CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Lions67]

I dunno…. Westgate has grown to the point where it offsets the arena.

Did Westgate give back the 50 million that Glendale had to fork over to keep the team? They paid 25 million twice.
Genuine question I can’t remember if that happened.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm trying to figure out how that's a loaded question. Unless you think "loaded question" just means complex and in need of qualification?

I mean I spelled out the reasons I'm the reply you quoted. You need those details to answer the question that was asked. Otherwise it's like asking if that random car in the parking lot will run for 10 more years.

 

[TheLegend]

Did Westgate give back the 50 million that Glendale had to fork over to keep the team? They paid 25 million twice.
Genuine question I can’t remember if that happened.

Genuine answer.

I'm referring to Westgate generating enough revenues to offset payments on the $120-130 million or so of arena bonds they have to pay off.

That $50 million came from their general reserves which they can spend on anything. Barring any other exotic ventures they decide to get into they will eventually get that back too.

 

[Llama19]

Did Westgate give back the 50 million that Glendale had to fork over to keep the team? They paid 25 million twice.
Genuine question I can’t remember if that happened.

Why would Westgate give back money...
the owner of the franchise...was the NHL...
and I do not think the NHL 'refunded' anything...

City of Glendale made final payment to NHL for Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"In 2013, the city of Glendale agreed to pay the National Hockey League $50 million to keep the Arizona Coyotes while the league ran it."

Source: ktar.com/story/1306220/city-of-glendale-made-final-payment-to-nhl-for-arizona-coyotes/

 

[KevFu]

On Tuesday, a bill in Utah was proposed for a $1.5 billion MLB stadium.
On Friday, a bill in Utah was proposed for a $1.0 billion NBA/NHL arena.

Smith's gone from 5 days behind Miller to three days!

 

[Lions67]

Why would Westgate give back money...
the owner of the franchise...was the NHL...
and I do not think the NHL 'refunded' anything...

City of Glendale made final payment to NHL for Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"In 2013, the city of Glendale agreed to pay the National Hockey League $50 million to keep the Arizona Coyotes while the league ran it."

Source: ktar.com/story/1306220/city-of-glendale-made-final-payment-to-nhl-for-arizona-coyotes/

Cmon Llama, you should have known that this was tongue in cheek lol

 

[aqib]

Glendale only built the arena. Steve Ellman did the rest up until he had to bail from the recession.

Edit…. I’ll add I’m not sure what their planning is for this NE Phoenix site but from what I gather there’s extensive infrastructure work needed and of course what tax mechanisms are involved.

I know it's splitting hairs but did Glendale build it or did Ellman build it then sell it to Glendale?

 

[TheLegend]

I know it's splitting hairs but did Glendale build it or did Ellman build it then sell it to Glendale?

Recalling this from memory so it may not be 100% accurate…..

Glendale provided the funds via $170 millions worth of bonds for Ellman to have it built.

Technically the city owns the arena and the land it sits on. Plus has control over a set number of parking spaces adjacent to the arena.

 

[aqib]

Recalling this from memory so it may not be 100% accurate…..

Glendale provided the funds via $170 millions worth of bonds for Ellman to have it built.

Technically the city owns the arena and the land it sits on. Plus has control over a set number of parking spaces adjacent to the arena.

Do you remember the total cost. For some reason I seem to remember it costing $220 million then Glendale buying it for $180 million.

 

[mouser]

Do you remember the total cost. For some reason I seem to remember it costing $220 million then Glendale buying it for $180 million.

Glendale committed $180m, Ellman was responsible for any cost overages on arena construction. Final arena cost was reported to be $220m. **

** IIRC

 

[TheLegend]

Do you remember the total cost. For some reason I seem to remember it costing $220 million then Glendale buying it for $180 million.

You peeked at the Wiki page didn't you??

To be honest I did too.... tried to click on the link to the supporting article and it looked dead.

May have see if wayback machine can dig it up.

 

[aqib]

You peeked at the Wiki page didn't you??

To be honest I did too.... tried to click on the link to the supporting article and it looked dead.

May have see if wayback machine can dig it up.

No. I remember reading it many years ago. It just kind of stuck in my head.

 

[Llama19]

No. I remember reading it many years ago. It just kind of stuck in my head.

How much sports debt does Glendale still owe? And was it worth it?

Gila River Arena
Year opened: 2003.
City borrowed: $180 million in 2003.
City still owes: $139 million.
Year city debt will be paid off: 2033.

Source (2019): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2019/08/01/gila-river-arena-camelback-ranch-glendale-sports-and-entertainment-district/1868073001/

But...the arena is now leased to ASM...

Glendale to lease Desert Diamond Arena to its longtime management company

To quote:

"Kevin Phelps, Glendale city manager, said the lease payments, which will be paid in four installments, are equal to the appraised value of the arena. ASM Global will have the option to buy the arena after making the lease payments, which will total $33.29 million.

The cost to buy? An additional $10.

The lease is a 20-year term. Should ASM Global choose to continue leasing the property instead of buying it, it has two options to extend an additional 10 years each.

The move, Phelps said, will relieve the city from paying upkeep costs to the arena, which generally range from about $3.5 million to $4 million per year. The arena has about 20 years left for bond payments, so over that time the lease will save the city about $80 million."

Source (2023): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2023/02/15/desert-diamond-arena-glendale-to-be-leased-to-asm-global/69904989007/

However...

Big changes are coming to Desert Diamond Arena: 'Everyone's going to want to play here'

To quote:

"Desert Diamond Arena in Glendale is celebrating its 20th anniversary in a big way, coming off its most successful year to date while heading into 2024 with a $40 million renovation plan for the multipurpose venue that’s become an anchor for the Westgate Entertainment District.

These renovations are an outgrowth of a deal arrived at last year between Glendale City Council and ASM Global, in which ASM will lease the venue from the city with an option to buy.

"As you know, the city has, for all intents and purposes, sold the arena to ASM," Phelps says."

Source (2024): www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/2024/01/09/desert-diamond-arena-glendale-az-renovations/72156007007/

 

[aqib]

How much sports debt does Glendale still owe? And was it worth it?

Gila River Arena
Year opened: 2003.
City borrowed: $180 million in 2003.
City still owes: $139 million.
Year city debt will be paid off: 2033.

This part is surprising. You would think they would be a lot further along in paying it off.

 

[TheLegend]

This part is surprising. You would think they would be a lot further along in paying it off.

That figure may not be just the arena.

There were a host of bonds refinanced in 2014. Some may have been consolidated.

Between 2002 and 2012, the city’s Municipal Property Corporation borrowed $485 million to build facilities such as the Gila River Arena, a media center, a conference center, a parking structure, Camelback Ranch/Glendale, and a public safety training center.

https://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_197a7e76-796d-11e4-97d5-8b0f6e09d16e.html

 

[TheGreenTBer]

This part is surprising. You would think they would be a lot further along in paying it off.

Considering the characters we've "met" on the Glendale City Council over the years I am plesantly surprised they haven't tried to pay off that debt prematurely with Monopoly money.

 

[Llama19]

Considering the characters we've "met" on the Glendale City Council over the years I am plesantly surprised they haven't tried to pay off that debt prematurely with Monopoly money.

Well...I recall LeBlanc's plan...
about renovating the old coliseum...
on the Arizona State Fairgrounds...
as their option for a 'new' arena...
but...it would have costed astrobucks...

 

[TheLegend]

Well...I recall LeBlanc's plan...
about renovating the old coliseum...
on the Arizona State Fairgrounds...
as their option for a 'new' arena...
but...it would have costed astrobucks...

It still would cost Astro bucks….. to IceArizona anyway.

Estimate was something around $100-110 million and at least 12 months.

That is if you could get the state fair board to go along with any plan.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Omnishambles

 

[aqib]

I will always be grateful to Nick Wood for teaching me the phrase "full on haboob"

 

[TheLegend]

I will always be grateful to Nick Wood for teaching me the phrase "full on haboob"

You’ll never really know how well it is until you lived through one.

 

[Stumbledore]

You’ll never really know how well it is until you lived through one.

Living through one was easy. Trying to hire people to clean up after it was a nightmare.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

We may find out more when the auction listing comes out and we can see the fine print.. Remember how Tempe worked the RFP to include an arena and everyone screamed how they favored the Coyotes.

What is the location like? Thats what supposedly killed them in Glendale.

 

[TheLegend]

What is the location like? Thats what supposedly killed them in Glendale.

Threw this together quickly.

In reference to where the Glendale arena was to where this site is relative to Phoenix Metro is noted by the red lines.



It’s relatively accessable from most of the higher income areas in the east and northwest (avoids the downtown core.)

The Loop 101 freeway in the east is currently going through a widening process to handle more traffic.



The is a satellite image of the local area…..




To the west you have Desert Ridge shopping center. To the SW there’s Mayo Clinic. Another shopping center directly to the south. Grayhawk is to the immediate east. A little further to the southeast you have TPC Scottsdale. A few more miles to the southeast is the Salt River Pima Community.

 

[GKJ]

This probably doesn’t have much meaning, but seems worthwhile