CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Lost in all this fighting about the team and the fans is the commentary on the dysfunction of the local governments in Greater Phoenix. The city of Phoenix was more than happy to see this fail to make sure their downtown remained the primary business center in the region. This Coyotes thing is just one example of government infighting in the area. The Phoenix region needs to come together and look at how places like Seattle and Denver do things. What happened today was unnecessary and preventable.

In full agreement here.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Another round of applause for Jeremy Jacobs, you couldn't stop crying about Tilman being mean, almost screwed up the Seattle expansion with Tukwila and now this. The NHL needs a new BOG Head when this is done.

Yup. Didn't realize Jacobs was mixed up to this degree in Seattle's arena convo

 

[JimAnchower]

I believe so.

Gutierrez mentioned something the other day about their renewals were doing fine. But last night is going to change that mood. Even with the league saying the team will be playing at Mullett next year.

How quickly do Meruelo and Gutierrez have to show something viable for their "plan b" before fans start to see next year as lame duck? ASAP or do they have a little time, like beginning of training camp?

 

[Andre Palot]

So unless I am missing something there would be six likely candidates for relocation if that is the route we are headed down:

1. Houston - Everything would already be in place and the Rockets owner has previously expressed interest, but he balked at the price.

2. Salt Lake City - Everything would already be in place and the Jazz owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams

3. Sacramento - Everything would already be in place and the Kings owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams. Also have to worry about poaching some fans from the San Jose market as they are relatively close.

4. Kansas City - Have an arena but no one has made any real effort to be an NHL owner in that market

5. Atlanta - Would need both an ownership group and an arena plan, but there has been some recent rumors that there are willing owners with an arena plan waiting on the opportunity. Would likely have to play in an ECHL arena in Duluth until a new arena could be built.

6. Quebec City - Have both an arena and a willing owner, but questions about the market long-term viability. Expressed interest in expansion but balked at the price.

What about Milwaukee?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

When Canadian teams move it is because of extenuating circumstances and it is a tragedy. When southern teams move it is because their fans suck and deserve it.

/s if it wasn't obvious.

I don't even mind Coyotes Should Move takes, tbh with you. You can still have empathy for their fans and believe there is no course left for Coyotes in Arizona.

 

[Mike Jones]

What about Milwaukee?

There was a thread about this somewhere. I remember that one of the conclusions was that it was too close to other current NHL teams (Chicago/Detroit/Wild?).

 

[stealth1]

What about Milwaukee?

Don't think it works. They would be second fiddle to the Bucks. I said it another thread they need go to a market where they are the only game in town.

 

[KevFu]

I don't even mind Coyotes Should Move takes, tbh with you. You can still have empathy for their fans and believe there is no course left for Coyotes in Arizona.

Right. My hope was that the vote would pass, new arena would open, Coyotes would be like the Islanders in UBS.

I don't know how you can start a new attempt in the Phoenix metro area and get it done to start play in the 2027-28 season unless one of two things happen:

1. Tribal leaders are like "We'd love to have you, we can start building right now!"

2. The DBacks get a deal done ASAP (where? they haven't said!) So they can move into new digs for 2028, and the Coyotes move into Chase. (which kinda sounds like my "5 sites for 4 teams" dream, just REALLY disorganized!).

 

[StreetHawk]

Right. My hope was that the vote would pass, new arena would open, Coyotes would be like the Islanders in UBS.

I don't know how you can start a new attempt in the Phoenix metro area and get it done to start play in the 2027-28 season unless one of two things happen:

1. Tribal leaders are like "We'd love to have you, we can start building right now!"

2. The DBacks get a deal done ASAP (where? they haven't said!) So they can move into new digs for 2028, and the Coyotes move into Chase. (which kinda sounds like my "5 sites for 4 teams" dream, just REALLY disorganized!).

Seems like a waste to spend hundreds of millions more on another 18k indoor arena when they just spend $260 mill total of which $210 was from the city to renovate the Suns arena.
NHL was doomed from day 1 in AZ.

The arena was not setup for the nhl. They did ask Ziegler about AZ being in their future plans and were told no. So built it for basketball and concerts.
4 years old when coyotes arrived.
Thus coyotes had to privately finance a new arena or work with another county or city on one. Could not get one on Scottsdale at an old mall location. Had a chance but they didn’t pull it off.
They misread Glendale’s growth and their current fanbase desire to commute to Glendale.
Appear to have misread the voting demographics of Tempe and they’re voting habits and what they needed to do to get their message out.

Unfortunately Sarver held firm in not wanting to share with the coyotes and pushed for a renovation vs a year down and rebuild of the arena in Phx. And he didn’t have the money to buy the coyotes to make it a bette option for both to play on the same arena. Made sense from a Suns only business POV but for AZ they needed the suns to want to share the arena but would mean a decrease in their share of arena revenues which they were not willing to give up.

No help from Nba to tell Sarver that they would not let him move the Suns as that was his threat with the lease due up in 2022. Nba also wanted an updated arena for the Suns.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Just bring the team to Houston, re-create the Houston Aeros of WHA Gordie Howe fame, and call it a day.

Tillman Fertitta didn't end up buying the Washington Commanders, so he undoubtedly has some cash available.

And of course, he has an arena that is 18K seat and NHL ready!

As for Quebec, it's a much smaller market, and as for Atlanta..........the NHL has already failed there.

It isn't that simple.

Fertitta didn't want to pay the going rate for a NHL team, that's probably the only reason why he doesn't have a NHL team right now.

And considering the NHL holds the franchise values above every else in their list of priorities, they aren't going to let him get it for anything less. He was borderline publicly outed as a cheapskate after the details of his meeting with Daly were released.

Fertitta is the only one who could own that any Houston franchise. If he doesn't want to pay the going rate for a NHL team, and nothing has indicated his attitude has changed, then the NHL isn't going to Houston. And as an aside, right after he was too cheap to put up the cash for a NHL team, he bought a steakhouse chain in a deal worth eight figures, so it's not like he has been putting liquid capital aside to save up.

 

[TheLegend]

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[TheLegend]

How quickly do Meruelo and Gutierrez have to show something viable for their "plan b" before fans start to see next year as lame duck? ASAP or do they have a little time, like beginning of training camp?

Soon....

Like before the Draft and FA period.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Can’t say I’m shocked that if they’re moving that they’re not immediately moving. Putting together the logistics of a new home, fanbase, media deal, arena availability, and ticket drive in only a few months is pretty damn hard to do. Winnipeg’s success in doing so really drove home my long-standing opinion that QC is being retained as an emergency relocation option for that very reason.

 

[edog37]

Forget about expansion. The league has already 32 teams and that's too many.

No it isn’t. There’s never been more viable talent.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Hoping for Quebec. But if not Quebec probably Houston or Salt Lake City. Kansas City even.

But anyway, I think Salt Lake City would be good if their seats weren't tucked similar to Barclays Center. Houston is the only logical solution here.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

If Rogers wanted a 8th Canadian team there would already be one in Hamilton. Sure it would be adding some games, but most of those games would be televised at the exact some time as some of your other games and would have much of the same audience. So again you aren't adding any viewers just reallocating them,

This is not true. Canada is shared and divided into regional markets. Quebec would be televised in English & French. Quebecor, which has the French T.V. rights in a deal with Rogers, would also own the Nordiques. Guess who would get the advertising revenue? You also assume every Canadian team plays on the same night. Also not true. Furthermore, the Rogers-NHL television deal ends at the end of the 2025-2026 season. It is possible an eighth team has been mentioned in order to renew.

The Rogers TV deal isn't good and it won't make a difference if the team isn't competitive.

Isn't good for whom? 5.2 Billion is definitely good for the league.

 

[StreetHawk]

It isn't that simple.

Fertitta didn't want to pay the going rate for a NHL team, that's probably the only reason why he doesn't have a NHL team right now.

And considering the NHL holds the franchise values above every else in their list of priorities, they aren't going to let him get it for anything less. He was borderline publicly outed as a cheapskate after the details of his meeting with Daly were released.

Fertitta is the only one who could own that any Houston franchise. If he doesn't want to pay the going rate for a NHL team, and nothing has indicated his attitude has changed, then the NHL isn't going to Houston. And as an aside, right after he was too cheap to put up the cash for a NHL team, he bought a steakhouse chain in a deal worth eight figures, so it's not like he has been putting liquid capital aside to save up.

People Completely ignoring the arena management rights. Fertitia controls that for the Toyota Center. Anyone else but him owns a team there they are only getting game day revenues which won’t be enough for an nhl club to be financially viable. And he knows it.

Unless he has a change of heart and pays based off what Nash and Pitt sold for in the $900 mill range then he’s not going to purchase an nhl team. And there’s no talk about someone looking to do what Atl is doing in another county to build a new arena.

NHL had 9/11 expansion franchises from the 90’s onwards that didn’t have to deal with an nba team in the same arena. 2/5 relocations didn’t either. Of the 5 that did:
Florida, Dallas and Colorado had old arenas that needed to be replaced. Colorado had the same owner. Florida they went their separate ways and got their own arenas in different parts of the metro Miami area. Dallas they equally shared in a new arena. Atl was expansion owned by the same entity. Then it’s AZ. And all of their issues. No suitable arena. Different owners between the 2 teams. NBA owner didn’t want to buy the nhl team.

Now with AZ and a potential move most of the locations left have nba teams who have the management rights agreement so they are the party to talk to about buying into the coyotes. If they don’t want to them the nhl isn’t going there.

 

[BattleBorn]

Can’t say I’m shocked that if they’re moving that they’re not immediately moving. Putting together the logistics of a new home, fanbase, media deal, arena availability, and ticket drive in only a few months is pretty damn hard to do. Winnipeg’s success in doing so really drove home my long-standing opinion that QC is being retained as an emergency relocation option for that very reason.

Especially when they’ve already handled the issues involved with playing in front of a few thousand fans last year.

Could probably go lame duck and have a similar situation as last year, attendance-wise. I feel like this is an under appreciated aspect of this potential move.

They’ve got time.

 

[Melrose Munch]

This is not true. Canada is shared and divided into regional markets. Quebec would be televised in English & French. Quebecor, which has the French T.V. rights in a deal with Rogers, would also own the Nordiques. Guess who would get the advertising revenue? You also assume every Canadian team plays on the same night. Also not true. Furthermore, the Rogers-NHL television deal ends at the end of the 2025-2026 season. It is possible an eighth team has been mentioned in order to renew.


Isn't good for whom? 5.2 Billion is definitely good for the league.

they're not getting the return they wanted.

 

[MMC]

 

[joelef]

Does Quebecor have the money? I mean you know the nhl is going to also for a fortune for the coyotes if they do relocate

 

[LPHabsFan]

So with next year's 20 - 25 million dollar losses, I'm putting the total accumulated debt of the team at over 300 million. What do you guys think?

 

[Dynamite Kid]

they're not getting the return they wanted.

Who isn't? Rogers? That really doesn't matter at this point until the deal is over. Plenty of offers will come in for a new deal.

 

[GKJ]

They can’t give the impression that they’ve given up if they want to be able to sell the team for what they currently find acceptable. The question will be if any prospective owners get impatient or cooled on the idea.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Wonder if since Sarver was forced out, the Coyotes backup plan was to try and make a deal with the new owner of the Suns.

Seems like an excellent opportunity for Ishbia and the city of Phoenix to take advantage of the situation while Merulo and the NHL are scrambling and clearly desperate to keep the coyotes in Arizona.