CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Stumbledore]

This probably doesn’t have much meaning, but seems worthwhile

Lots of things may not have much meaning, but they still make for an interesting read.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[TheLegend]

Lots of things may not have much meaning, but they still make for an interesting read.

Thanks for sharing.

You can see there’s a lot of things the fans feel are going right. But it’s still coming up way short in the optics department. You can see how much the TED vote went down affected them.

As far as how fans are seeing the social media end of it. The Coyotes are going to be damned if they do or don’t no matter what it’s about. That’s just the nature of the beast.

I was in the discord when Craig posed the questions and saw a lot of other responses than the ones Craig put in that blog, and they all follow along the same lines.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Some pretty damning comments. I was impressed with the amount of out-of-market fan responses.

Some very diverse locations.

 

[Stumbledore]

You can see there’s a lot of things the fans feel are going right. But it’s still coming up way short in the optics department. You can see how much the TED vote went down affected them.

As far as how fans are seeing the social media end of it. The Coyotes are going to be damned if they do or don’t no matter what it’s about. That’s just the nature of the beast.

I was in the discord when Craig posed the questions and saw a lot of other responses than the ones Craig put in that blog, and they all follow along the same lines.

Yup, afraid it's long past this stage.

 

[TheLegend]

Yup, afraid it's long past this stage.

15 years of drama tends to wear you down.

One of the reasons why I had to stop looking at it 100% as a fan 14 years ago and focussed on analyzing the process.

 

[MeHateHe]

As far as how fans are seeing the social media end of it. The Coyotes are going to be damned if they do or don’t no matter what it’s about. That’s just the nature of the beast.

Indeed. I've long believed that the best thing for pro hockey in Arizona is a break from the NHL, a reset and then expansion or relocation maybe 10 years down the road. After 15 years of a steady drumbeat of negative news, the smell of failure just won't come off. I would have moved the Arizona franchise to Vegas or Seattle and given the community a breather. The longer this drags on, the longer it's going to take to re-establish the potential for a successful NHL franchise.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Yotes fans don’t deserve no hockey.

 

[Stumbledore]

Yotes fans don’t deserve no hockey.

Yotes fans, for all their faults and shortcomings, still know better than to use a double negative.

 

[TheLegend]

Yotes fans, for all their faults and shortcomings, still know better than to use a double negative.

You missed the sarcasm there.

 

[TheLegend]

Indeed. I've long believed that the best thing for pro hockey in Arizona is a break from the NHL, a reset and then expansion or relocation maybe 10 years down the road. After 15 years of a steady drumbeat of negative news, the smell of failure just won't come off. I would have moved the Arizona franchise to Vegas or Seattle and given the community a breather. The longer this drags on, the longer it's going to take to re-establish the potential for a successful NHL franchise.

Craig’s blog illustrates a lot of the frustration the fans have and if anything good comes out of it (as in the ownership actually takes notice of it) then it’s worth it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Indeed. I've long believed that the best thing for pro hockey in Arizona is a break from the NHL, a reset and then expansion or relocation maybe 10 years down the road. After 15 years of a steady drumbeat of negative news, the smell of failure just won't come off. I would have moved the Arizona franchise to Vegas or Seattle and given the community a breather. The longer this drags on, the longer it's going to take to re-establish the potential for a successful NHL franchise.

If you're a Yotes fan - there's no guarantee of getting another team if the Yotes leave. How long as Seattle been waiting to get the Supersonics back? Or Montreal to get the Expos back? Ottawa had to wait 40 years to get the Senators back. Hartford is never getting a team back.

A lot of the problems with the Coyotes would go away if they get a permanent home and start winning (I know, I know - both big ifs). But it's certainly possible.

 

[BMN]

If you're a Yotes fan - there's no guarantee of getting another team if the Yotes leave. How long as Seattle been waiting to get the Supersonics back? Or Montreal to get the Expos back? Ottawa had to wait 40 years to get the Senators back. Hartford is never getting a team back.

A lot of the problems with the Coyotes would go away if they get a permanent home and start winning (I know, I know - both big ifs). But it's certainly possible.

It's similar to the circular argument I see all the time about non-traditional schools' athletic programs (esp. football):

"<Insert name of non-traditional school> is a joke and should shut down their <usually football but occasionally basketball> program. No one on <insert school campus and/or city> cares and it's dragging down <insert name of G5 conference with aspirations probably in-and-of-themselves wholly unrealistic>!"

"Yeah, but the potential!"

"The potential isn't there, no one cares..."

"People will care if the team gets the right coach and marketing."

"That coach/marketer doesn't exist."

"There's no program that can't be turned around by the right marketing and/or the right coach!"

And around and around and around and around and around it goes....

I'm inclined to agree with *both* @Yukon Joe and @MeHateHe : the Yotes leaving and a newer, less-poisonous franchise replacing them is probably the better bet........but as a fan, you're gonna sit there trying to make the most of the cards you've been dealt when you have no guarantee that the dealer won't ever return if they leave the table...

 

[MeHateHe]

I'm inclined to agree with *both* @Yukon Joe and @MeHateHe : the Yotes leaving and a newer, less-poisonous franchise replacing them is probably the better bet........but as a fan, you're gonna sit there trying to make the most of the cards you've been dealt when you have no guarantee that the dealer won't ever return if they leave the table...

I'd love to spend someone else's money and do some market research in the area to see how people really feel about 1) hockey and 2) the NHL and 3) the Coyotes. I'd be curious to tap into the ingrained attitudes toward the league and the club in the market. My guess is that a healthy percentage of the casual sports fans have predominantly heard negative news about the club over the past decade and have internalized a negative perception of the club; that perception is so deeply ingrained that it will always be there.

If that's the case, then it becomes a zero-sum game. Move the team or don't move the team, the result will only be a failed franchse, because they've dug themselves such a deep hole they can never hope to get out of it. They might have flashes of success, but those flashes will not turn into anything long-term because any negative along that path would only reinforce the perception that the team is a dog and the NHL is just associated with failure.

So yeah, if the Coyotes move Phoenix might never get another NHL opportunity. But if my read is correct, the demise of the franchise is an inevitability at this point, because you will never convince the community that this club is worth supporting. Might as well plow under a dead crop and hope that you haven't salted the earth forever.

Or maybe the market research has been done and I'm completely off base. Maybe the conditions that will lead to a successful business operation in Phoenix are about to fully fall into place and the Coyotes will start to emulate the Hurricanes and Panthers.

I feel for the Coyotes fanbase and I'm honestly not cheering for the club to leave. That this continues to drag on with no positive news on the horizon does not bode well.

 

[takimaki]

So yeah, if the Coyotes move Phoenix might never get another NHL opportunity. But if my read is correct, the demise of the franchise is an inevitability at this point, because you will never convince the community that this club is worth supporting. Might as well plow under a dead crop and hope that you haven't salted the earth forever.

You say that if the Yotes leave, the Valley might never get another NHL club again. Is it really that radioactive? Look at the the projected economic growth of the PHX metro area. And besides, wouldn't everyone welcome a completely fresh start with a brand new franchise?

I do get what you're saying about salted earth. Yeah, this has gone on so long that I think that even if they did get an arena deal done, they should STRONGLY consider a complete rebranding. Retire the Coyotes brand and reboot. Do a massive naming contest and get the whole community involved and invested.

 

[MeHateHe]

You say that if the Yotes leave, the Valley might never get another NHL club again. Is it really that radioactive? Look at the the projected economic growth of the PHX metro area. And besides, wouldn't everyone welcome a completely fresh start with a brand new franchise?

Sorry, I was referencing another poster above. Yeah, it's possible, but I don't think it's inevitable.

 

[Headshot77]

I don't think the Coyotes stench is permanent at all. If the franchise landed a Matthews, was a consistent playoff team, had a permanent home, and maybe made the SCF once or twice then all of the bullshit of the last 15 years would be forgotten and the team would be seen as just another NHL franchise.

I understand that is a LOT to ask of a team, but it happens. The current woes of the franchise seems like they are eternal because we are currently living in them. This too shall pass. Although, now that we are a 32 team league you're going to see franchise droughts build up that rival the worst of the MLB. You might see the Yotes go 100 years without a championship like the Cubs did.

 

[TheLegend]

It's similar to the circular argument I see all the time about non-traditional schools' athletic programs (esp. football):

"<Insert name of non-traditional school> is a joke and should shut down their <usually football but occasionally basketball> program. No one on <insert school campus and/or city> cares and it's dragging down <insert name of G5 conference with aspirations probably in-and-of-themselves wholly unrealistic>!"

"Yeah, but the potential!"

"The potential isn't there, no one cares..."

"People will care if the team gets the right coach and marketing."

"That coach/marketer doesn't exist."

"There's no program that can't be turned around by the right marketing and/or the right coach!"

And around and around and around and around and around it goes....

I'm inclined to agree with *both* @Yukon Joe and @MeHateHe : the Yotes leaving and a newer, less-poisonous franchise replacing them is probably the better bet........but as a fan, you're gonna sit there trying to make the most of the cards you've been dealt when you have no guarantee that the dealer won't ever return if they leave the table...

You might be overlooking the fact that during that lull period when the dealer’s gone the table stakes would be climbing exponentially.

So by the time the dearler’s back there won’t be any players willing to sit at the table.

 

[TheLegend]

BTW an update…... The Arizona Land Trust meeting is scheduled for March 14th.

The initial agenda is out but there aren’t any references in it to the land the Meruelo Group is looking at.

But they have up until March 13th (24 hours prior) to add it in.

 

[Stumbledore]

You missed the sarcasm there.

At my age, I miss all sorts of things. Like having joints that work.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Yotes fans, for all their faults and shortcomings, still know better than to use a double negative.

In fairness, a double negative in Spanish is actually correct?

Not that he was typing in Spanish but w/e.

 

[Stumbledore]

In fairness, a double negative in Spanish is actually correct?

Not that he was typing in Spanish but w/e.

Hace muchos años que no hablo español.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Hace muchos años que no hablo español.

Yo tambien.

 

[dj4aces]

BTW an update…... The Arizona Land Trust meeting is scheduled for March 14th.

The initial agenda is out but there aren’t any references in it to the land the Meruelo Group is looking at.

But they have up until March 13th (24 hours prior) to add it in.

IMHO, the Coyotes land seems like exactly the kind of thing that'd get added at the last possible minute.

 

[Roadrage]

BTW an update…... The Arizona Land Trust meeting is scheduled for March 14th.

The initial agenda is out but there aren’t any references in it to the land the Meruelo Group is looking at.

But they have up until March 13th (24 hours prior) to add it in.

So if the land that the Meruelo Group wants doesn't make onto next weeks agenda, do they need to wait another month for the next Arizona Land Trust meeting (I'm guessing it's a monthly meeting). How far back would this push back the timeline for the auction?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

IMHO, the Coyotes land seems like exactly the kind of thing that'd get added at the last possible minute.

My thoughts too. If a high-profile potential owner wants some land on the docket, I'm guessing that there's never much of a rush to add it until the last second.