CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[tiredman]

I wonder how much they can get for the franchise. And how much debt the team has accumulated. And how much is owed to the league?

Considering both Quebecor and the guy in Houston seem to be cheap. Does the NHL really have the choice to be patient and hope to get their price eventually ?

 

[Slashers98]

Does Quebecor have the money? I mean you know the nhl is going to also for a fortune for the coyotes if they do relocate

Quebecor is bleeding money because people are cutting the cord and also not reading their crappy newspapers anymore.

 

[mouser]

Does Quebecor have the money? I mean you know the nhl is going to also for a fortune for the coyotes if they do relocate

Quebecor didn’t have the money during their expansion bid. Haven’t looked at their financials recently but would be surprised if that’s changed. Their plan appears to include another person or group to be majority or full owner of a team.

 

[Flukeshot]

I won't pretend to know the balance sheets, but from strictly a business perspective it would seem the Coyotes are really devaluing a franchise. If the Senators are worth up to $1B in Ottawa, having a team in Arizona losing what? $30M+ per season in what should be considered a more attractive market than Ottawa.

 

[Final Baton]

At least Québecor is now open to co-owning the team.

Which they weren't at the time of the expansion bid.

Finance minister Eric Girard said a consortium of Québec owners with enough capital can be assembled. But he hasn't disclosed the names that would be involved in such consortium.

 

[PredsHead]

Do the first 3 cities on the list have arenas that can accomodate hockey without the configuration looking extremely awkward? I thought Delta Center in SLC or whatever it’s called now was specifically made for basketball. I don’t even think it hosted hockey games i the 2002 Olympics

SLC can at least host games as they have a preseason game between Vegas and LA last year and next season as well. How awkward it is though I cannot speak to, but looks to be similar to how it was at Barclay's or how it was when the Coyotes moved to Phoenix and played at America West. Not ideal but would still likely generate more revenue than another season at Mullet will. Would assume SLC would begin looking to build a new arena if they did get the Coyotes.

 

[Boris Zubov]

How have the tv ratngs been locally for Coyotes games? Having a huge market is 1 thing. Having interested residents of the market is another.

About a year ago I read they'd been averaging between 11,000 & 12,500 viewers per game from 2019-2021. For a city of 5 million, these are less than ideal ratings. It's a dirty little secret that often goes overlooked when talking about the overall interest in the team. Of course fans of the team will argue they haven't been given reasons to tune in, but those numbers are extremely bleak.

 

[aqib]

The mayor of KC has been tweeting all day about this:

 

[Fidel Astro]

When Canadian teams move it is because of extenuating circumstances and it is a tragedy. When southern teams move it is because their fans suck and deserve it.

/s if it wasn't obvious.

Are you suggesting Coyotes fans don’t deserve it?

There are plenty of southern cities that have absolutely proven that hockey belongs there (as weird as it may have seemed at first). This isn’t a northern vs. southern thing.

My criticism is directed at the Coyotes and their fans in particular. I’ve seen zero evidence, after almost three decades, that people care about hockey there in any kind of meaningful way.

I’ll be happy when they inevitably move to anywhere — north or south — where they’ll actually be appreciated.

 

[GKJ]

If Mahomes wants in, you get him in.

 

[BattleBorn]

People like blue sky opportunity more than anything, that's why tech investments and growth investments in general are loved by the average people. You can buy now and just hold while things appreciate. It's been the standard for about 4 decades that things happen that way. It seems normal that values go up and growth potential is worth paying for up front.

With this recent shift in, well... everything economic and a lot of things political, I don't think that's the case in the coming years and decades and you can see some of the cards falling now everywhere portending that.

With that said, a growth market that hasn't seen growth still has value, but with the things that have happened, I think a shift to the demand side is in the cards and Phoenix just doesn't have the demand for hockey as has been proven out in the existence of the Coyotes.

It's big US market or Canada in my mind. Houston, Atlanta, Hamilton (assuming Copps is reno'ed correctly) maybe QC but I doubt it. I don't see small market US (SLC, KC, Sac) as real options in the current climate. I'm potentially very wrong, but that's how I see the setup now.

 

[tiredman]

Quebecor didn’t have the money during their expansion bid. Haven’t looked at their financials recently but would be surprised if that’s changed. Their plan appears to include another person or group to be majority or full owner of a team.

Interesting . Quebecor said exactly the opposite in 2015.

“We haven’t started soliciting partners. There was no meeting with any partner whatsoever. We are starting the expansion process for the NHL on our own. Quebecor has the financial capacity to buy the Quebec Nordiques alone. And only at the end of the process, if we get a club from the expansion, we will analyze with the board of directors if the time has come to solicit partners. And these will have to have the approval of the Board of Governors of the League.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/09/08/quebecor-optimiste-pour-le-retour-de-la-lnh

 

[PredsHead]

What about Milwaukee?

I probably should have included them as well, but not sure I have ever heard any credible sources say anything about it being a possibility. The Bucks have new ownership so it could possibly be in their plans, but the market is relatively small, has relatively low growth rate and is already pretty sports saturated.

 

[Llewzaher]

I find it pretty funny that all the NHL mouthpieces are saying the same thing so quickly after the decision. They got orders from Bettman for sure. It makes zero sense to remain in Arizona for a lame-duck year in an ECHL-caliber arena with an AHL roster. Clayton Keller said he wants out and he is their best player.

Where did Keller say he wanted out?

 

[TheLegend]

Are you suggesting Coyotes fans don’t deserve it?

There are plenty of southern cities that have absolutely proven that hockey belongs there (as weird as it may have seemed at first). This isn’t a northern vs. southern thing.

My criticism is directed at the Coyotes and their fans in particular. I’ve seen zero evidence, after almost three decades, that people care about hockey there in any kind of meaningful way.

I’ll be happy when they inevitably move to anywhere — north or south — where they’ll actually be appreciated.

You've had that position since they moved here and I haven't seen any evidence that's changed.

No fan deserve to be yanked around. But inevitably there's always going to be that small faction who latch onto their bitterness and take it out on another fan base that didn't do anything other than live in the market their team ended up at. EVEN after they get another team from some other market who's fan base now has to deal with the same grief they didn't deserve either.

 

[Ernie]

That was all at the feet of the Seattle City Council. There was never any request for regional cooperation on either of the arena proposals (the Hansen proposal in SoDo or what ended up being the new Climate Pledge Arena). This was all their doing and no one else's. And that was IIRC a source of some frustration for folks during that discussion here in Seattle.

Well there was the whole Tukwila thing for a bit

 

[tiredman]

Most people probably don't remember it, but Quebecor has been waiting for a team for 15 years now considering they have attempted to buy the Montreal Canadiens back in 2008.

At the time, Quebecor tabled a joint offer with Fonds FTQ and one of Rene Angélil company's.

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

 

[madhi19]

Then why would anybody want to buy them? A potential owner should just wait for an expansion slot to open up.

Probably because expansion prices will keep going up, it's already at $650 million. On the other hand the new expansion rules might make it more attractive than that barebone roster that sure will not be great right out of the gate. Some new market might be better off with a expansion team while other will not care one way or the other.

 

[Fidel Astro]

You've had that position since they moved here and I haven't seen any evidence that's changed.

No fan deserve to be yanked around. But inevitably there's always going to be that small faction who latch onto their bitterness and take it out on another fan base that didn't do anything other than live in the market their team ended up at. EVEN after they get another team from some other market who's fan base now has to deal with the same grief they didn't deserve either.

I just don’t understand why it’s taboo to ask why the fanbase isn’t showing up en masse to try to save their team.

Where are they?

 

[mouser]

Interesting . Quebecor said exactly the opposite in 2015.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/09/08/quebecor-optimiste-pour-le-retour-de-la-lnh

It may have been true at one time, but the CAD<>USD exchange rate took a major nosedive leading up to the expansion.

In Sep 2012 when the Videotron center broke ground it was $1.01 in favor of the CAD.

By June of 2015 when the NHL formally announced the expansion process it was down to $0.80 USD.

The exchange rate hit a low of $0.68 USD in January 2016 during the final phase of expansion evaluations.

Vegas expansion was announced in June of 2016.


I looked through Quebecors financials at the time and they were heavily impacted by the exchange rate swing. With many of their equipment and content expenses having to be paid in USD.

 

[Carlos Ranger]

Where did Keller say he wanted out?

Keller's father said this and then deleted the tweet.

I thought it was fake at first but was able to find his handle being tagged in that thread with several replies to a deleted tweet such as this which seem to corroborate it being authentic.

 

[Fenway]

 

[Nordskull]

Those here who have grey hairs (if any left) will remember the good ol WHA era with 4000 seats arenas, arena with no room for visiting team (Houston Summit (visiting team had to change in a nearby hotel)) etc etc.

On a serious note, last time I heard about KC, many years ago, I thought they didnt want an NHL team. The arena was already full packed of events etc.

Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[StreetHawk]

Wonder if since Sarver was forced out, the Coyotes backup plan was to try and make a deal with the new owner of the Suns.

Seems like an excellent opportunity for Ishbia and the city of Phoenix to take advantage of the situation while Merulo and the NHL are scrambling and clearly desperate to keep the coyotes in Arizona.

The arena was renovated but not retrofitted to house 17k got hockey. The obstructed views still exist. City was prepared to put more money in to knock it down to build it to accommodate nhl hockey but Sarver balked at that.
The issues that caused the coyotes to leave for Glendale still exist in phx.

 

[GordonGraham]

The league pretty much guaranteed that they will playing at Mullet in Sept 2023 will they go on the record saying the same for Sept 2024