CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[Final Baton]

I really think that in 5 years we'll be looking at a 36 teams league.

Remember : there are only 27 US teams in the NHL right now (while other leagues have 30 and up).

 

[MMC]

I really think that in 5 years we'll be looking at a 36 teams league.

Remember : there are only 27 US teams in the NHL right now (while other leagues have 30 and up).

Only the NFL has 30+ US teams

 

[Lions67]

That’s like saying “I know a guy, who knows a guy who has a friend’s uncle who knows a few guys who might be able to do a deal…”

How is that any different from all the owners/potential owners that the Coyotes have had over all these years lol

 

[Final Baton]

Only the NFL has 30+ US teams

29 is what I should've written indeed. Still more than the NHL(25). You guys get my point.

 

[sawchuk1971]

Phoenix Business Journal article with a little more detail on 'piles of dirt' options...

With Tempe off the table, here's where Arizona Coyotes could build arena

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/05/18/az-coyotes-prime-spots-phoenix-metro-arena.html

can you summarize the article? its behind a paywall...

 

[aqib]

This is an excellent read.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/18/tempe-coyotes-recap-what-happened-and-what-is-next-for-the-city/70228017007/

When one of the leaders of the opposition breaks down in analytic fashion exactly how the other side lost.

So we've seen reports that have the opposition outspending the pro-arena campaign 10-1 and this says the opposite. What's true

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I mean, what is it with this shit? I can come up with 4 different ways to get in front of this week's happenings than this gimmick. Maybe its just because I'm old, tired, and need a nap

Maybe the team has just given up and accepted their fate, like someone standing on the gallows with a noose around his neck.

They've just checked out and now the inmates are running the asylum.

 

[KevFu]

The point is the same & and the drive will be even further for fans in the West Valley to Mesa.

Regardless, I've never been a big proponent that arena location was the biggest issue that plagues this market.

That's a failure to understand the market topography.

It's interchanges and GETTING ON the two highways in Tempe that take you West to Glendale is the problem. They back up and have 40-minute slow downs, each, and you have to go through two.

You don't have the same problem going to other direction, because you're ALREADY ON the route. Just get off for the arena, wherever it is. It's smooth sailing. Eight more miles of smooth sailing is fine.

Uncertainty, a string of awful ownership & a terrible product on the ice has just about killed off whatever interest there was in the area. They have loyal fans, but way too few of them. Who could blame the locals for being completely disinterested at this point.

You're not wrong about them HAVING these problems, too. But that doesn't mean the arena location wasn't a problem.

 

[MMC]

 

[MMC]

Welp, they've surpassed this already

 

[RogerRoger]

They'll just tweet that they'll build an arena in Arizona. And they'll get roasted.

 

[Llama19]

They'll just tweet that they'll build an arena in Arizona. And they'll get roasted.

I envision something like this:

"Our arena plans are, we are committed to Arizona, with NEW Jobs, NEW Revenues at NO Cost to whatever taxpayers want us (except Phoenix, Glendale, and Tempe)!"

 

[KevFu]

So how does this Mesa option track? Does the acreage work? I'm also wondering about the basics like distance, traffic, etc

I mean I can read a map, as can anyone else. However I'd like the locals input regarding any logistical benefits, hangups, fan-base still to draw from, too far etc etc.

I mean, anyone can look at a map of where I live (Pinellas County) and see its only 15 miles wide at its centerpoint and 30 miles North/South

What they don't realize is it takes a f***ing hour to get anywhere around here. That's why I want local feedback

I don't know the parking and size and nearby food/shopping options that well. But traffic, I got under control.

The Mesa location is a little bit "worse" for traffic than the Tempe plan because people driving from the north/west would need to GET OFF the highway and take city streets the last few miles, unlike the Tempe plan, which was "Get off, go a block, arrive." But it's still "fine" and better than Glendale, because it's accessible.

As for mass transit, the Lightrail goes from downtown to Mesa, but it's about 2.7 miles from the nearest train stop. the Tempe site was MUCH better for that: one mile to the front door.

Basically, anything in Phoenix, Scotsday or Tempe is GREAT. Anything in WEST MESA is still solid.

Anything else is problematic for attracting as many fans as possible.

 

[StreetHawk]

I really think that in 5 years we'll be looking at a 36 teams league.

Remember : there are only 27 US teams in the NHL right now (while other leagues have 30 and up).

Let's also keep things in perspective.

MLB has 2 teams in Chicago. OAK is looking to relocate. TB is still dealing with a stadium while MLB would like to expand.

NBA, for the NHL to enter an NBA market, would need the NBA owner, like the Jazz one to be all in on the NHL, not half hearted like Houston. Otherwise the NHL won't go there, thus at the mercy of the NBA's owners desires. NHL isn't going to New Orleans, Indiana, San Antonio, and some of these other places. Also, remember, just because an NBA team has a less than decade old arena, doesn't mean it's NHL compliant for 17K fans. Warriors asked the Sharks to join them at Chase, they said no, and thus Chase doesn't support NHL hockey, similar to Barclays. Several other NBA arenas are like that as well. If they didn't ever expect to have the NHL in the future, many new arenas were not built to accommodate them because it is both cheaper to build and has better sight lines for basketball and concerts.

NFL is the king of NA sports. But even they need to be careful about where they place teams.

 

[DoyleG]

If the SM Manager willingly typed this out, he's a candidate for the insane asylum.

If he was forced, he's an object of pity.

 

[bleedblue94]

 

[TheLegend]

So how does this Mesa option track? Does the acreage work? I'm also wondering about the basics like distance, traffic, etc

I mean I can read a map, as can anyone else. However I'd like the locals input regarding any logistical benefits, hangups, fan-base still to draw from, too far etc etc.

I mean, anyone can look at a map of where I live (Pinellas County) and see its only 15 miles wide at its centerpoint and 30 miles North/South

What they don't realize is it takes a f***ing hour to get anywhere around here. That's why I want local feedback

So does going further east alienate what could've been fans from Glendale who would've made it to Tempe?

Are the restaurants and businesses around Fiest Mall still operational?

Parking - Is there enough parking on the site with arena on it?

Would it be easy to get to and get out of?

Public Transpo?

The basics

Just what I know off the top of my head.

Fiesta Mall covers 80 acres (per Wiki). TED was going to be 43 acres.

Access is right off the Superstition Freeway (US 60) about 3 miles east of the Loop101. Traffic on the US60 can be a bear during rush hour but there’s room for widening.

There is light rail out that way but it runs up along Main Street which is a couple of miles north. Would require a shuttle type service similar to the one planned for TED.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That's a failure to understand the market topography.

It's interchanges and GETTING ON the two highways in Tempe that take you West to Glendale is the problem. They back up and have 40-minute slow downs, each, and you have to go through two.

You don't have the same problem going to other direction, because you're ALREADY ON the route. Just get off for the arena, wherever it is. It's smooth sailing. Eight more miles of smooth sailing is fine.




You're not wrong about them HAVING these problems, too. But that doesn't mean the arena location wasn't a problem.

We've wrestled on this issue before. I've spent enough time in the region for work to understand the traffic issues. The population is expanding & the west valley is growing rapidly. Even if that wasn't the case & the valley was easier to navigate, putting an arena in Tempe or Mesa, or even Scottsdale isn't the magic elixir the NHL & the team would have you think it is. All of these towns would've failed if they encountered the circumstances that the team in Glendale endured.

 

[TheLegend]

How is that any different from all the owners/potential owners that the Coyotes have had over all these years lol

The Coyotes have at least made the physical attempt instead of just talking about it.

 

[PCSPounder]

But the commentary was that the San Diego market was "too close" to Los Angeles/Anaheim. Anyone who thinks that hockey fans in San Diego can just go to Ducks/Kings games have never driven in Southern California.

Either San Diego is "separate" from LA and can have their own team (if an owner wants to put one there). OR if you consider that one big "mega region," then they can have three teams because it's both bigger and more spread out than the NY-NJ-CT mega-region.

3.5 years ago, I’m by LA Memorial Coliseum on a Friday at 4:30, and I’m already distressed. I had a 7 pm game in Ontario. Not even 60 miles (San Diego is twice the distance). Yes, I missed 14 game minutes.

Among other things, this demonstrates how many people commute from the Inland Empire. And what I’m describing is “normal slowing” in LA traffic radio parlance.

 

[Ciao]

Has this opinion piece been posted already?: Column: A city fights back against the ol' arena flimflam

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

Has anyone seen the arena plans? Cute rickroll video by Coyotes socials manager. What a tool.

 

[Roadrage]

I wonder if Meruelo had any idea where the vote would swing? Their shop sounds genuinely surprised and even shocked it failed, but to a neutral observer it felt like the cards were stacked against them a bit and that's not even related to the Coyotes.

These kinds of projects always sound good to sports fans talking about it on a sports forum, but the general public, over and over again, absolutely loathes any kind of sports spending and it takes a mountain of effort to convince them otherwise. It almost hardly matters how good the deal is, if they're worried about roads, infrastructure, taxes, health care etc. they do not want to see a nickel go to stadium projects.

I don't understand what Meruelo was hoping for if it's true he spent less then the cost of a new Ferrari on promoting a $2.1 billion project that was supposed to be the crown jewel of the district? Good will from knocking on doors and trying to explain a complex deal in less then 3 minutes before the homeowner says thanks but no interested.

 

[PCSPounder]

Interesting.

And correct me if I'm wrong but these referendums aren't binding for the politicians, nicht wahr?

The Seattle Mariners held a vote in the city to get out of the Kingdome. It failed. Then the State of Washington stepped in and got it done.

These aren’t non-binding referendums. But you can go government shopping sometimes.

 

[BattleBorn]

No idea on that one. The first step though as Verde Investments owns the land would probably be buying it off them or partnering with them.

So the same dude that had the option on that little part of the TED site/landfill also owns part of the mall?