CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[GKJ]

Except he hasn't threatened to leave. In fact he's been emphatic about doing the opposite.

So why would there be "demands" as it's being framed here?? Other than it has to make economic sense for him.

The question asked was 'will Merulo demand the same'

 

[TheLegend]

Just your friendly reminder that the Meruelo Group was going to pay $53 million for just 46 acres in Tempe.

And that didn't include overruns for the cleanup of a landfill.

 

[TheLegend]

The question asked was 'will Merulo demand the same'

And it's still a non-sequitur.

Phoenix is looking to working with Maricopa County. Not the Diamondbacks.

 

[KevFu]

That being said - a lot can happen in 5-10 years. What if there's a large drop in sports franchise values?

Has that... ever happened? Like, what would cause such a thing? The well of RSN dollars drying up would be one, but it's gonna hit MLB way harder than the NHL because more NHL teams aren't getting $80m a year in RSN money...

The only thing that could really cause franchise values to -- let's be honest, level off, they won't drop -- would be a simple shortage of billionaires who want to buy because the leagues have essentially priced out the number of humans with that kinda dough.

 

[aqib]

And it appears to be what's happening in SLC as well.

So yes- it could happen.

But will it? Who knows. Suns had ample opportunities to own the Coyotes in the past, but of course they're under new ownership since 2023. Owner Mat Ishbia has much more basketball connections (being a walk on player for Michigan State) so who knows his interest in hockey.

The Footprint Center is now 40 years old, but there are already two other arenas in the Phoenix area. It did undergo some renovations about 5 years ago.

So maybe in 10 years what you could propose would happen - but would it? Footprint Center is in a pretty good location, right next to downtown Phoenix and the baseball Chase Field. Seems like good transportation infrastructure.

I'll repeat my earlier statement - while a Coyotes 2.0 might happen down the road, Coyotes fans should hope and work towards making sure the current team doesn't leave.

Once America West/US Airways/Talking Stick/Footprint was built with just a basketball configuration it didn't make sense for the Suns to own the Coyotes. Just like any Islanders/Nets cooperation was doomed when Barclays was redesigned to be awful for hockey. Footprint is a little over 30 years old the lease is now running through 2037 so maybe in 10 years when it's time to replace it. It might be easier to get funding if it means bringing hockey back to the desert.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Once America West/US Airways/Talking Stick/Footprint was built with just a basketball configuration it didn't make sense for the Suns to own the Coyotes. Just like any Islanders/Nets cooperation was doomed when Barclays was redesigned to be awful for hockey. Footprint is a little over 30 years old the lease is now running through 2037 so maybe in 10 years when it's time to replace it. It might be easier to get funding if it means bringing hockey back to the desert.

FWIW Royals renovated their stadium like, 10 years ago and is looking for new stadium right now.

 

[aqib]

FWIW Royals renovated their stadium like, 10 years ago and is looking for new stadium right now.

Just looked it up the renovations were done in time for the 2010 season. The Suns new lease runs through 2037 so the time frame is about right for them to want a brand new arena.

 

[JMCx4]

The Roman numerical prefix in the title of this thread should be changed to the Hexidecimal equivalent (93), providing more headroom to take it well into the next 105 pages.

 

[dj4aces]

The Roman numerical prefix in the title of this thread should be changed to the Hexidecimal equivalent (93), providing more headroom to take it well into the next 105 pages.

At this point, all the threads could be merged and given the numerical prefix -1^∞

 

[GKJ]

This got a mention in 32 Thoughts pod this morning.

Basically it will be decided on Thursday if the land will be put up for auction, and the auction would be late May or early June, which would put everyone past the point they were at last year.

Site link: https://www.12news.com/article/news...e-tag/75-fdb1cc95-de45-4322-8531-a2f7a7d9af4b

 

[Fatass]

This got a mention in 32 Thoughts pod this morning.

Basically it will be decided on Thursday if the land will be put up for auction, and the auction would be late May or early June, which would put everyone past the point they were at last year.

If the Coyotes get this land does that mean they can start building or would there be more hurdles put in their way by government?

 

[eojsmada]

If the Coyotes get this land does that mean they can start building or would there be more hurdles put in their way by government?

Still more hurdles because they would have to get planning permission to make sure the necessary infrastructure is in place for its usage, as well as all of the associated environmental easements/restrictions. And they could still run afoul of putting shovels in the ground from local or environmental groups.

 

[GKJ]

If the Coyotes get this land does that mean they can start building or would there be more hurdles put in their way by government?

The biggest hurdles mentioned, upon getting ownership of the land, is that there’s no proper sewer or water service, and that has to come from the city of Phoenix. Also the land is designated by FEMA as within a floodplain, which, private ownership or not, always brings citizens out to protest it, although I don’t know that it will mean anything, but they will have to take that into consideration.

Friedman said that the league has to plan for ‘parallel worlds.’

If you’re asking if they can win the auction on Day 0 and rush shovels into the ground on Day 1, the answer is no.

 

[RogerRoger]

The biggest hurdles mentioned, upon getting ownership of the land, is that there’s no proper sewer or water service, and that has to come from the city of Phoenix. Also the land is designated by FEMA as within a floodplain, which, private ownership or not, always brings citizens out to protest it, although I don’t know that it will mean anything, but they will have to take that into consideration.

Friedman said that the league has to plan for ‘parallel worlds.’

If you’re asking if they can win the auction on Day 0 and rush shovels into the ground on Day 1, the answer is no.

In my neck of the wood, floodplain+bad zoning+no sewer/water means years if shovel ever hit the ground.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The biggest hurdles mentioned, upon getting ownership of the land, is that there’s no proper sewer or water service, and that has to come from the city of Phoenix. Also the land is designated by FEMA as within a floodplain, which, private ownership or not, always brings citizens out to protest it, although I don’t know that it will mean anything, but they will have to take that into consideration.

Friedman said that the league has to plan for ‘parallel worlds.’

If you’re asking if they can win the auction on Day 0 and rush shovels into the ground on Day 1, the answer is no.

The floodplain will likely make it more difficult to get a construction loan as well due to heightened risk and questions about value come up. Ultimately, the billionaire will get his money, but it sounds like there are issues.

 

[GKJ]

In my neck of the wood, floodplain+bad zoning+no sewer/water means years if shovel ever hit the ground.

It took 8 or 9 years for my Wawa to get razed and rebuilt with a gas station because it was right next to a floodplain, and the public got involved. At least they kept the old Wawa open until they were ready to move on it.

They since built a Wendy’s on the other side of the floodplain, then a CVS, but it’s an awkward path ti get between the two.

 

[TheLegend]

The floodplain will likely make it more difficult to get a construction loan as well due to heightened risk and questions about value come up. Ultimately, the billionaire will get his money, but it sounds like there are issues.

Fun facts:

1. Being in a FEMA designated floodplain would require the land holder to purchase flood insurance. That’s all.

2. There are different levels to flood plains based on historical factors. Depending on which certain controls might be required for remediation.

3. FEMA has also been known to get their mapping wrong and periodically changes them accordingly.

Speaking from first hand experience here as a homeowner who bought a house once in one.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Fun facts:

1. Being in a FEMA designated floodplain would require the land holder to purchase flood insurance. That’s all.

2. There are different levels to flood plains based on historical factors. Depending on which certain controls might be required for remediation.

3. FEMA has also been known to get their mapping wrong and periodically changes them accordingly.

Speaking from first hand experience here as a homeowner who bought a house once in one.

All of this is true, but:

4. Banks will take a much longer look before lending hundreds of millions of dollars of a construction loan on a land in floodplain (especially in a tight economy where the banks are already under a ton of scrutiny for the amount of commercial RE lending they've done).

 

[GKJ]

 

[TheLegend]

All of this is true, but:

4. Banks will take a much longer look before lending hundreds of millions of dollars of a construction loan on a land in floodplain (especially in a tight economy where the banks are already under a ton of scrutiny for the amount of commercial RE lending they've done).

It will depend on the actual designation of the floodplain.

I will remind you though TED involved the shoring up of an active man-made lake the arena would be built next to and Meruelo had his financing for Phase 1 locked up.

 

[GreenHornet]

One thing that seems pretty evident, though I could be completely wrong about this. If the board of appeals votes to put the land up for sale and the auction gets set for late May or early June, sounds to me that pretty much buys the Coyotes at least one more season at Mullett to win the auction, clear all the hurdles, dot all the Is and cross all the Ts and make serious progress towards getting shovels in the ground, no?

 

[TheLegend]

Just looked and the agenda isn’t posted to the website yet. But it exists.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

One thing that seems pretty evident, though I could be completely wrong about this. If the board of appeals votes to put the land up for sale and the auction gets set for late May or early June, sounds to me that pretty much buys the Coyotes at least one more season at Mullett to win the auction, clear all the hurdles, dot all the Is and cross all the Ts and make serious progress towards getting shovels in the ground, no?

I can't imagine the NHL would wait this long to have this not true. Maybe the message has been "secure land by season's end or else"?

 

[TLEH]

Seems like the first good news in over a year.

 

[GreenHornet]

I can't imagine the NHL would wait this long to have this not true. Maybe the message has been "secure land by season's end or else"?

To be clear, that's what I'm saying. IF the auction is set for late May or early June, everyone out that way seems pretty confident Muerlo will win the auction. I haven't seen or heard much about another interested parties, anyway.

Now, those other obstacles that have been talked about may take longer than a year to negotiate, but if they get the land they need to get the process started, I'm sure the NHL will be a little patient with the rest, no?