Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[Dr Pepper]

Agreed. Even if they have a plan B for a site in Pheonix, it would take up another year to get through the red tape. Then after that it would take another 2-3 years to build. You're looking at 4-5 years before they get a new building. I can't see the NHLPA or other owners being ok with them playing in a college rink that long

I'm still wrapping my brain around the PA and owners signing off on Mullett to begin with.

Team could've been moved temporarily to KC or Houston, and played in an respectable arena, with a set plan in place to build a new arena in Arizona.

How or why the league ever agreed for the Coyotes to play where they are, surely losing millions in gate revenue, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

Why prolong it, when there's still no sign of any arena deal in sight?

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Regarding Bill Daly's statement on the Coyotes in 23-24, I would encourage everyone to read it again. It is very carefully worded, and allows for tons of wiggle room. Keep in mind that up until 24 hours before the move was announced, the NHL was solemnly swearing that the Thrashers were staying in Atlanta. Daly's statement is designed to buy the league some time - I'll promise you that behind the scenes they are furiously mapping out some exit strategies for a move over the next few weeks...

Winnipeg was handing off a baton in a relay, this is a standing start by comparison. Are they mapping out relocation plans if need be? Yes, but for 2024-2025 at the earliest.

 

[hangman005]

Oakland would make sense. Oracle arena doesn't have a pro team.

I don't think Vegas can support two teams when they eventually move there too.

 

[hacksaw7]

The Coyotes situation has always been about Bettman's ego.

100%. To the detriment of the NHL. He'd rather a franchise be a non competitive laughingstock in the sports world for more than a decade, doing little more than taking up space, wasting careers, losing money, and accepting conditions (Mullett Arena with no new building on the horizon) that would never be acceptable at any other time for any other franchise. And in doing this he is depriving actual real hockey fans elsewhere in Canada or the U.S. of a team that they'd welcome and want.

If I was a Coyotes player I would demand a trade immediately. What the hell kind or conditions are these? No chance at competing...year after year after year of franchise uncertainty, shady ownership, a 5k seat hole in the wall building with facilities not even close to NHL standards.

 

[hangman005]

100%. To the detriment of the NHL. He'd rather a franchise be a non competitive laughingstock in the sports world for more than a decade, doing little more than taking up space, wasting careers, losing money, and accepting conditions (Mullett Arena with no new building on the horizon) that would never be acceptable at any other time for any other franchise

The NHL and Coyotes ownership through the years have really butchered the whole thing. I think the NHL could work in Phoenix, but the Jets never should have been relocated their, they really were not prepared for it. The now dead Tempe deal was probably the closest thing to get some traction, but there really has not been anything close to a coherent plan to actually get the NHL team to be a success. I still hope they manage to cobble something together that works, but I'm not optimistic, I think the runway has run out.

 

[hacksaw7]

The NHL and Coyotes ownership through the years have really butchered the whole thing. I think the NHL could work in Phoenix, but the Jets never should have been relocated their, they really were not prepared for it. The now dead Tempe deal was probably the closest thing to get some traction, but there really has not been anything close to a coherent plan to actually get the NHL team to be a success. I still hope they manage to cobble something together that works, but I'm not optimistic, I think the runway has run out.

I kind of think it has too...but it also had in the past. Who ever would've thought the NHL would allow a team of theirs to play in Mullett Arena conditions? That the league would be ok with this kind of embarrassment instead of moving the team.

Unless it is for a year or two with a new arena secured...but now it appears indefinitely?

 

[joestevens29]

Oakland would make sense. Oracle arena doesn't have a pro team.

Nothing seems to work there though. Not sure if the NHL would want to even go there.

 

[MM425]

This whole thing is really hard to fathom from a business perspective. Especially given the financial success of the new markets in Seattle and Las Vegas.

To play in a 5000 seat college arena indefinitely with a team that no players will want to play for while bleeding tens of millions a year is madness.

How on earth are the 31 other owners OK with this malpractice?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

...how can ANYONE see Atlanta, who has failed TWICE as a destination for an Expansion franchise, as a vialbe option??...I mean, besides Buttman, who would move them to Boise, Idaho before a Canadian Market...

Could not agree with this more. They've failed twice so what more proof do you need?

Stop trying to make Atlanta happen

 

[MM425]

This whole thing is really hard to fathom from a business perspective. Especially given the financial success of the new markets in Seattle and Las Vegas. The franchise would start making money in KC, Salt Lake City, Portland, or Houston next year.

To play in a 5000 seat college arena indefinitely with a team that no players will want to play for while bleeding tens of millions a year is madness.

How on earth are the 31 other owners OK with this malpractice?

 

[patnyrnyg]

This whole thing is really hard to fathom from a business perspective. Especially given the financial success of the new markets in Seattle and Las Vegas.

To play in a 5000 seat college arena indefinitely with a team that no players will want to play for while bleeding tens of millions a year is madness.

How on earth are the 31 other owners OK with this malpractice?

Remember, there are probably several owners who are ok with the low revenues of Arizona. If they were to sell out a 19,000 seat arena every night, how is that going to help owners whose teams are currently 26th-31st on the revenue list? It won't, will just raise the salary cap so now those owners are paying more for players on their current revenue stream.

 

[joestevens29]

The NHL and Coyotes ownership through the years have really butchered the whole thing. I think the NHL could work in Phoenix, but the Jets never should have been relocated their, they really were not prepared for it. The now dead Tempe deal was probably the closest thing to get some traction, but there really has not been anything close to a coherent plan to actually get the NHL team to be a success. I still hope they manage to cobble something together that works, but I'm not optimistic, I think the runway has run out.

I don't know they've had almost 30 years to figure it out.

If in 30 years you can't come up with some sort of viable option I think it's time to turn the page. Maybe they had a rough start, but it's not like there haven't been other clubs that haven't figured it out after go through adversity.

 

[Captain97]

The only 3 options for relocation that have had indicated interest in NHL recently + NHL ready arena would be

Houston
Salt Lake City
Quebec City

Houston is ideal and SLC in longterm is growing market

QC has failed twice already and according to logic from our neighbors to north that means you cant try a 3rd time or is that only Atlanta that logic is applied to?

Houston Aeros set to finally join NHL 44 years after rejection?

Terrible night for Yote fans but NHL/Yoters ownership have limited options at this point if any going forward now

Tbh, I'd rather try Atlanta again and my family is french canadian.

From a pure logical POV Quebec City would be less attractive to play in than Atlanta. Weather, Language, proximity to other Metro areas, and taxes.

At this point I just want the league to have 32 stable teams that are generating revenue.

That all being said I want Houston to be next.

 

[LOFIN]

Remember, there are probably several owners who are ok with the low revenues of Arizona. If they were to sell out a 19,000 seat arena every night, how is that going to help owners whose teams are currently 26th-31st on the revenue list? It won't, will just raise the salary cap so now those owners are paying more for players on their current revenue stream.

Yeah I listened to Canucks Talk and their guest (I can't bother to check who it was) brought this up as well as a possibility. Having a bottom dweller keeps the salary cap in check, and you have a dumping ground for your problem contracts (although this is more of a GM issue).

I would imagine having a wealthier league in whole would be more beneficial, but I'm not an owner so who knows lol.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I still haven't heard a good explanation for why the Coyotes were massively outspent by the opposition and that they only forked down 250K on their campaign. How could the league let that happen?

 

[joestevens29]

Remember, there are probably several owners who are ok with the low revenues of Arizona. If they were to sell out a 19,000 seat arena every night, how is that going to help owners whose teams are currently 26th-31st on the revenue list? It won't, will just raise the salary cap so now those owners are paying more for players on their current revenue stream.

Then those clubs would get revenue sharing

 

[patnyrnyg]

Oakland would make sense. Oracle arena doesn't have a pro team.

No chance will Oakland have another pro team in the not to distant future. Unless it is was an emergency situation. And by emergency, I mean there was an earthquake that destroyed the Sharks arena, but Oracle was deemed safe.

Yeah I listened to Canucks Talk and their guest (I can't bother to check who it was) brought this up as well as a possibility. Having a bottom dweller keeps the salary cap in check, and you have a dumping ground for your problem contracts (although this is more of a GM issue).

I would imagine having a wealthier league in whole would be more beneficial, but I'm not an owner so who knows lol.

Just like someone has to be the dumbest student at Harvard, someone needs to be the lowest ranked revenue team.

 

[joestevens29]

Yeah I listened to Canucks Talk and their guest (I can't bother to check who it was) brought this up as well as a possibility. Having a bottom dweller keeps the salary cap in check, and you have a dumping ground for your problem contracts (although this is more of a GM issue).

I would imagine having a wealthier league in whole would be more beneficial, but I'm not an owner so who knows lol.

The more money the league makes the higher the value of the franchises is.

 

[Hockeyholic]

No chance will Oakland have another pro team in the not to distant future. Unless it is was an emergency situation. And by emergency, I mean there was an earthquake that destroyed the Sharks arena, but Oracle was deemed safe.

Yeah good point.

Fair or not, they didn't support the Raiders and A's. Even through good times.

 

[Mike Jones]

From a pure logical POV Quebec City would be less attractive to play in than Atlanta. Weather, Language, proximity to other Metro areas, and taxes.

Yeah but Quebec City has fans (Who have sold out the arena for recent junior playoff games) who want hockey - can the same be said of a place like Atlanta? American cities may have numbers and size but does that translate into butts in the seats and profits for an NHL team?

The NHL's obsession with a southern desert and constant neglect and abuse of a potentially lucrative Canadian market says it all about their ability to run their business properly.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

This whole thing is really hard to fathom from a business perspective. Especially given the financial success of the new markets in Seattle and Las Vegas.

To play in a 5000 seat college arena indefinitely with a team that no players will want to play for while bleeding tens of millions a year is madness.

How on earth are the 31 other owners OK with this malpractice?

I don't follow the business of hockey, but I'm sure many here do and can answer.

Is it possible that the annual franchise losses (around $30 million if memory is correct) are more than offset by what the Arizona franchise brings to an NHL TV contract? This is my hunch and to be honest the only thing that makes sense.

 

[hangman005]

I don't know they've had almost 30 years to figure it out.

If in 30 years you can't come up with some sort of viable option I think it's time to turn the page. Maybe they had a rough start, but it's not like there haven't been other clubs that haven't figured it out after go through adversity.

Oh they absolutely should've figured it now, but I've got the impression that they've really been flying by the seat of the pants and doing what sounds good instead of sitting down and thinking what do they actually need to make it work not helped by everyone and the dog having owned the coyotes and some point over the past 30 years.

 

[PK Cronin]

Yeah but Quebec City has fans (Who have sold out the arena for recent junior playoff games) who want hockey - can the same be said of a place like Atlanta? American cities may have numbers and size but does that translate into butts in the seats and profits for an NHL team?

The NHL's obsession with a southern desert and constant neglect and abuse of a potentially lucrative Canadian market says it all about their ability to run their business properly.

It's the long game. Larger and wealthier cities provide the opportunity to grab more revenue if things work out. A place like Quebec City is guaranteed business but doesn't provide the same growth opportunities.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Hartford probably isn't an option I presume.

Doubt it.

The Civic Center (or whatever it is called now) is not up to NHL standards of today. So, they would need an agreement for a new arena in place and use the current as a temporary home. I have no idea if there is any interest in Connecticut to do such a thing. Secondly, it would be sharing the market with 2 established teams. Rangers towards the South and West, Boston towards the East and North. If they go as a temporary home, locals won't care about them. If they move into the civic center with the hopes of getting an arena deal done, not sure the fans would allow themselves to get invested in the team until the arena is done. And finally, while I do not live in nor have I spent much time in Connecticut, I have met many people from the state. One thing they all have in common is how much they HATE the city of Hartford. Same for people from other parts of New England.

Yeah but Quebec City has fans (Who have sold out the arena for recent junior playoff games) who want hockey - can the same be said of a place like Atlanta? American cities may have numbers and size but does that translate into butts in the seats and profits for an NHL team?

The NHL's obsession with a southern desert and constant neglect and abuse of a potentially lucrative Canadian market says it all about their ability to run their business properly.

How much did the tickets cost for that Remparts game? How many were actually sold and not comped?

 

[12ozPapa]

It was time to give up on AZ 10+ years ago. Glad this chapter is finally closing, hopefully.