CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[SupremeTeam16]

The arena was renovated but not retrofitted to house 17k got hockey. The obstructed views still exist. City was prepared to put more money in to knock it down to build it to accommodate nhl hockey but Sarver balked at that.

Worth finding out how desperate the coyotes and NHL are to keep hockey in the desert. At the very least maybe you can get something for hosting them at footprint instead of Mullet while they figure out their next move. Even if they closed off the obstructed view areas or sold those tickets dirt cheap they probably won’t fill the place until the team is relevant again but being able to have 10-12k in the stands is better then what they have now. But maybe there’s a bigger deal to be made either for a big retrofit at the current Suns home to accommodate hockey or for a new building/entertainment district if there’s a suitable location. The Coyotes seem to be extremely sour about Tempe telling them no, would be funny to see them take the team right next door to Phoenix. Of course Mereulo never actually gave a shit about a hockey team, it was all about the opportunity to develop an entertainment district so if he can’t do that or won’t it won’t be as profitable then he’ll either try to find another city primed for a development opportunity or sell the team.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The league pretty much guaranteed that they will playing at Mullet in Sept 2023 will they go on the record saying the same for Sept 2024

Of course they won't, they'd be stupid to do that.

 

[StreetHawk]

Worth finding out how desperate the coyotes and NHL are to keep hockey in the desert. At the very least maybe you can get something for hosting them at footprint instead of Mullet while they figure out their next move. Even if they closed off the obstructed view areas or sold those tickets dirt cheap they probably won’t fill the place until the team is relevant again but being able to have 10-12k in the stands is better then what they have now. But maybe there’s a bigger deal to be made either for a big retrofit at the current Suns home to accommodate hockey or for a new building/entertainment district if there’s a suitable location. The Coyotes seem to be extremely sour about Tempe telling them no, would be funny to see them take the team right next door to Phoenix. Of course Mereulo never actually gave a shit about a hockey team, it was all about the opportunity to develop an entertainment district so if he can’t do that or won’t it won’t be as profitable then he’ll either try to find another city primed for a development opportunity or sell the team.

Sarver kept the coyotes out of Phoenix for business. One less competitor for fans money. How does the new suns owner benefit allowing the coyotes to play in footprint?

For AZ fans having the jets relocate there probably in hindsight was a bad idea. If the jets had landed in say Portland then maybe there would be a legit owner who would have spearheaded a new arena in Scottsdale or something. Doesn’t seem like any owner they’ve had cared about the long term viability of the team.

 

[Shwan]

Worth finding out how desperate the coyotes and NHL are to keep hockey in the desert. At the very least maybe you can get something for hosting them at footprint instead of Mullet while they figure out their next move. Even if they closed off the obstructed view areas or sold those tickets dirt cheap they probably won’t fill the place until the team is relevant again but being able to have 10-12k in the stands is better then what they have now. But maybe there’s a bigger deal to be made either for a big retrofit at the current Suns home to accommodate hockey or for a new building/entertainment district if there’s a suitable location. The Coyotes seem to be extremely sour about Tempe telling them no, would be funny to see them take the team right next door to Phoenix. Of course Mereulo never actually gave a shit about a hockey team, it was all about the opportunity to develop an entertainment district so if he can’t do that or won’t it won’t be as profitable then he’ll either try to find another city primed for a development opportunity or sell the team.

The Suns just completed $200M+ renovations that would make zamboni operation alone just hell, and trying to maintain the ice through the season while having to cover it up every other night for Suns game would just make it soup. If the PA is already mad at playing at Mullett arena I can't see them any more content at Footprint at this point and I definitely can't see the Suns willing to turn around and accept more renovations to undo what they just did.

At the end of the day it comes down to your second point. Any possible avenue to keeping the Coyotes in Arizona involves Meruelo either accepting defeat and building a modest stand alone Arena like Honda Center or the league finds someone to buy the team who can afford to actually 100% privately finance an entertainment district.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

GKJ brought it up in the last thread.:



One thing I have always wondered is why municipalities can't work together. Why can't Tempe and Phoenix (or whatever Counties and Townships are involved) work out a deal to split the cost but also split the revenue that would be generated?

I haven't heard a single economist claim an arena made money for a city, so why split the costs?

It amazes me that cities even fund it I think it's an ego thing for mayors, city councilors, governors etc to keep/get a team as it is for a rich billionaire to own a team.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Isn't the referendum just a popularity poll? I've heard of cities voting against an arena proposal and the city politicos turning around and doing if anyway.

 

[Shwan]

I think it's an ego thing for mayors, city councilors, governors etc to keep/get a team as it is for a rich billionaire to own a team.

You're not wrong. Individuals in the Tempe government were conspiring to poach the Coyotes even before the moment Meruelo bought the team.

Back in August 2019, Donna Kennedy, Tempe’s economic development director and Ken Jones, the city’s CFO, sent emails back and forth about buying an ad in the Coyotes’ annual magazine-style publication, but worried about what message they could be sending.

If Meruelo bought the team just to use it as leverage for an expensive real estate development he knew Tempe would be the mark the second he had the keys.

 

[Fenway]

The league pretty much guaranteed that they will playing at Mullet in Sept 2023 will they go on the record saying the same for Sept 2024

Unlikely UNLESS the Suns and Coyotes make a deal

It could come down to a bidding war between the NBA Rockets and Jazz with Atlanta sniffing.

 

[Fenway]

Isn't the referendum just a popularity poll? I've heard of cities voting against an arena proposal and the city politicos turning around and doing if anyway.

Not in this case - the vote wasn't close so Tempe officials will accept it.

 

[Fatass]

Whichever city gets the Coyotes can consider themselves lucky. They will be getting a young team with a great future. They will be instantly good.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

You're not wrong. Individuals in the Tempe government were conspiring to poach the Coyotes even before Meruelo bought the team.



If Meruelo bought the team just to use it as leverage for an expensive real estate development he knew Tempe would be the mark the second he had the keys.

Interesting.

And correct me if I'm wrong but these referendums aren't binding for the politicians, nicht wahr?

 

[Shwan]

Interesting.

And correct me if I'm wrong but these referendums aren't binding for the politicians, nicht wahr?

I don't think so but I'm not quite sure if they would have to start back at step one at the Request for Proposal stage or if they could just re-approve the current deal at the next executive session.

 

[mouser]

Isn't the referendum just a popularity poll? I've heard of cities voting against an arena proposal and the city politicos turning around and doing if anyway.

No. Sometimes municipalities will float non-binding ideas on a ballot and still later approve legislation covering that idea in spite of opposition.

This referendum was on ordinances and bills the Tempe city council has already voted on and passed. The referendum is an opportunity for the citizens to “veto” the city council decision, which they did. Absent that “veto” the passed legislation stands.

In theory Tempe and the Coyotes could negotiate a new deal, requiring a new Tempe city council vote approval. Likely leading to another future referendum which the citizens might also veto. That’s not going to happen.

If the Coyotes get a new arena built it’s going to be outside of Tempe.

 

[TheLegend]

Craig Morgan is hinting he's learned more about it. Will have to wait and see if he drops an article.

 

[Fenway]

No. Sometimes municipalities will float non-binding ideas on a ballot and still later approve legislation covering that idea in spite of opposition.

This referendum was on ordinances and bills the Tempe city council has already voted on and passed. The referendum is an opportunity for the citizens to “veto” the city council decision, which they did. Absent that “veto” the passed legislation stands.

In theory Tempe and the Coyotes could negotiate a new deal, requiring a new Tempe city council vote approval. Likely leading to another future referendum which the citizens might also veto. That’s not going to happen.

If the Coyotes get a new arena built it’s going to be outside of Tempe.

@mouser - Are the Coyotes generating any income from their sports betting license from the state?

Could they go back to Glendale and beg for a long-term deal?

AND we don't want to guess about the future of Bally Sports Arizona.

 

[TheLegend]

You're not wrong. Individuals in the Tempe government were conspiring to poach the Coyotes even before Meruelo bought the team.



If Meruelo bought the team just to use it as leverage for an expensive real estate development he knew Tempe would be the mark the second he had the keys.

It wasn't a secret the Coyotes were looking to head to the east valley after Glendale terminated the 15-year lease.

But even Greg Jamison was looking at sites in Scottsdale when he tried to purchase the team in 2013. I know that from an acquaintance who worked with Jamison himself on a presentation plan.


And Meruelo officially bought the team in March of 2019.

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

BTW.... same article you link also notes how Glendale city councilman Bart Turner sent an email to then Tempe councilwoman Lauren Kuby (one of the leaders of Tempe1st) with Katie Strang's article on the Coyotes "toxic workplace" attached asking the question (paraphrased) "Do you really want to work with these people??"

So I don't really think it's a matter of Tempe doing any poaching as it was Glendale trying to poison the negotiations.

That's all water under the bridge though.

 

[TheLegend]

@mouser - Are the Coyotes generating any income from their sports betting license from the state?

Could they go back to Glendale and beg for a long-term deal?

AND we don't want to guess about the future of Bally Sports Arizona.

Not mouser.... but:

1) Very little compared to the big hitters. This is the February 2023 report which is the latest the state has available.

https://gaming.az.gov/sites/default/files/EW%20Website%20Revenue%20Report-Feb%202023.pdf

2) It's not a long term solution.

3) Not a guess... but last thing Gutierrez mentioned was the team was still negotiating with Bally's. This was right before the Sun's announced they were going to a local distributor (that's since been nullified by the BK court)

 

[LadyStanley]

Time's up for Gary Bettman's obsession with the Coyotes and Arizona

You might imagine that even Gary Bettman is finally prepared to admit defeat on the Coyotes. But knowing his playbook, he can’t or won’t.

theathletic.com

Editorial. Duhatcshek calls on Bettman to allow relocation

 

[Scouter]

The league pretty much guaranteed that they will playing at Mullet in Sept 2023 will they go on the record saying the same for Sept 2024

They intend to play there, but it's still possible they won't, there are many outs to break the lease.

 

[Llama19]

Glendale, Coyotes officials react after Tempe voters reject hockey arena deal

To quote:

"Glendale City Manager Kevin Phelps, who has been an outspoken critic of how the Arizona Coyotes handled its tenure at the Westgate Entertainment District, told The Arizona Republic he thought Tempe voters would have approved the deal for a new arena and entertainment district there but the project would have never been built.

"I want to acknowledge that I come from a position of bias and a position of experience. I've always questioned the ability for the team that was put in place, the development team, to deliver on such a complex, high intensity-development, especially as the financial market changed dramatically," he said Wednesday."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2023/05/17/glendale-reacts-arizona-coyotes-arena-deal-election-rejected-tempe-voters/70229186007/

 

[PredsHead]

Craig Morgan is hinting he's learned more about it. Will have to wait and see if he drops an article.

Correct me if I am wrong but there are five ways I can possibly think of them staying in Arizona long term.

1. Find a new municipality to partner with and try another TED type proposal, Not sure there would be enough time to get something like that done without extending the lease at ASU and I think the NHLPA would throw an absolute fit over that. Would also likely require another public vote of some sort,

2. Partner with one of the local tribes to build on reservation land. Lots of potential issues with that setup including that Meruelo would almost certainly have to be a tenant not the owner of the arena.

3. Sell the team to Matt Ishbia and he keeps them at ASU while starting another renovation at Footprint? Not sure how much he would want that but I suppose it could be an option if the price was right.

4. Sell to Bob Parsons who also buys the arena from Glendale and puts the original Westgate dream finally under one owner? Almost certainly not going to happen, but since there is an arena sitting there I tried to come up with a possible scenario where they could go back to Glendale and this was the only way I could see it happening.

5. Refurbish Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum perhaps as part of some bigger project with the fairgrounds? Not sure it is even possible to renovate it to it or if that part of town would be able to support an NHL franchise but it is an arena in the area so I thought it should at least be mentioned.

 

[Fenway]

Not mouser.... but:

1) Very little compared to the big hitters. This is the February 2023 report which is the latest the state has available.

https://gaming.az.gov/sites/default/files/EW%20Website%20Revenue%20Report-Feb%202023.pdf

2) It's not a long term solution.

3) Not a guess... but last thing Gutierrez mentioned was the team was still negotiating with Bally's. This was right before the Sun's announced they were going to a local distributor (that's since been nullified by the BK court)

@TheLegend

The current RSN crisis also involves AT&T Sportsnet which is separate from the Sinclair/Bally mess ( Utah Jazz, Vegas Golden Knights)

The NHL was not blindsided by the Tempe vote and they have a backup plan.

My gut says Atlanta

 

[Scouter]

No this is not a possibility. There is enough people with deep pockets out there that would love to own a professional sports franchise. It’s funny how potential owners come out of the woodwork when reality begins to set in that a franchise actually legitimately is available instead of rumours, media sensationalism, and scuttlebut. I would not at all be surprised if there are potential owners seriously considering their options in Portland, KC, and Salt Lake City…

It is possible as everything is on the table now. Apparently there are not as many people out there with deep pockets with interest as you think, the Houston owner is not willing to pony up the cash for an NHL team according to Friedman. The owner in Portland has no interest in the NHL. KC has not shown NHL interest. The only other possibly viable person who is the Utah Jazz owner, but it's not an ideal situation for the NHL due to the building not really being NHL standards at this time.

 

[Shwan]

@mouser - Are the Coyotes generating any income from their sports betting license from the state?

As of the latest report (February) they won $4,094 off a $211,935 handle (3rd lowest handle for February) so Saharabets is definitely *still* losing money on it's endeavor when you account for expenses.

 

[madhi19]

They kind of need to come out and say something like that regardless of what's happening. You want to put water on the speculation, not fuel the fire.

Yep the cold statement was a bit too honest. This is the backpedaling you do after saying a bit too much too soon...