CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[Tawnos]

All this talk of SLC, Portland, KC, Milwaukee, Sacramento is just going totally ass backwards from Phoenix metro. Small secondary markets. I fail to see how these are attractive even vis a vis Quebec especially in terms of generating money for the league.

Feels like a weird alternate universe timeline in NHL expansion/relocation history that these are even being considered in 2023, a year ago every single person on BoH would have laughed these options out of the room. They'd be better off finding something - anything at all - that will work in the Phoenix area.

Houston or Atlanta - yes even a third try - is where they really should prioritize going to, and failing that Quebec (or maybe even San Diego?) should be the natural backup options. May as well put a team in Omaha otherwise.

Portland, KC, and Milwaukee have been kicked around these boards for years. SLC and Sacramento are relative newcomers and are entirely based on the interest in those market's NBA owners expressing interest.

I don't disagree... Houston and Atlanta would be the best targets. But without a more willing owner in the former and an arena and ownership group in the latter, other options are much more likely to happen.

I've said this over and over: "generating money for the league" isn't the primary focus of the franchise location process.

 

[JS19]

Streaming is quite simply an unprofitable business and we've already seen Netflix shake down their customers and search the couch cusions for loose change.

Disney isn't far behind.

Streaming is very quickly going to converge into a cable model. It's an inevitability at this point because direct to consumer just simply isn't profitable.

Streaming is struggling for completely different reasons. Netflix, Disney+, etc. have to put down millions for new content, and the diminishing returns (or outright losing subs) in subscriber base makes it difficult to justify the cost of content.

Sports leagues can avoid this entirely because they don't need to create new content or sink millions into content in the hopes of getting subscribers. Their content is the regular season + playoffs, and that's perennial. All the sports leagues would have to do is offer a strong service. The wall will be if it gets to a point where streaming is cannibalizing TV rights (that won't happen for decades).

 

[Llama19]

Twitter thread...interesting read...

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I really don't think you can compare original content creation with sports broadcasts when you're talking about the streaming market. Netflix and Disney have been running bloated production schedules without guarantees on all, or even most, of their products drawing in new subscribers. Sports already has advertising built into the structure of the game and relatively speaking, broadcasts are fairly streamlined.... plus guaranteed audiences in a way that other television doesn't get. They're really different animals.

Advertising revenue was just one aspect of how networks made money though.

Networks also made a killing off of carriage fees, which are replaced by the far less lucrative subscription fees.

Streaming companies will have no choice but to charge a super premium tier for sports content and that's going to severely limit their reach.

With legacy TV the networks were able to get casual viewership because the channels had wide reach.

A streaming model doesn't have this luxury. All casual viewership will be gone and you'll only have hardcore viewership available.

That will devalue the potential advertising revenue. There's also the exclusivity aspect. This will only be available on a single service, which will also reduce the potential audience.

Direct to consumer isn't going to be profitable and will shrink the audience greatly.

 

[Shwan]

She's not wrong. I'll add my thoughts in a different post

@DoctorRhetorica is a gem and I hope she packages this momentum into a council run.

On the other end Woods and the vulnerable council members have an easy rebound they just have to approve the Venue Projects/Sunbelt Holdings Hayden Mill proposal to finally do something with it and then just package it as "Tempe Pride" and they'll probably keep their seats.

 

[Llama19]

@DoctorRhetorica is a gem and I hope she packages this momentum into a council run.

On the other end Woods and the vulnerable council members have an easy rebound they just have to approve the Venue Projects/Sunbelt Holdings Hayden Mill proposal to finally do something with it and then just package it as "Tempe Pride" and they'll probably keep their seats.

Well..there is this, too...

Building a 'makerhood'
More than five years in, the Tempe Maker District continues its transformation, attracting new businesses looking for a sense of community

To quote:

"Tempe officials approved a plan in 2018 to create several innovation hubs throughout the city to spur job growth, private investment and new mixed-use development.

In 2019, the city adopted a measure allowing for greater density and mixed-use developments in the Maker District, drawing upon a concept a year earlier that established nine innovation hubs — or employment corridors — throughout the city, said Donna Kennedy, economic development director for the city of Tempe.

“We thought if we could allow for other uses, it might be kind of a cool urban hub that is more of a destination area with residential units for some of the workforce to live, work and play there,” she said, referring to the Maker District."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/05/19/tempe-maker-district-transformation-new-business.html

 

[Major4Boarding]

So how does this Mesa option track? Does the acreage work? I'm also wondering about the basics like distance, traffic, etc

I mean I can read a map, as can anyone else. However I'd like the locals input regarding any logistical benefits, hangups, fan-base still to draw from, too far etc etc.

I mean, anyone can look at a map of where I live (Pinellas County) and see its only 15 miles wide at its centerpoint and 30 miles North/South

What they don't realize is it takes a f***ing hour to get anywhere around here. That's why I want local feedback

So does going further east alienate what could've been fans from Glendale who would've made it to Tempe?

Are the restaurants and businesses around Fiest Mall still operational?

Parking - Is there enough parking on the site with arena on it?

Would it be easy to get to and get out of?

Public Transpo?

The basics

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

My prediction is Houston but I think Milwaukee would be fun. They have so many teams to immediately have beef with like Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, St Louis based on the NFL and MLB divisions.

 

[KevFu]

Fiesta Mall is actually further away from Downtown Phoenix than Gila River Arena is. If this site actually is an option, yet again, half the Valley will be bitching about the commute to games.

This is incorrect because you're assuming that Phoenix is the center of the metro area. It's not. Tempe is the center.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

All this talk of SLC, Portland, KC, Milwaukee, Sacramento is just going totally ass backwards from Phoenix metro. Small secondary markets. I fail to see how these are attractive even vis a vis Quebec especially in terms of generating money for the league.

Feels like a weird alternate universe timeline in NHL expansion/relocation history that these are even being considered in 2023, a year ago every single person on BoH would have laughed these options out of the room. They'd be better off finding something - anything at all - that will work in the Phoenix area.

Houston or Atlanta - yes even a third try - is where they really should prioritize going to, and failing that Quebec (or maybe even San Diego?) should be the natural backup options. May as well put a team in Omaha otherwise.

A solid owner + quality building you control are the number one and number two factors when it comes to teams.

Houston and Atlanta don't have those, unless Fertitta changes his mind, or that new arena is built in Atlanta.

 

[TheLegend]

Phillipe Boucher, ex-NHL player and now hockey game analyst on TVA Sport, says he talked to an ex-NHL owner who thinks there are several local groups who could afford an NHL team in Québec City. And that the corporate suites would have no problem getting sold.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2023/05/17/lnh-a-quebec--il-y-a-plus-quun-groupe-pret-a-faire-le-cheque

That’s like saying “I know a guy, who knows a guy who has a friend’s uncle who knows a few guys who might be able to do a deal…”

 

[MMC]

 

[TheLegend]

Oh man…. The social media team is deeply off the reservation (no pun here)

Oh they’re just deciding to get into everyone’s head.

 

[BattleBorn]

That's pretty cringe.

 

[Shwan]

 

[Major4Boarding]

I mean, what is it with this shit? I can come up with 4 different ways to get in front of this week's happenings than this gimmick. Maybe its just because I'm old, tired, and need a nap

 

[Melrose Munch]

We've reached the bottom...

 

[MMC]

They're 1/5th of the way there after 20 minutes

and now over 6K just a few minutes later lol

 

[Slashers98]

They are getting destroyed on social media...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I mean, what is it with this shit? I can come up with 4 different ways to get in front of this week's happenings than this gimmick. Maybe its just because I'm old, tired, and need a nap

Everyone in the world seems to constantly forget that Twitter is not real life, lol.

This is just a useless bit of posting to try and keep spirits up, mixed with some gallows humour. Nothing more, nothing less.

To overreact to it is a giant waste of time.

 

[Boris Zubov]

This is incorrect because you're assuming that Phoenix is the center of the metro area. It's not. Tempe is the center.

The point is the same & and the drive will be even further for fans in the West Valley to Mesa.

Regardless, I've never been a big proponent that arena location was the biggest issue that plagues this market. Uncertainty, a string of awful ownership & a terrible product on the ice has just about killed off whatever interest there was in the area. They have loyal fans, but way too few of them. Who could blame the locals for being completely disinterested at this point.

This reads like a desperate Reddit plea for attention.

 

[Mightygoose]

Really pathetic but at the same time it's tempting me to like first ever Coyotes tweet

 

[Shwan]

So does going further east alienate what could've been fans from Glendale who would've made it to Tempe?

Are the restaurants and businesses around Fiesta Mall still operational?

Parking - Is there enough parking on the site with arena on it?

Would it be easy to get to and get out of?

Public Transpo?

The basics

The truth (and elephant in the room) is that East Valley has the "core" (rich and white) audience the Coyotes and NHL needs. Just fire up Zillow and look at what's east of Tempe and west of Tempe you'll see.

This location doesn't help Scottsdale residents too much but the last few years has had truckloads of laptop-class families pile into East Mesa/Queen Creek to make up for it thanks to Mesa's Tech Corridor.

The area itself has started a little bit of a comeback after being down on it's luck for over a decade due to developers fighting with the city. With that being said you have this gentrification scenario occuring where there's new development mostly on the east of the Mall while other holdings with older tenants are holding out west of the Mall.

The lot is big enough that it shouldn't be a problem to figure out parking, worst case scenario is he could buy out the developers that own the Korea Town strip mall to the west of the mall and use that as parking I suppose. Aside from buses there's the light rail that's north of the mall that goes East/West into Tempe/Phoenix that they could add a leg on to and bring it to the site.

Traffic would probably be hell but it is what it is.

It's plausible that it could work but it just comes down to what it always comes down to, does Meruelo actually have the money to make it happen?

 

[MNNumbers]

What would actually be the process if Mesa were to happen? Please include timelines. Thanks.

 

[Shwan]

What would actually be the process if Mesa were to happen? Please include timelines. Thanks.

No idea on that one. The first step though as Verde Investments owns the land would probably be buying it off them or partnering with them.

Tempe-based Verde began purchasing portions of the mall in 2015. It acquired the parcels from some of the mall's former big-box users Sears and Dillard's and from other entities that owned the land. The director of Verde Investments is Carvana's largest investor Ernie Garcia II, according to the Arizona Corporation Commission.