CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Llama19]

Cliff notes please.

Gutierrez on state land:

- no public vote
- they know they will win the auction
- they know they can build the arena, the theatre, practice facility
- 1,900 units of housing
- Two million square feet of commericial (but may not build that much)
- they are paying for it all

 

[awfulwaffle]

Bickley & Marotta Show Hour 4: Xavier Gutierrez joins us to give the latest on the Coyotes arena situation

Source (Audio - starting around the 12:00 time mark): arizonasports.com/category/podcast_player/?a=bfd461d5-1557-4e1e-8de2-2932378896d9&n=Bickley+%26+Marotta+Show+Audio&i=1946

Do you actually listen to these, or just post anything Coyotes related? Genuine question. Here I'll give you the cliffs notes just in case:

• Talks about household access, jumped from 900k to over 3 million because of the switch to Scripps.
• Talks about lack of trust with the group saying they want to stay in Arizona.
  • 1 month after the tempe vote, submitted application for state owned land.
  • 2 other sites were under contract, 1 of which made public news.
• Expects to be the winning bid for the AZ state land.
  • Didn't seem like they dove into this too much with a why they believe that.
• Notes that Walsh(NHLPA head) has not requested a meeting or information from the Coyotes. Mentions that they had multiple meetings and provided information with previous NHLPA head.
  • Mentions everyone understands it's a TEMPORARY situation.

Was actually a really quick interview.

 

[Fatass]

Gutierrez on state land:

- no public vote
- they know they will win the auction
- they know they can build the arena, the theatre, practice facility
- 1,900 units of housing
- Two million square feet of commericial (but may not build that much)
- they are paying for it all

Why in the heck didn’t the Coyotes go this route in the first place, considering it’s a lock?

 

[awfulwaffle]

Why in the heck didn’t the Coyotes go this route in the first place, considering it’s a lock?

To be fair, Tempe would be a much better location than the location that they are targeting through the state. This is just in terms of value for the entire district itself, not just the Coyotes.

 

[bleedblue94]

How much did they have to renovate? They hosted the Aeros 11 years ago, has that much changed?

NHL requirements for board systems has changed for sure with check flex technology. I would also assume that they have more modern requirements for ice plants and tonnage capacity than they did 11 years ago...

 

[bleedblue94]

Just curious how burdensome is an ice plant? I remember when Seattle was a potential relocation option people said the Tacoma Dome wasn't a viable interim solution because it didn't have an ice plant. Like how hard is this to put in and maintain?

Loaded question. is the piping in the concrete floor in tact or damaged/leaking?

How old is the plant?

What refrigerant is it? If it is an older plant does it need new/more refrigerant and is that refrigerant still available or has it been outlawed? If so, the plant needs to be replaced or modified.

Depending on if the loop to the floor runs brine or glycol you could have parts of the floor circulation system that has rotted from years or sitting, pumps that are seized ect. If it was a brine system and it was drained then as soon as the oxygen hits the piping it will start rusting and corroding.

11 years ago you may have been looking at ammonia/brine systems to a lot of variables there.

The question you ask is good, but it is extremely loaded and requires a lot more information on the plant at the time it was shut down.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Didn't they also expect to come out on top on the election measure?
Didn't they also say that they would pay for everything in the TED?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the state of Arizona will relocate and leave the Coyotes behind?

My Brain.

Just Exploded.

 

[dj4aces]

My Brain.

Just Exploded.

It's certainly not the first time the idea of relocating an entire state has come about...

 

[eojsmada]

Gutierrez on state land:

- no public vote
- they know they will win the auction
- they know they can build the arena, the theatre, practice facility
- 1,900 units of housing
- Two million square feet of commericial (but may not build that much)
- they are paying for it all

So then why can't they announce that everything is done and the team is staying?

 

[Stumbledore]

So then why can't they announce that everything is done and the team is staying?

Because nothing has been done so far.

They're probably hoping that Chipman's attempts to guilt the Manitoba business community will take the heat off the Coyotes for a while.

 

[TheLegend]

Didn't they also expect to come out on top on the election measure?
Didn't they also say that they would pay for everything in the TED?

Don’t play context games.

Cleaning up the landfill and infrastructure upgrades for TED was always Tempe’s responsibility. They worked out a way to cover that without causing additional burden on the current residents.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

It's certainly not the first time the idea of relocating an entire state has come about...
View attachment 824308

BUT FLORIDA IS OUR MOST PENIS-SHAPED STATE!!!

 

[Yukon Joe]

Gutierrez on state land:

- no public vote
- they know they will win the auction
- they know they can build the arena, the theatre, practice facility
- 1,900 units of housing
- Two million square feet of commericial (but may not build that much)
- they are paying for it all

I mean - interesting.

FIrst thought is "they can't possibly know they will win the auction". That's the nature of auctions. And if they can build all of that, profitably, then so can someone else.

Second thought is - damn - if they can actually build an entire arena, and develop the surrounding land, all without outside financing - damn good for them. I remain doubtful however.

Tis sounds like exactly the Westgate model - but Westgate depending on City (Glendale) financing.

 

[eojsmada]

I mean - interesting.

FIrst thought is "they can't possibly know they will win the auction". That's the nature of auctions. And if they can build all of that, profitably, then so can someone else.

Second thought is - damn - if they can actually build an entire arena, and develop the surrounding land, all without outside financing - damn good for them. I remain doubtful however.

Tis sounds like exactly the Westgate model - but Westgate depending on City (Glendale) financing.

Also...if Gutierrez said anything except exactly what he said, the NHL would probably just find a new owner for Meruelo to sell to or get them to relocate.

 

[Tawnos]

Loaded question. is the piping in the concrete floor in tact or damaged/leaking?

How old is the plant?

What refrigerant is it? If it is an older plant does it need new/more refrigerant and is that refrigerant still available or has it been outlawed? If so, the plant needs to be replaced or modified.

Depending on if the loop to the floor runs brine or glycol you could have parts of the floor circulation system that has rotted from years or sitting, pumps that are seized ect. If it was a brine system and it was drained then as soon as the oxygen hits the piping it will start rusting and corroding.

11 years ago you may have been looking at ammonia/brine systems to a lot of variables there.

The question you ask is good, but it is extremely loaded and requires a lot more information on the plant at the time it was shut down.

I'm trying to figure out how that's a loaded question. Unless you think "loaded question" just means complex and in need of qualification?

 

[TheLegend]

I mean - interesting.

FIrst thought is "they can't possibly know they will win the auction". That's the nature of auctions. And if they can build all of that, profitably, then so can someone else.

Second thought is - damn - if they can actually build an entire arena, and develop the surrounding land, all without outside financing - damn good for them. I remain doubtful however.

Tis sounds like exactly the Westgate model - but Westgate depending on City (Glendale) financing.

Glendale only built the arena. Steve Ellman did the rest up until he had to bail from the recession.

Edit…. I’ll add I’m not sure what their planning is for this NE Phoenix site but from what I gather there’s extensive infrastructure work needed and of course what tax mechanisms are involved.

 

[Tawnos]

I mean - interesting.

FIrst thought is "they can't possibly know they will win the auction". That's the nature of auctions. And if they can build all of that, profitably, then so can someone else.

Second thought is - damn - if they can actually build an entire arena, and develop the surrounding land, all without outside financing - damn good for them. I remain doubtful however.

Tis sounds like exactly the Westgate model - but Westgate depending on City (Glendale) financing.

Wonder if they're expecting to be the only serious bidder.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Glendale only built the arena. Steve Ellman did the rest up until he had to bail from the recession.

"Only" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

 

[TheLegend]

"Only" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I dunno…. Westgate has grown to the point where it offsets the arena.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Edit…. I’ll add I’m not sure what their planning is for this NE Phoenix site but from what I gather there’s extensive infrastructure work needed and of course what tax mechanisms are involved.

And fair - maybe the play here is that AM builds the whole site, but expects City of Phoenix to pay for all of the surrounding infrastructure (roads, water, sewage, etc)? In a development of this sort that can easily hit the hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more.

 

[TheLegend]

And fair - maybe the play here is that AM builds the whole site, but expects City of Phoenix to pay for all of the surrounding infrastructure (roads, water, sewage, etc)? In a development of this sort that can easily hit the hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more.

Agreed…. We gotta see more details to this.

I recall seeing the estimate returned for that 200 acre bid included infrastructure costs.

This could end up being entirely different.

 

[dj4aces]

FIrst thought is "they can't possibly know they will win the auction". That's the nature of auctions. And if they can build all of that, profitably, then so can someone else.

I do truly hope this gambit pays off for them... but going out and saying they're going to win is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[TheLegend]

I do truly hope this gambit pays off for them... but going out and saying they're going to win is putting the cart before the horse.

We may find out more when the auction listing comes out and we can see the fine print.. Remember how Tempe worked the RFP to include an arena and everyone screamed how they favored the Coyotes.

 

[Lions67]

Nope….. as Alfred said to Bruce Wayne….

“Some people just want to watch the world burn.”

Solid quote from Alfred.
Rings so true.