CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[TheLegend]

Yeah but WHAT's the plan?

Draft is in 4 weeks.... FA opens right after that.

There's also been rumors that their top 2022 pick, Logan Cooley, has held off deciding if he's going pro.

 

[MeHateHe]

I'm genuinely curious what were official sources saying in the weeks before the Thrashers up and moved to Winterpeg? The situations are somewhat analogous.

I just don't know how it's feasible for a team to play in a 5,000-seat arena without a plan for a permanent major-league-sized facility. If there isn't a realistic option to move into one of the current arenas in Phoenix, and there is no plan to build a new arena, then what is the plan?

 

[jkrdevil]

The playing in Tempe next stuff sounds to me like it is too late to move for next year. They did it with Atlanta to Winnipeg, but that had a lot of ducks in a row already.

An extra year in Tempe buys time to figure out if there is another solution in Arizona or move the team with more runway to build up a new market.

 

[tucker3434]

It's already mid-May. Unless they're selling the team tomorrow, I don't see any other option for 23-24.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Lost in all this fighting about the team and the fans is the commentary on the dysfunction of the local governments in Greater Phoenix. The city of Phoenix was more than happy to see this fail to make sure their downtown remained the primary business center in the region. This Coyotes thing is just one example of government infighting in the area. The Phoenix region needs to come together and look at how places like Seattle and Denver do things. What happened today was unnecessary and preventable.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm genuinely curious what were official sources saying in the weeks before the Thrashers up and moved to Winterpeg? The situations are somewhat analogous.

I just don't know how it's feasible for a team to play in a 5,000-seat arena without a plan for a permanent major-league-sized facility. If there isn't a realistic option to move into one of the current arenas in Phoenix, and there is no plan to build a new arena, then what is the plan?

Having Mullett keeps them here for at least another season why they sort this mess out.

One of the reason why I didn't get all lathered up over this was because it was obvious the league and Coyotes both thought TED was going to happen and it didn't, and I wanted to see how they reacted first.

My only surprise is they responded so quickly even if it was a measured one.

 

[GreenHornet]

I'm genuinely curious what were official sources saying in the weeks before the Thrashers up and moved to Winterpeg? The situations are somewhat analogous.

I just don't know how it's feasible for a team to play in a 5,000-seat arena without a plan for a permanent major-league-sized facility. If there isn't a realistic option to move into one of the current arenas in Phoenix, and there is no plan to build a new arena, then what is the plan?

My memories are there were some similarities in what they parties were saying (with the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ outright lying to the point that it was selling the next year's season tickets up until the day the sale and relocation of the franchise was announced). That said, there is one HUGE difference between Arizona now and Atlanta then. Unlike the Thrashers, the Coyotes DO have a place to play locally next season, albeit a tiny 4,000-seat arena. The Thrashers were evicted.

 

[Ernie]

Lost in all this fighting about the team and the fans is the commentary on the dysfunction of the local governments in Greater Phoenix. The city of Phoenix was more than happy to see this fail to make sure their downtown remained the primary business center in the region. This Coyotes thing is just one example of government infighting in the area. The Phoenix region needs to come together and look at how places like Seattle and Denver do things. What happened today was unnecessary and preventable.

It was a bit of a process to get Seattle an NHL stadium, to put it lightly.

 

[jkrdevil]

I'm genuinely curious what were official sources saying in the weeks before the Thrashers up and moved to Winterpeg? The situations are somewhat analogous.

I just don't know how it's feasible for a team to play in a 5,000-seat arena without a plan for a permanent major-league-sized facility. If there isn't a realistic option to move into one of the current arenas in Phoenix, and there is no plan to build a new arena, then what is the plan?

Winnipeg was likely further along in the process than where we are now. True North basically had an agreement to buy the Coyotes back and then pivoted to Atlanta when deal with Glendale went through. True North also had the infrastructure in place to ramp up an organization and sales team in Winnipeg already through the Moose. Allowed for a shorter runway.

 

[RoyalAir]

I'm genuinely curious what were official sources saying in the weeks before the Thrashers up and moved to Winterpeg? The situations are somewhat analogous.

Bettman and Daly didn't say anything, really. The amount of effort that the NHL has put into keeping the Coyotes in AZ for *one* season, let alone 20, dwarfs anything they did for the ASG/Thrashers.

When the bus was warmed up, and the team shipped to Canada, Bettman said that the league never should have left WPG.

 

[TheLegend]

Lost in all this fighting about the team and the fans is the commentary on the dysfunction of the local governments in Greater Phoenix. The city of Phoenix was more than happy to see this fail to make sure their downtown remained the primary business center in the region. This Coyotes thing is just one example of government infighting in the area. The Phoenix region needs to come together and look at how places like Seattle and Denver do things. What happened today was unnecessary and preventable.

This goes all the way back to Steve Ellman taking the Coyotes out to Glendale because their mayor at the time wanted to get one over on Scottsdale.

I can give several examples not even related to the Coyotes, but political egoism is well entrenched here and real.

 

[Final Baton]

It was kind of expected they'd play in Mullet in 2023-2024 :

It's getting late for a relocation for next season.

 

[Mightygoose]

It does make sense that they'll remain in AZ next season. They would have been there anyways and can budget based on being there.

An out of town sale would have to be practically done in principle by now for a quick pivot.....so no '2 weeks' here

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

There was no option to play in Atlanta when Thrashers were kicked out of arena

So not at all comparable to Arizona situation

 

[Melrose Munch]

It was a bit of a process to get Seattle an NHL stadium, to put it lightly.

Absolutely true, but Tacoma and Puyallup weren't trying to kill it either. That's what Phoenix did to Tempe with the Sky Harbor stuff.

There was no option to play in Atlanta when Thrashers were kicked out of arena

So not at all comparable to Arizona situation

There's no option now either. Mullett is not an NHL arena.

 

[GKJ]

So roughly 8-9 months to convince Mat Ishbia to buy the team.

 

[Slashers98]

I find it pretty funny that all the NHL mouthpieces are saying the same thing so quickly after the decision. They got orders from Bettman for sure. It makes zero sense to remain in Arizona for a lame-duck year in an ECHL-caliber arena with an AHL roster. Clayton Keller said he wants out and he is their best player.

 

[LadyStanley]

Having Mullett keeps them here for at least another season why they sort this mess out.

NHL rule is that league needs to know of relocation by JANUARY so they can incorporate it in schedule planning.

Later-in-calendar-year moves puts big crimp in planning and lots of overtime to re-work on schedule.

Therefore I'd expect plans to be finalized by December 2023 BoG meeting. I'd expect something by June BoG meeting with decision on direction. Sell/relocation (with same owner), etc.

 

[aqib]

First.... cut the crap about lecturing me in how I think. I gave you an insight of how Meruelo works based upon everything I know about him since he first bought the franchise. Some of it coming directly from his own comments you've probably never heard.

Yes.... Meruelo is a billionaire. And Ballmer is a MEGA billionaire with a lot of time on his hands. They are two different individuals who distinctly have their own way of doing things. They ONLY thing they have in common is they're rich.

OK toss Ballmer aside. You can look at any other owner that has bought a team and gotten a new venue or major overhaul. No one is as anonymous as he is.

 

[Headshot77]

Spoken like a true idiot. Sounds important until you compare the size of that to the $125 billion economy in SLC. The airport alone is thought to be worth $5 billion to the economy.

Okay, I'll accept that the actual direct economic output from the lake is a small part of their overall economy. When I say it's the "lifeblood" of the area I mean that human beings need water to drink and air to breathe. In SLC they will soon have neither. Call me an idiot all you want but people will start to move away.

 

[KevFu]

I like San Diego, too, but to me, there are a couple (or three, depending on how you look at it) potential flies in the ointment. One is the arena situation. Is there a plan for a new arena that I don't know about. My understanding is that the old San Diego Sports Arena (I believe it's called Pechanga Arena now, no?) is the only barn in town. It's a year older than I am, and last I checked, listed capacity was 16,100, and I highly suspect that figure is for a concert configuration. If memory serves, the hockey configuration was closer to 14,000.

The other issue, or really two, is the nearby presence of the LA Kings and Anaheim Ducks. While not within the 50-mile radius that would allow either to outright block a team in San Diego, you can be sure either or (more likely) both would want some major concessions to allow a third team in their relative backyard.

Well, on the arena front, yes Pechanga Arena holds 13,000 for hockey and is old. It is home of the San Diego Gulls of the AHL (Anaheim's farm team, owned by the Ducks owner).

But the arena problem is true of almost every single location.

The age of Pechanga Arena already has three developers bidding on a new arena/mixed use plans for the location. Looks like they picked a front-runner, but there's still ballot measures and hurdles... and the intended home team of the arena IS a hockey team, just the AHL one.

The city has 3.5 million people, no major sport from October to March; that just lost the Chargers and lost the Clippers decades ago. An NHL team joining the bid to build an arena to replace Pechanga makes sense. You're gonna have a far easier time getting an NHL/NBA arena built than a AHL/G-League arena built, because "big league" sports are immensely more popular. San Diego (and Salt Lake) don't want to be MINOR LEAGUE, they want to be MAJOR LEAGUE.

San Diego probably the most sense of any option, TBH.


Yes, you have the Ducks/Kings 90 miles away, but (unlike the Bay Area with BART), going from SD to ANA/LA for a hockey game is non-existent. If you leave SD at 4 pm for a 7 pm Ducks game, you might miss puck drop. No chance on the Kings unless you leave by 3 pm.

When you look at "Markets" and see #17 San Diego... oh, it's too close to LA/ANA... take note of who #12 is: San Bernandino/Riverside!

They are 56 miles from LA, about half the distance as SD. But they count as a "separate market" because MSAs are about work/live commutes, and no one wants to make that commute!


As for "territorial rights," the Kings/Ducks have none. That's how the Padres exist, and how the San Diego Chargers and San Diego Clippers used to exist.

The Kings and Ducks can vote "no," but if the Coyotes tried to move to San Diego, got the arena deal done for the Pechenga Arena site... the Ducks and Kings would know they're going to lose 30-2.

The only way it DOESN'T make sense is if the SD Arena project is Samueli's arena project. If the Midway Rising thing is HIS real estate deal, and he's not letting an NHL competitor in (or if it's his deal and he wants the option of moving the Ducks there)

 

[GKJ]

I find it pretty funny that all the NHL mouthpieces are saying the same thing so quickly after the decision. They got orders from Bettman for sure. It makes zero sense to remain in Arizona for a lame-duck year in an ECHL-caliber arena with an AHL roster. Clayton Keller said he wants out and he is their best player.

Bill Daly said it out loud, so yeah.

Maybe owners see it different.

 

[Spydey629]

I’m going to throw this out there… back in the late 90’s voters in Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, and some surrounding counties (??) all voted NO to have tax dollars used to build new stadiums for the Steelers and Pirates.

A short time later, a Plan B was announced. Both teams got their new buildings. And taxpayers were still on the hook for it.

These situations are never over until A) the ink dries on a final agreement, or B) the moving trucks are loaded and start rolling out.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yeah but WHAT's the plan?

Draft is in 4 weeks.... FA opens right after that.

There's also been rumors that their top 2022 pick, Logan Cooley, has held off deciding if he's going pro.

After last night, I am fairly certain next year will be a lame duck.

Not to get into it, but people in the know with Winnipeg knew the chances of getting Atlanta were very good January first.

And even then, Winnipeg's relocation was honestly way too late, and they had an AHL team's resources to lean on.

The only way a relocation can work this late is if you're going into an existing ownership group that is active in hockey right now. And probably only AHL markets. Just from a hockey ops/gm standpoint.

 

[MeHateHe]

There was no option to play in Atlanta when Thrashers were kicked out of arena

So not at all comparable to Arizona situation

"Analogous" was the word I used and I'll stand by it. There was not an NHL-calibre arena available for the Thrashers, but with a gun to their head, I'd bet all the money in my pocket that the Thrashers could have found an arena somewhere in Georgia to play out of.