CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[hangman005]

I own a residence in Scottsdale and some vacant lots in Goodyear, but I'm more worried about your Arizona politicians and the delusions of my property manager than I am about Verde, LOL. Still, stranger things have happened...

You haven't yet been approached to build an 18,000 person arena in the basement of that property?

 

[LadyStanley]

Ah

 

[Rob]

Ah

Don't blame him. He will play before more fans at the U of M. Also can try again to win that National championship.

Probably hoping they relocate after next season.

 

[GKJ]

Ah

Don't blame him. He will play before more fans at the U of M. Also can try again to win that National championship.

Probably hoping they relocate after next season.

You have Clayton Keller asking questions too. Others will begin to. Just have to wonder about that stuff because the Coyotes are going to be nothing more than the league’s dumping ground until this is figured out. When players dreamed of playing in the NHL, this kind of situation was not what they envisioned. They didn’t know to envision it.

Also, does Cooley have an NIL?

 

[bleedblue94]

The Cooley situation is going to become fascinating if there is not resolution by this time next summer bc if he chooses to go back for his Jr year he is then looking at just one more to UGA status. I hate this bc this would be just another thing in line for the coyotes fans to have to hear about and deal with. I just want some damn stability for this franchise

 

[Boris Zubov]

You have Clayton Keller asking questions too. Others will begin to. Just have to wonder about that stuff because the Coyotes are going to be nothing more than the league’s dumping ground until this is figured out. When players dreamed of playing in the NHL, this kind of situation was not what they envisioned. They didn’t know to envision it.

Also, does Cooley have an NIL?

NIL?

 

[GKJ]

NIL?

Name, imagine, and likeness deal

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The Cooley situation is going to become fascinating if there is not resolution by this time next summer bc if he chooses to go back for his Jr year he is then looking at just one more to UGA status. I hate this bc this would be just another thing in line for the coyotes fans to have to hear about and deal with. I just want some damn stability for this franchise

in the extraordinarily unlikely event that he doesnt sign after next year, they should trade him because by that point it would be abundantly clear he doesn't want to play for them at all so they should cut their losses and move on.

He said it himself, the uncertainty surrounding the franchise made him nervous to sign. I would imagine this is the last "unknown" year in Mullett Arena for the Coyotes; by the end of the 2023-2024 season they likely must either have an ironclad agreement in place for a new arena or they're being relocated. I don't know how much longer this will realistically go on but what do I know.

 

[mouser]

You have Clayton Keller asking questions too. Others will begin to. Just have to wonder about that stuff because the Coyotes are going to be nothing more than the league’s dumping ground until this is figured out. When players dreamed of playing in the NHL, this kind of situation was not what they envisioned. They didn’t know to envision it.

Also, does Cooley have an NIL?

I think I’ve seen a report that Coley has a NIL, but any hockey player NIL is going to be small potatoes compared to a NHL contract.

The big NIL money is almost entirely going to football and basketball players, with the occasional exception of an Olympic level athlete in a different sport.

 

[GKJ]

I think I’ve seen a report that Coley has a NIL, but any hockey player NIL is going to be small potatoes compared to a NHL contract.

The big NIL money is almost entirely going to football and basketball players, with the occasional exception of an Olympic level athlete in a different sport.

I don’t expect an NIL deal to rival that of an NHL ELC, especially since he could have signed before the end of the season, but I’d think a program like Minnesota would have among the most to spend on it.

 

[mouser]

I don’t expect an NIL deal to rival that of an NHL ELC, especially since he could have signed before the end of the season, but I’d think a program like Minnesota would have among the most to spend on it.

Agree on the NIL, and don’t want to turn this into a Cooley thread. One important factor I will add is Cooley was never going to sign before the end of this season, independent of any franchise stability questions. There was no financial benefit, only downside for Cooley to sign early.

At age 19 he would not have burned a year on the ELC. And making it worse: the league limits performance bonuses when signing late in the season. Combine that limit with a different restriction covering maximum year over year contract compensation increase and the maximum Performance Bonuses Cooley could have received for a ELC starting in 2022-23 is $2.85m over three years. Whereas if he signed a ELC starting in 2023-24 he could get $10.5m in performance bonuses, same as Slafkovsky.

 

[PredsHead]

Coyotes still have many potential arena solutions in Valley.

To quote:

"There are four confirmed facts that impact the future of the Coyotes in Arizona.

First, team president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez confirmed on Friday that the team is not for sale.

Second, a league source confirmed this week that the NHL has no desire or plan to force owner Alex Meruelo to sell the team.

Third, despite reports to the contrary, the league has set no timetable on the Coyotes finding another arena solution in the Valley (more on this later).

Fourth, the league believes that there are several viable sites in the Valley for a new arena."

Source (Craig Morgan): www.gophnx.com/2023/05/20/examining-possible-valley-sites-for-coyotes-arena/

He also mentions about the possibility of building on tribal land:

While the location looks ideal, there are numerous complications with building on tribal lands. First and foremost the tribe would likely want different ownership and the league and Coyotes have made it clear that Alex Meruelo is not selling the team.

If that's true is Alex Meruelo's only way forward in Mesa? Then it would essentially be in Mat Ishbia's hands as to whether or not the team stays in Arizona.

 

[Digital Kid]

I am curious why the Coyotes and the Tuscon Roadrunners don't just flip arenas so that maybe the NHL team gets 8,900 attendance in Tuscon.

Was moving to Tuscon to at least double attendance never explored?

Maybe easier said than done.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I am curious why the Coyotes and the Tuscon Roadrunners don't just flip arenas so that maybe the NHL team gets 8,900 attendance in Tuscon.

Was moving to Tuscon to at least double attendance never explored?

Maybe easier said than done.

Because Tucson...isn't the Phoenix Valley. It's not where the fanbase and all the wealth live.

It's as silly as the Red Wings temporarily moving to Grand Rapids.

 

[GKJ]

PA trying to create their leverage here.

 

[LPHabsFan]

If anyone is still believing what's being sold by the team about how they now suddenly have multiple options and they can be profitable with a standalone arena, you deserve what you get.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Because Tucson...isn't the Phoenix Valley. It's not where the fanbase and all the wealth live.

It's as silly as the Red Wings temporarily moving to Grand Rapids.

This entire situation went beyond silly over a decade ago. Why stop now?

 

[Boris Zubov]

If anyone is still believing what's being sold by the team about how they now suddenly have multiple options and they can be profitable with a standalone arena, you deserve what you get.

I don't think the bolded is talked about enough. If a team needs a 2.5 billion dollar entertainment complex with residences in order to be profitable, it's a pretty strong indication that the region isn't a viable hockey market at this point.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Meanwhile, Vegas has been a model franchise...this is unreal.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Meanwhile, Vegas has been a model franchise...this is unreal.

It's really unfair to compare the two situations. The Strip presents Vegas a unique situation that only the Rangers can match due to NYC tourism.

 

[Lions67]

Because Tucson...isn't the Phoenix Valley. It's not where the fanbase and all the wealth live.

It's as silly as the Red Wings temporarily moving to Grand Rapids.

Didn’t the Coyotes want to play games in Saskatoon? Pretty sure ( I don’t have a map in front of me lol ) that Saskatoon is also not part of the “Valley”
Now THAT was silly!

 

[Tawnos]

I don't think the bolded is talked about enough. If a team needs a 2.5 billion dollar entertainment complex with residences in order to be profitable, it's a pretty strong indication that the region isn't a viable hockey market at this point.

Nobody talks about it because the concept is that they need the other revenue streams in the short term while they stabilize and finally grow the fan base. The “at this point” you end the post with is the whole point. Phoenix has the potential to be a viable market, but it needs the right treatment.

If you look at a team like the Nashville Predators, they did struggle financially for a while. What really turned things around was the market-specific marketing campaign (Hockey-Tonk, Smashville, etc) that started up under new ownership and coincided with the team feeling like more than just a bubble team in the late-00s, early-10s. That was when the Predators gained the reputation for the loud fans and building they have now. It was generated by the way the team was marketed.

The thing is, marketing like that only works when you have a good building to pull the fans into and it also takes a few years to build some momentum with it. I thought I remembered seeing that Meruelo & co do have a plan to do this kind of thing, but the fact that they really haven’t done it yet suggests that they’re not going to spend the money on it until they’re in the new building.

Eventually, the Coyotes themselves should become profitable on their own. All the other revenue streams are the short-term buoys.

 

[Stumbledore]

Didn’t the Coyotes want to play games in Saskatoon? Pretty sure ( I don’t have a map in front of me lol ) that Saskatoon is also not part of the “Valley”
Now THAT was silly!

If the Coyotes actually had a fanbase, don't you think it would be reflected in local TV viewing?

I've read various past prevarications about the difficulty of getting to see games on this station or that cable or deficient streams or whatever. But stop and think for a minute. If you're a real hockey fan, you drill through all the problems and get a package that allows you to watch your team.

I can't believe how few people in the Valley actually bother to watch a game on TV. With all the millions of folks in Arizona, the TV numbers are the strongest confirmation that there are not enough hockey fans there to support an NHL team.

 

[GKJ]

Nobody talks about it because the concept is that they need the other revenue streams in the short term while they stabilize and finally grow the fan base. The “at this point” you end the post with is the whole point. Phoenix has the potential to be a viable market, but it needs the right treatment.

If you look at a team like the Nashville Predators, they did struggle financially for a while. What really turned things around was the market-specific marketing campaign (Hockey-Tonk, Smashville, etc) that started up under new ownership and coincided with the team feeling like more than just a bubble team in the late-00s, early-10s. That was when the Predators gained the reputation for the loud fans and building they have now. It was generated by the way the team was marketed.

The thing is, marketing like that only works when you have a good building to pull the fans into and it also takes a few years to build some momentum with it. I thought I remembered seeing that Meruelo & co do have a plan to do this kind of thing, but the fact that they really haven’t done it yet suggests that they’re not going to spend the money on it until they’re in the new building.

Eventually, the Coyotes themselves should become profitable on their own. All the other revenue streams are the short-term buoys.

It’s interesting you bring up Nashville, as it’s exactly what Vegas and Seattle have done. Others are going there as well. Take to the personality of the market.

 

[GKJ]

If the Coyotes actually had a fanbase, don't you think it would be reflected in local TV viewing?

I've read various past prevarications about the difficulty of getting to see games on this station or that cable or deficient streams or whatever. But stop and think for a minute. If you're a real hockey fan, you drill through all the problems and get a package that allows you to watch your team.

I can't believe how few people in the Valley actually bother to watch a game on TV. With all the millions of folks in Arizona, the TV numbers are the strongest confirmation that there are not enough hockey fans there to support an NHL team.

Unless you’re like on the level of the top franchises in your sport, if your team sucks, people ain’t watching. NFL doesn’t count. Just how it is.