D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[Mrb1p]

Do we? I'm not sure I agree with that. Even the player himself says in interviews he needs to improve his defense. It's not that he's bad defensively but he's not particularly good for a 5th overall either.

Don't care what he says, he showed he could play defense in Montreal, he showed he could play in the wjc and he showed he could play last year.

It doesn't mean he's a perfect player and of course he still has to get better, but his defense, especially rush defense, is good for his age.

 

[jfhabs]

He's not flashy in the sense that he doesn't do much with the puck on his stick but he's still an offensive player. He loves to join the attack and he's the master of transition. I don't know if there's another defender who can turn defense into offense more quickly than Reinbacher. Surely nobody in his age class can. Reinbacher has an exciting combination of vision and elite passing skills allowing him to do this. He's also very mobile for a big guy. When he takes the puck away from you it's moving the other way before you know it.
He might end up scoring above 0,4 PPG in pro hockey for three seasons straight, two of them on a bad team at the highest level in Europe and with barely any PP points. No kid can do that without elite offensive skills. The only comparable among active NHL defenseman is Rasmus Dahlin. Not gonna say that Reinbacher is gonna be as good as Dahlin but he's got the talent and their draft season was on a similar level.

Ok, that's fair. I think we're mostly seeing and saying the same thing!

 

[Hinterland]

Don't care what he says, he showed he could play defense in Montreal, he showed he could play in the wjc and he showed he could play last year.

It doesn't mean he's a perfect player and of course he still has to get better, but his defense, especially rush defense, is good for his age.

Certainly is. I'm not gonna debate that. But it's not particularly good for a 5th overall and it's not necessarily a strength of his.

 

[Mrb1p]

Certainly is. I'm not gonna debate that. But it's not particularly good for a 5th overall and it's not necessarily a strength of his.

His rush defense is 100% a strength, and you do confuse his risk taking with bad defense, I think, especially in the neutral zone. As for his zone defense, it's tough to argue he's great but it's also very likely his defensive zone play is impacted massively by his own team, defensive break downs are plentiful and the rate at which they take the puck out of the zone is a vector of defensive mistakes.

Someone has to make a play for this f***ing team, honestly.

 

[MS]

When evaluating his defense you have to take into account the strength of his competition relative to his peers.

If he was playing in the CHL he'd look like a defensive monster.

That's not to say he's perfect or that there aren't things he could work on ... but he's basically playing in an AHL+ level league as a teenager against heaps of guys with NHL experience.

 

[montreal]

Do we? I'm not sure I agree with that. Even the player himself says in interviews he needs to improve his defense. It's not that he's bad defensively but he's not particularly good for a 5th overall either.

there's no question he needs to work on his defensive game, I have been saying for some time that the reports on him from the draft seem way off as I liked his offensive game more then he was getting credited for but I was shocked at how many mistakes he was making defensively , some really poor decisions at times.

The injury talk is just an excuse to cope with the terrible stats as many fans scout by stats and to be fair his games are really tough to watch. Whatever game is was last week and Beaulieu lead the team in TOI and I just thought if that's your best D then you are in trouble. I know he said the wrist bothered him more then the knee but it was one injury and it was mid October, he's had 2 1/2 months now.

To not have a single goal with a goalie in net all season is troubling to say the least but at this point the Habs will just have to hope he can show a lot of progress in North America. If it takes a couple years then that's fine by me as it's clear he will easily be an NHLer due to how many NHL level tools he posses but I couldn't for the life of me try to predict what he will be as I'm at a loss to even really understand what his game is as it was sold to me that we got an elite defense shut down D but that's nothing close to what I see. For a guy that's so elite defensively, 3 Head Coaches have opted to almost never use him on the PK as I believe he wasn't used on the PK much last season but I only saw maybe 10 games give or take.

On the other hand you can see how he could turn into something special as he's got NHL size. The skating isn't great but it's not something I see as an issue, the mobility looks to be a strength as is the reach and he's aggressive with his stick and closing gaps. With solid puck moving that alone will get him looks in the NHL but for me he is really tough to try and get a firm read on.

 

[Hinterland]

there's no question he needs to work on his defensive game, I have been saying for some time that the reports on him from the draft seem way off as I liked his offensive game more then he was getting credited for but I was shocked at how many mistakes he was making defensively , some really poor decisions at times.

The injury talk is just an excuse to cope with the terrible stats as many fans scout by stats and to be fair his games are really tough to watch. Whatever game is was last week and Beaulieu lead the team in TOI and I just thought if that's your best D then you are in trouble. I know he said the wrist bothered him more then the knee but it was one injury and it was mid October, he's had 2 1/2 months now.

To not have a single goal with a goalie in net all season is troubling to say the least but at this point the Habs will just have to hope he can show a lot of progress in North America. If it takes a couple years then that's fine by me as it's clear he will easily be an NHLer due to how many NHL level tools he posses but I couldn't for the life of me try to predict what he will be as I'm at a loss to even really understand what his game is as it was sold to me that we got an elite defense shut down D but that's nothing close to what I see. For a guy that's so elite defensively, 3 Head Coaches have opted to almost never use him on the PK as I believe he wasn't used on the PK much last season but I only saw maybe 10 games give or take.

On the other hand you can see how he could turn into something special as he's got NHL size. The skating isn't great but it's not something I see as an issue, the mobility looks to be a strength as is the reach and he's aggressive with his stick and closing gaps. With solid puck moving that alone will get him looks in the NHL but for me he is really tough to try and get a firm read on.

What terrible stats? Again, the lone active NHL defender who scored at the same rate at the same level at the same age is Rasmus Dahlin. Reinbacher's stats are fantastic.

I'd want Reinbacher on the ice at even strength as well. I already explained this many times. He's the master of transition. Nobody else can generate this many quality chances seemingly out of nowhere, nobody can turn defense into offense quicker. That's what he does. Sure, you can use him on special teams and he'll do fine but I'd rather play him 25mins at even strength than having to cut down on that due to special teams. It's at even strength where his qualities move the needle.

 

[Xirik]

Excuse me but has anyone heard a hockey prospect ever say they didn't need to get better? Even in the area's he was drafted for?

 

[Tatar Shots]

When evaluating his defense you have to take into account the strength of his competition relative to his peers.

If he was playing in the CHL he'd look like a defensive monster.

That's not to say he's perfect or that there aren't things he could work on ... but he's basically playing in an AHL+ level league as a teenager against heaps of guys with NHL experience.

The AHL is a significantly better league than the NL.

 

[Hinterland]

Excuse me but has anyone heard a hockey prospect ever say they didn't need to get better? Even in the area's he was drafted for?

Reinbacher says he's happy with his offensive game. Doesn't necessarily mean he can't still improve but he you gotta know where your strengths and weaknesses are and Reinbacher clearly does.

 

[Hinterland]

The AHL is a significantly better league than the NL.

Absolutely not. It's different due to the smaller rinks but it's by no means better than the European top leagues. Just look at Lian Bichsel who dominated in the AHL this season but keeps on struggling in Sweden. Some players do better in the AHL, some do better in Europe. Also, the NL just got significantly better due to allowing more imports and the KHL having issues. If anything, European leagues are more competitive because you can get relegated if you suck. In the AHL, if you suck you suck and nobody cares. You just try again next season.

 

[Fatass]

Absolutely not. It's different due to the smaller rinks but it's by no means better than the European top leagues. Just look at Lian Bichsel who dominated in the AHL this season but keeps on struggling in Sweden. Some players do better in the AHL, some do better in Europe. Also, the NL just got significantly better due to allowing more imports and the KHL having issues.

AHL is s better league. More depth. Just missing the elite younger players. Reinbacher is pretty much playing in a much lesser league than the AHL but a better league than the CHL. Still he’s not an offensively gifted type of pkayer. He’s more an all around kind of guy. If he reaches his ceiling imo he’s a 4 in the nhl.

 

[montreal]

What terrible stats? Again, the lone active NHL defender who scored at the same rate at the same level at the same age is Rasmus Dahlin. Reinbacher's stats are fantastic.

1 goal in an empty net is not what I would call fantastic stats.

 

[schuelma24]

I'm genuinely not trying to be a jerk, I swear - but the Swiss league is better than the AHL? What? Unless I've lost my mind, it's not even on the level of the SHL, much less the AHL.

And 7 points in 21 games is fantastic?

 

[Hinterland]

AHL is s better league. More depth. Just missing the elite younger players. Reinbacher is pretty much playing in a much lesser league than the AHL but a better league than the CHL. Still he’s not an offensively gifted type of pkayer. He’s more an all around kind of guy. If he reaches his ceiling imo he’s a 4 in the nhl.

If anything, AHL depth is worse compared to Europe because as I explained already, you can't get relegated. NHL teams can empty the farm and ice a team of ECHLers in the AHL...nobody cares and nothing happens. Free pushovers. In Europe, every team wants to win because they have to in order to avoid relegation.

I'm genuinely not trying to be a jerk, I swear - but the Swiss league is better than the AHL? What? Unless I've lost my mind, it's not even on the level of the SHL, much less the AHL.

And 7 points in 21 games is fantastic?

Not the Swiss League. The National League.

 

[Tatar Shots]

I'm genuinely not trying to be a jerk, I swear - but the Swiss league is better than the AHL? What? Unless I've lost my mind, it's not even on the level of the SHL, much less the AHL.

And 7 points in 21 games is fantastic?

You’re not going to find anyone else who will argue that the NL is on par or better than the AHL.

 

[schuelma24]

Not the Swiss League. The National League.

... is it not the top Swiss league?

Edit - Ok, I see why you corrected me. My point remains - I've never been under the impression it was on par with the SHL, much less the AHL.

 

[Hinterland]

1 goal in an empty net is not what I would call fantastic stats.

Goals are tough to come by in Europe's top leagues. Reinbacher is a defenseman playing on a team that scores hardly any goals. How many would you expect him to score?

... is it not the top Swiss league?

I don't know what you're talking about...and I don't even know if you are. If you don't have a clue, it's okay to admit it. In this case, please don't quote me or pretend to know anything about European hockey.

 

[Fatass]

If anything, AHL depth is worse compared to Europe because as I explained already, you can't get relegated. NHL teams can empty the farm and ice a team of ECHLers in the AHL...nobody cares and nothing happens. Free pushovers. In Europe, every team wants to win because they have to in order to avoid relegation.



Not the Swiss League. The National League.

I have to disagree. The AHL has depth. It lacks the elite younger guys (especially 18-21) that some Euro leagues have. But really that’s only a couple players. Thinking about this more and imo the AHL is way better than the Euro leagues. A guy like Reinbacher would greatly benefit from pkaying in the A. Imo it’s stunting his developing playing in Europe.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

What terrible stats? Again, the lone active NHL defender who scored at the same rate at the same level at the same age is Rasmus Dahlin. Reinbacher's stats are fantastic.

Seems fishy. Didn't Engstrom score more in the SHL at the same age as Reinbacher in his D+1.

His draft year stats are great but his D+1 stats are nowhere near fantastic

 

[TkachukMyAho]

His upside is a 3-4D. Not what you want out of a high pick like this. He is "good" and projects safely to his upside.

 

[Hinterland]

I have to disagree. The AHL has depth. It lacks the elite younger guys (especially 18-21) that some Euro leagues have. But really that’s only a couple players. Thinking about this more and imo the AHL is way better than the Euro leagues. A guy like Reinbacher would greatly benefit from pkaying in the A. Imo it’s stunting his developing playing in Europe.

No. Again. The AHL isn't a competitive league because only part of the league is trying to win while the rest is icing random ECHLers. You don't get that in Europe where clubs are fighting for their existance. You get demoted, it can lead to years of lower tier hockey or even bankruptcy.

It's different but you can't say it's better and it's certainly not deeper or more competitive. A relegation could make it a lot more competitive but as of now that doesn't exist. Teams can just quit which isn't an option in Europe.

Seems fishy. Didn't Engstrom score more in the SHL at the same age as Reinbacher in his D+1.

His draft year stats are great but his D+1 stats are nowhere near fantastic

They're okay considering the circumstances. Not his finest year but the next two will be more telling.

 

[Hinterland]

You’re not going to find anyone else who will argue that the NL is on par or better than the AHL.

Ever thought about why 90% of AHLers would love to play NL while 90% of NLers would never sign an AHL contract? Swiss players almost always refuse to play AHL and if they do, they tend to leave after a few games. If the AHL was so much better than the NL that wouldn't be the case.

Also, why do you think Lian Bichsel left the AHL for Sweden? If the AHL was such a good league he'd have stayed.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Different concepts suit different players. But Amerks tend to overrate their leagues simply because they don't watch European hockey. As a European, I watch both.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Next Habs fans are going to start blaming the Zamboni drivers in Kloten for Reinbacher's down year and the poor ice quality is the reason for his massive drop in production.

 

[Hinterland]

Next Habs fans are going to start blaming the Zamboni drivers for Reinbacher's down year and the poor ice quality is the reason for his massive drop in production.

Which massive drop?
If you look at Kloten's roster, the only one playing up to his potential is Simic. Pretty much everybody else is underperforming. Since it's largely the same team, that's on coaching. Jeff Tomlinson having to move into an advisory role for health reasons has crippled the team badly.

No ideal circumstances for Reinbacher but it's good to face adversity at a young age. Will only make him stronger.