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CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

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Boris Zubov said:
The subheading is total click bait & is directly contradicted in the body of the text. Walsh isn't holding up development. Local unions are a different story, however.
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Yeah I thought it was a little click baitey.

AZ is a right to work state and right now the unions don't have the clout here like they might elsewhere. But that's all the reason for them to stir up a stink.
 
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You also have to look at the strong push from the players union that believes playing at Mullet Arena is a complete joke. I say Utah or Houston Coyotes by June 1st.
 
I find the idea that anyone with the NHL or with the Coyotes was surprised by walsh's comments ridiculous, and if you were actually surprised, you have been living in a Naive bubble.

IMO The PA's opinions on rhe situation have not changed since day one in Mullett, yet everyone (Including a source in the article Legends shared) was acting surprised about Walsh's statements.

Right now it's all about the land bid process, and if there's another interested party - from that perspective the unions trying to source a second bid is tough to hear from The Coyotes perspective.

I'm assuming an out-bid is very possible, considering they had to ramp down their request from 200 to 100 acres.
 
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Tom ServoMST3K said:
I find the idea that anyone with the NHL or with the Coyotes was surprised by walsh's comments ridiculous, and if you were actually surprised, you have been living in a Naive bubble.

IMO The PA's opinions on rhe situation have not changed since day one in Mullett, yet everyone (Including a source in the article Legends shared) was acting surprised about Walsh's statements.

Right now it's all about the land bid process, and if there's another interested party - from that perspective the unions trying to source a second bid is tough to hear from The Coyotes perspective.

I'm assuming an out-bid is very possible, considering they had to ramp down their request from 200 to 100 acres.
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According to the article…. the included infrastructure cost estimated put the 200 acre parcel to $230 million. Even without any requirement for remediation that’s pretty hefty.
 
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dj4aces said:
While this is a true statement, there are more moving parts in this situation than anyone -- outside the league's head office and its 32 governors -- could possibly know. It's likely that both of you are correct.
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Oh totally! I'm absolutely not saying "You fools! The Coyotes will NEVER end up in Salt Lake!" I think it's totally possible they do end up in Salt Lake. I'm merely dismissive of a super-secret espionage operation underway to make it happen, because that is really devoid of logic.

I think everyone is in the "There's options and we'll see how it plays out..." mode.


Yukon Joe said:
I just wanted to comment on this one point. Not that long ago, the NHL left a 6 million people market in order to go to a 800k market. Sometimes that's just what happens.

I agree that everything being equal the league would rather be in Phoenix than SLC. But sometimes everything isn't equal.

That being said - am I predicting the Coyotes will move to SLC? Oh HELLS NO! I have no idea. I'm just sitting in the back munching on popcorn...
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#1 - that last part is where I recommend everyone be.

#2 - I spent way too long trying to do math on Hartford before realizing you were talking about the Thrashers. The NHL left the Atlanta market because the owner was selling and no one was crazy enough to accept the lease terms of being ASG's tenant.

If AM was as willing to sell as ASG was, the hockey media wouldn't be making up NHL Black Ops, they'd just be ticking off the league by leaking reports of a sale before the NHL wanted them to.
 
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Tom ServoMST3K said:
I find the idea that anyone with the NHL or with the Coyotes was surprised by walsh's comments ridiculous, and if you were actually surprised, you have been living in a Naive bubble.

IMO The PA's opinions on rhe situation have not changed since day one in Mullett, yet everyone (Including a source in the article Legends shared) was acting surprised about Walsh's statements.

Right now it's all about the land bid process, and if there's another interested party - from that perspective the unions trying to source a second bid is tough to hear from The Coyotes perspective.

I'm assuming an out-bid is very possible, considering they had to ramp down their request from 200 to 100 acres.
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To think that bettman and walsh dont have the same goal here is insane, they BOTH want the franchise in an nhl arena. one guy works for the owners and one works for the players. this is good cop bad cop but both have the same end goal. and both will want a team in arz at some point even if the yotes move in the short term. bettman cant publically attack one of his bosses, but he can sit back and watch walsh do it with an internal smile. bettman is a lawyer, he is calculated, he knows walsh is going to advocate for the players and in turn put heat on the ownership publicly (bettman cant do it publicly and is in a no win if he does), so he sits back and lets walsh do that and then behind the scenes the nhl does its work on this as well to put its pressure on the situtaion. it isnt rocket science if you understand how lawyers operate and the structure of these jobs...
 
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KevFu said:
Oh totally! I'm absolutely not saying "You fools! The Coyotes will NEVER end up in Salt Lake!" I think it's totally possible they do end up in Salt Lake. I'm merely dismissive of a super-secret espionage operation underway to make it happen, because that is really devoid of logic.

I think everyone is in the "There's options and we'll see how it plays out..." mode.
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I'm not sure there's an "espionage operation" or anything. What I am sure of is the league trying to cover all its bases. Unlike the Thrashers, this situation isn't a last minute sort of operation. If I had to guess, the league has probably been forming two plans -- one for Arizona, one for Potential Relocation Market -- since the moment the Tempe vote results came in.

So, no... no black ops stuff going on. Just a multi-billion dollar business trying to ensure the long-term survival of an asset.
 
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KevFu said:
Oh totally! I'm absolutely not saying "You fools! The Coyotes will NEVER end up in Salt Lake!" I think it's totally possible they do end up in Salt Lake. I'm merely dismissive of a super-secret espionage operation underway to make it happen, because that is really devoid of logic.

I think everyone is in the "There's options and we'll see how it plays out..." mode.




#1 - that last part is where I recommend everyone be.

#2 - I spent way too long trying to do math on Hartford before realizing you were talking about the Thrashers. The NHL left the Atlanta market because the owner was selling and no one was crazy enough to accept the lease terms of being ASG's tenant.

If AM was as willing to sell as ASG was, the hockey media wouldn't be making up NHL Black Ops, they'd just be ticking off the league by leaking reports of a sale before the NHL wanted them to.
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The situation in Atlanta was of course completely different then the one in Arizona. Atlanta had an ownership group that didn't want to own an NHL team (and didn't want one in their building). I just brought it up to point out that market size isn't everything.

Arizona on the other hand has an ownership group that would very much like to own a team, but doesn't have a building. The question though is how long does the NHL let the situation go before it tries to force a relocation and sale.
 
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goalie41 said:
You also have to look at the strong push from the players union that believes playing at Mullet Arena is a complete joke. I say Utah or Houston Coyotes by June 1st.
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Houston is out of the picture until the NHL can convince Tilman Fertitta to overpay for a team.

It's Arizona or SLC and we will know that answer within months IMO.
 
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Worker Power, a social welfare labor organization, spent more than $480,000 to defeat the Tempe propositions, according to campaign contribution data reviewed by FOS. (About half those funds came from UA Local 469, which represents pipefitters, plumbers, and welders.) And there’s been some spillover to the new project, where local unions are pushing for 100% union labor to construct whatever is built on the open land. The Coyotes countered with a promise to use 25% union labor.
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Yeah, there's going to be a big fight with the local union.
 
Rob said:
Yeah, there's going to be a big fight with the local union.
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Depends.

Arizona is a “right to work” state. Unions don’t have the strength here (yet) that they do in other parts of the US. So they’re left to giving financial backing to things like public referendums (aka TED)

BTW the semiconductor factory referred to in the article is not 100% union.
 
I’m not an expert in labor unions, but where the hell they get $480k from?
 
GKJ said:
I’m not an expert in labor unions, but where the hell they get $480k from?
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Worker Power doesn't seem to be so much of a union as a PAC. They're affiliated with the AFL-CIO but they take in donations, in addition to the money they no doubt get from the federation and the unions they are a part of. It looks to be an offshoot of UNITE HERE - a union which mostly represents workers in the hotel sector.

www.workerpower.com

ABOUT | Worker Power

www.workerpower.com www.workerpower.com

UNITE HERE is a large union in terms of members, although their members tend to not be paid particularly well. I'm not sure if PACs are required to publish their financials, but it wouldn't surprise me if most of their funding comes in from donations.
 
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KevFu said:
Spoken like an owner who's arena just turned 20 years old!
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And it would still be the 9th youngest arena in the league, not counting Mullett.

It would also be the 10th largest by capacity.

It's almost like it's an actual NHL caliber arena.
 
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