20/Junior/Pro seasons before being drafted. Even moreso in the context of COVID. Dobson is a great example: in his D+1, after the same amount of high level hockey, with a 2.5 month age gap, also on a terrible team in a juniors (not a pro euro league), could barely produce 0.5ppg. Magically, he produced and looked amazing after he was traded.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Don't be disingenuous. They have about 2-3 months age difference compared to their respective draft years: October 25th vs January 7th. Not a year, but less than 3 months, it's completely négligeable and not even worth mentioning in any serious conversation. It was Dobson's D+1 to Reinbachers current D+1. It's literally apples to apples with both playing with brutal teams and their production suffering. Dobson was traded to a contender in January and he magically started producing. If he was on a good team and didn't get injured, it would be cause for concern, but right now there are significant outside variables that are skewing his performance.

This would be okay if he was playing excellent and the team just couldn't score, his overall play has not improved from last season whatsoever, and normally you see positive growth in your top-5 draft picks

 

[Andrei79]

This would be okay if he was playing excellent and the team just couldn't score, his overall play has not improved from last season whatsoever, and normally you see positive growth in your top-5 draft picks

Yeah, the play isn't up to par compared to last year, but it's tough to get a sense of how much is the injury/team vs Reinbacher actually regressing or stalling. Put in a different environment, it might be a completely different story. But in a good pro league, defensemen will get hammered on poor teams that miss their assignments and don't score. It's not a level where the base tools (skating, strength, etc) will be enough to carry most U20 players.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Yeah, the play isn't up to par compared to last year, but it's tough to get a sense of how much is the injury/team vs Reinbacher actually regressing or stalling. Put in a different environment, it might be a completely different story. But in a good pro league, defensemen will get hammered on poor teams that miss their assignments and don't score. It's not a level where the base tools (skating, strength, etc) will be enough to carry most U20 players.

I give him a pass until he comes to Laval and I think he will perform better on smaller ice - but the ridiculous overcompensation from Habs fans needs to stop. We don't need to twist our heads trying to rationalize his performance and say he is playing great when it is clear he is not.

 

[Fatass]

I give him a pass until he comes to Laval and I think he will perform better on smaller ice - but the ridiculous overcompensation from Habs fans needs to stop. We don't need to twist our heads trying to rationalize his performance and say he is playing great when it is clear he is not.

Yup. Reinbacher is a D. Unless it’s a Makar or Quinn Hughes then D take a while to figure it out. Give the kid a couple years here in the minors before we write him off as a top four guy. And at worst he’s a solid bottom pairing guy. That’s still pretty good.

 

[Andrei79]

I give him a pass until he comes to Laval and I think he will perform better on smaller ice - but the ridiculous overcompensation from Habs fans needs to stop. We don't need to twist our heads trying to rationalize his performance and say he is playing great when it is clear he is not.

Didn't this whole conversation start asking why his stats were low though ? I'm seeing one poster, whom I've never seen on the Habs forum outside the Reinbacher thread, make these overcompensations. Look at the last three pages and Habs fans seem pretty nuanced even if not in agreement. The context of his team is a significant variable if were looking at his production.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Didn't this whole conversation start asking why his stats were low though ? I'm seeing one poster, whom I've never seen on the Habs forum outside the Reinbacher thread, make these overcompensations. The context of his team is a significant variable if were looking at his production.

Sure the team is a factor.

Reinbacher himself hasn't scored against a goalie this year, no goals in 20 games since his empty netter in the 1st game of the season. That is probably a bigger factor in why his stats are low.

 

[Andrei79]

Sure the team is a factor.

Reinbacher himself hasn't scored against a goalie this year, no goals in 20 games since his empty netter in the 1st game of the season. That is probably a bigger factor in why his stats are low.

He's probably not finishing the numerous chances his 2.1 gpg team is gifting him. The rest of the defense does have 4 total goals combined in these 38 games, so we know its a team fully utilizing the D as scoring threats.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

He's probably not finishing the numerous chances his 2.1 gpg team is gifting him. The rest of the defense does have 4 total goals combined in these 38 games, so we know its a team fully utilizing the D as scoring threats.

He's a top-5 pick, he has to have some ability to get things done himself

This is a league where Daniel Carr is the leading scorer

 

[Andrei79]

He's a top-5 pick, he has to have some ability to get things done himself

This is a league where Daniel Carr is the leading scorer

You know Daniel Carr has dominated the AHL at over a 100 point pace ? That last sentence isn't indicative of you think it is. He needs to work on his goal scoring. McDonagh had to for years as well. He's mostly a passer, in a league where the defense doesn't score much, on a team where the defense as a whole struggles to score. These arent optimal conditions, the opposite really, with an imperfect young defenseman playing in it. I don't think the size, the smarts or the work ethic is gone or has regressed, it would be surprising, but its hard to know until he's put in a better environment. We'll have a better appreciation of what he is when he is.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

You know Daniel Carr has dominated the AHL at over a 100 point pace ? That last sentence isn't indicative of you think it is. He needs to work on his goal scoring. McDonagh had to for years as well. He's mostly a passer, in a league where the defense doesn't score much, on a team where the defense as a whole struggles to score. These arent optimal conditions, the opposite really, with an imperfect young defenseman playing in it. I don't think the size, the smarts or the work ethic is gone or has regressed, it would be surprising, but its hard to know until he's put in a better environment. We'll have a better appreciation of what he is.

I think it is actually the injury that has had a bigger impact on his game rather than the team being bad, his play struggled for a while after coming back and he had his minutes cut significantly. He had a great game recently though where he led the team in ice time so let's just hope he is getting back into top shape

 

[Hinterland]

He's a top-5 pick, he has to have some ability to get things done himself

This is a league where Daniel Carr is the leading scorer

You mean AHL MVP Daniel Carr? Or which one?
You can't do things yourself as a defenseman in a good pro league. On the PP maybe but not at even strength. Hockey is a team sport.

 

[Heffyhoof]

He's a top-5 pick, he has to have some ability to get things done himself

This is a league where Daniel Carr is the leading scorer

Your understanding of prospects and how to project them is massively skewed if you genuinely believe that every top-5 pick needs to be a play-driver regardless of position in a men's league at age 19.

 

[montreal]

 

[montreal]