CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[TheLegend]

This time they will engage the public at the start and do a proper process not a sham like this one was

Um.... they did engage with the public at the proper time.

And you can call the RFP process a "sham" all you want, But that's how things are done.

 

[TheLegend]

Is Mesa the next city on the Arizona Coyotes radar? Here's how Mesa leaders are reacting

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2023/05/19/heres-how-mesa-leaders-are-reacting-to-a-possible-coyotes-arena/70233675007/

Not much of an article. Mayor's all for trying to get something done, and a couple of the council member seem positive.

Notes Phoenix council members who were positive towards a return to Footprint yesterday have backed off a little bit after realizing what it might involve logistically, but are still open.

 

[JimAnchower]

One thing about wealthy people, is they tend to make financial decisions based on what is best for them. The "middle class billionaire..." comment aside, he is right about how many people can afford to pay the "going rate" for a team. None of the people who have the money to buy a team AND have enough money to fund the team in case of losses, are going to buy the team without a favorable arena lease or them owning an arena themselves. So, let's start there. How many people have the money to spend on the team at this going rate AND own an arena that doesn't have an NHL team? Secondly all these people that have the money, regardless of arena situation or not, are well aware of the Coyotes situation in Arizona. The league can try to force Mureulo to sell all they want. They can try all they want to mandate a very high price for the team. If nobody is will to pay that, then what? I guess the league can buy the team, but do they want to do that? League can try to force Mureulo to move the team, but there has to be an arena willing to take them. Will all the issues that have been reported about some of his questionable business practices (not paying vendors and then making offers to settle, etc), what arena is going to give him a lease? For example, KC. If I am the person in charge of brokering the deal on the arena's side, I am either making him buy the arena and a favorable price to me, or he is paying the rent and all the expenses up front as he can't be trusted to make his payments on time. So basically I am saying, "Yeah, we really don't want you here. BUT, if you are ready to be bent over a barrell we will take you." Just like when someone asks me if I am available to tutor and I say my rate is $200/hr. I give that amount because I have no real interest in tutoring, but everyone has their price.

I agree with this. I just think Smith in SLC has been more public with his desire to own a NHL team, and that would seem he would be potentially willing pay more for the Coyotes. It will be interesting to see if talks start accelerating between Smith and SLC about a new arena coming online sooner than the Olympics.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I agree with this. I just think Smith in SLC has been more public with his desire to own a NHL team, and that would seem he would be potentially willing pay more for the Coyotes. It will be interesting to see if talks start accelerating between Smith and SLC about a new arena coming online sooner than the Olympics.

Remind me, does he own the Jazz?

 

[TheLegend]

This is an excellent read.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/18/tempe-coyotes-recap-what-happened-and-what-is-next-for-the-city/70228017007/

When one of the leaders of the opposition breaks down in analytic fashion exactly how the other side lost.

 

[JimAnchower]

Remind me, does he own the Jazz?

Yes, so he would control both franchises. Also owns Real Salt Lake.

 

[powerstuck]

How much power does Bettman have in this situation? Is Meruelo running the Coyotes in such a way that runs afowl of the franchise ownership agreement? If not, there isn't much Bettman can do. If he tries to take away the keys, Meruelo is going to sue. That will be expensive for the league and take years to resolve. And's let's not even get into the other owners going through discovery and deposition. So what options does Bettman have?

He could apply some pressure on Meruelo to sell, like saying "You really need to resolve this.". He could remove Meruelo from any ownership committees. If the Coyotes revenue is far below the 31st team, maybe adjust the revenue sharing calculations to some minimum that is between the Coyotes and the 31st team.

But in the end, Bettman isn't running this, Meruelo is.

Meruelo is an owner, 1/32th of a pie that is called the NHL. While the league most likely doesn't have any wrongdoing circumstances to forcefully take a team away from him, they can and will control where he moves the team (if there is a move) or to whom he may sell (even a fraction of the team).

Now, does the NHL really REALLY wants to stay in AZ.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yes, so he would control both franchises. Also owns Real Salt Lake.

gotchya, thank you. I know little about the market, but if he has the money to buy and run the team and can get a new arena built, even if tied to the Olympics I would see that as a very viable destination. Yes, NBA is there, but the NFL and MLB are not and likely never will be.

 

[LightningStorm]

They're getting near the threshold where they could support both NHL and NBA, but I'm not sure they're quite there yet. But since we're seriously talking about SLC around here that might be out the window in the right circumstance. I remain skeptical in both cases though.

On paper Portland is better than SLC. Bigger market and and arena that’s hockey ready.

 

[Tawnos]

On paper Portland is better than SLC. Bigger market and and arena that’s hockey ready.

I don't think either place is a good one for the NHL.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Meruelo is an owner, 1/32th of a pie that is called the NHL. While the league most likely doesn't have any wrongdoing circumstances to forcefully take a team away from him, they can and will control where he moves the team (if there is a move) or to whom he may sell (even a fraction of the team).

Now, does the NHL really REALLY wants to stay in AZ.

Of course they do. Will they be able to stay anywhere else but the Mullett remains to be seen.

 

[StreetHawk]

On paper Portland is better than SLC. Bigger market and and arena that’s hockey ready.

Portland is not in a position to acquire another team while the Estate of Paul Allen is divesting of the sports assets per his will.

The timing just does not work. Not sure on the Blazers, but the Hawks have an agreement with the city that if they are sold prior to April 2025, the city would get 10% of the proceeds so based on the Denver and Wash sales, looking at close to $600 million there. So, the Hawks are just waiting for that time to pass.

No clue on the timeline for the Blazers, but so far have not heard anything is imminent.

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes in Scottsdale? Valley city dominating NHL team arena vote

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2023/05/19/arizona-coyotes-scottsdale-valley-city-winning-nhl-team-arena-vote/70235792007/

 

[TheLegend]

This is an excellent read.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/18/tempe-coyotes-recap-what-happened-and-what-is-next-for-the-city/70228017007/

When one of the leaders of the opposition breaks down in analytic fashion exactly how the other side lost.

Also in case anyone was curious......

Phoenix is not dropping it's lawsuit against Tempe. And because TED is now dead.... Tempe will have to cover the litigation costs.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Also in case anyone was curious......

Phoenix is not dropping it's lawsuit against Tempe. And because TED is now dead.... Tempe will have to cover the litigation costs.

Is the team still pursuing their own legal action?

 

[Major4Boarding]

This is an excellent read.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/18/tempe-coyotes-recap-what-happened-and-what-is-next-for-the-city/70228017007/

When one of the leaders of the opposition breaks down in analytic fashion exactly how the other side lost.

This reminded me to renew my subscription.

At the end of that controversial and potentially costly road was only a heightened level of divisiveness within the community, a landfill and a lawsuit. Damage control is now likely to be the name of the game for all of them, especially Mayor Corey Woods and the three City Council members who are up for reelection next March.

"It’s time to move forward. Above all, we as Tempe residents are neighbors and friends who can determine where we will go next," Tempe's City Council members wrote in a joint statement on Tuesday.

So no Tempe re-do.

Because the Coyotes did not agree to an interview after the election, only Tempe 1st gave input on why opposition leaders believe Tempe voters rejected the deal en masse.

Penich-Thacker believes the team's messaging did it in. She contends that they overpromised to the point of sounding too good to be true, which was made all the more unbelievable to residents by the Coyotes' track record of financial turmoil in Glendale.

She's not wrong. I'll add my thoughts in a different post

The franchise also made certain half-truths and misleading claims a centerpiece of its campaign:

• It claimed on its campaign signs that the project would create 6,900 jobs. The development was really going to bring about 3,200 jobs.
• It also insisted that the project site was "toxic," when the team's own soil reports provided no evidence.
• It touted the project's $700 million in benefits to Tempe. But that figure included $208 million worth of expenses that the city would have covered using future tax dollars generated on-site, as well as another $210 million in interest payments that it would have made toward the team's debt. The opposition also made plenty of claims that stretched the truth. That includes denying that the site is a landfill when at least 58% of it qualifies as such and implying that the project would have created two new taxes for a significant portion of Tempe's population.

If all that is actually true that's embarrassing. The article also addresses the ongoing Apartments lawsuit. Does this really continue on or does the appetite to pursue this suit truly diminish now?

 

[TheLegend]

Is the team still pursuing their own legal action?

Based on??

The voters said no. How can they blame Phoenix for that??

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It’s possible, but not realistic. There would be another referendum, likely in May 2024 adding an additional year of delay, with no guarantee of winning the second refendum.

If the team does have a viable Plan B they can break ground on by the end of 2023 the new arena opening date should be similar to the rejected TED proposal. Unlike the TED proposal, any Plan B site shouldn‘t require 6-9 months of land remediation before starting arena construction.

To be frank - this wasn't close enough of a vote to have a re-proposal have any chance of passing.

 

[Llama19]

Phoenix Business Journal article with a little more detail on 'piles of dirt' options...

With Tempe off the table, here's where Arizona Coyotes could build arena

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/05/18/az-coyotes-prime-spots-phoenix-metro-arena.html

 

[Boris Zubov]

Based on??

The voters said no. How can they blame Phoenix for that??

True enough, I guess their claim of breach of contract is null & void right about now.

 

[Final Baton]

Phillipe Boucher, ex-NHL player and now hockey game analyst on TVA Sport, says he talked to an ex-NHL owner who thinks there are several local groups who could afford an NHL team in Québec City. And that the corporate suites would have no problem getting sold.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2023/05/17/lnh-a-quebec--il-y-a-plus-quun-groupe-pret-a-faire-le-cheque

 

[Boris Zubov]

Phillipe Boucher, ex-NHL player and now hockey game analyst on TVA Sport, says he talked to an ex-NHL owner who thinks there are several local groups who could afford an NHL team in Québec City. And that the corporate suites would have no problem getting sold.

https://www.tvasports.ca/2023/05/17/lnh-a-quebec--il-y-a-plus-quun-groupe-pret-a-faire-le-cheque

That's great, but the NHL seems to have zero interest unless they are literally out of other options.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I want to focus on Fertitta for a moment. Tilman on why he jumped off the horse on buying the Commanders (bid $5.6B). Ya'll pay attention to the last 50 seconds (3:35 - 4:30 mark)



Tilman was on CNBC again the other day regarding "the state of the consumer in the restaurant sector, casino stocks and the sports industry". However, that video is locked for subscription-based reasons. But I'll focus on the Sports Industry part.

Regarding high-end franchise offerings (says he was "involved" in the Denver and Commanders process) - "there's not alot of buyers out there, when you start talking about these numbers... You look at all these people. It's the same people that are looking at all these teams and you just eliminated one in Denver, you eliminated one in Phoenix, and you eliminated one now in the NFL".

Ended that with "It'll be interesting to see all the prices stay up".

Believes that franchises have hit their peak in relation to valuations. However, he brought up that he bought the Rockets for $2.2B 6 years ago and said "one statistic I looked at is, no team has ever sold for less (than purchased) and I've essentially doubled my money in these 6 years in owning 100% of that team".

Lastly, "but, at the same time, we're in numbers now that where Middle Class Billionaires like myself can't own them anymore by themselves and alot of those people that are in front of me in that Forbes 100 don't have any desire to own a team or already own a team and they're out saving the World".

"So this is really going to be interesting to follow what happens with these sports teams in the next few years".

Interesting.

Overly inflated franchise values and a declining media market is going to bring a reckoning to sports leagues. We're already starting to see it, and honestly, any owner who's in it for profit and not for fun should be trying to get out now.

Everyone seems to think streaming is the answer, but it's not.

The NFL is landing huge streaming deals, but the NFL is a different animal, and even then those deals will likely age very poorly.

Streaming is quite simply an unprofitable business and we've already seen Netflix shake down their customers and search the couch cusions for loose change.

Disney isn't far behind.

Streaming is very quickly going to converge into a cable model. It's an inevitability at this point because direct to consumer just simply isn't profitable.

Until streaming reaches that point sports is in a lot of trouble.

 

[garbageteam]

All this talk of SLC, Portland, KC, Milwaukee, Sacramento is just going totally ass backwards from Phoenix metro. Small secondary markets. I fail to see how these are attractive even vis a vis Quebec especially in terms of generating money for the league.

Feels like a weird alternate universe timeline in NHL expansion/relocation history that these are even being considered in 2023, a year ago every single person on BoH would have laughed these options out of the room. They'd be better off finding something - anything at all - that will work in the Phoenix area.

Houston or Atlanta - yes even a third try - is where they really should prioritize going to, and failing that Quebec (or maybe even San Diego?) should be the natural backup options. May as well put a team in Omaha otherwise.

 

[Tawnos]

Overly inflated franchise values and a declining media market is going to bring a reckoning to sports leagues. We're already starting to see it, and honestly, any owner who's in it for profit and not for fun should be trying to get out now.

Everyone seems to think streaming is the answer, but it's not.

The NFL is landing huge streaming deals, but the NFL is a different animal, and even then those deals will likely age very poorly.

Streaming is quite simply an unprofitable business and we've already seen Netflix shake down their customers and search the couch cusions for loose change.

Disney isn't far behind.

Streaming is very quickly going to converge into a cable model. It's an inevitability at this point because direct to consumer just simply isn't profitable.

Until streaming reaches that point sports is in a lot of trouble.

I really don't think you can compare original content creation with sports broadcasts when you're talking about the streaming market. Netflix and Disney have been running bloated production schedules without guarantees on all, or even most, of their products drawing in new subscribers. Sports already has advertising built into the structure of the game and relatively speaking, broadcasts are fairly streamlined.... plus guaranteed audiences in a way that other television doesn't get. They're really different animals.