Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[Fish on The Sand]

They already have, places like Ottawa and Edmonton have NHL franchises. Those are clear cut Minor League sized cities in the United States but they have teams because Canadians like hockey. Some people think they need to go smaller and smaller, and don't really understand the economics of pro sports, and in particular the push to go from a less gate driven league to a more TV driven league.

Ottawa and Edmonton both have over a million people and metro areas of 1.5 million.

That's definitely not minor league. That's the same ballpark as Pittsburgh for example.

 

[patnyrnyg]

To me, the reason they are committed to Arizona through next season is because of the mess they created with retaining salary/contracts.

Next season they (or insurance) will be paying 22.4 million for Weber, OEL, Voraceck, and Little. Also next season, Kassian, Nemeth, Brown, Valimaki, Hayton, and Boyd make over 1 million and come off the books.

That's the best time to sell and move the team because they payroll pretty much vanishes.

Glendale opened in 2003 and there was issues. Just 14 years later, Bettman was telling Arizona politicians, they can't stay there and eventually they got the boot. Obviously, it is not a good look and the league may fear this could hurt other franchises when it is their turn to negotiate for a new arena.

 

[njdevil26]

Glendale opened in 2003 and there was issues. Just 14 years later, Bettman was telling Arizona politicians, they can't stay there and eventually they got the boot. Obviously, it is not a good look and the league may fear this could hurt other franchises when it is their turn to negotiate for a new arena.

I agree completely... The NHL was definitely committed too long to keeping the team in Arizona but I think that's because they had owners willing to pay to keep the team there which is I think the reason why Atlanta moved.
Now they are just out of options... they are going to have to take the season to start taking bids from owners... and listening to Marek and Friedman it's a long process.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ottawa and Edmonton both have over a million people and metro areas of 1.5 million.

That's definitely not minor league. That's the same ballpark as Pittsburgh for example.

The Pittsburgh metro area has 2.3 - 2.4 million people.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Is there an NFL, NBA, or MLB equivalent to the Coyotes? A franchise that has always been a financial struggle?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Is there an NFL, NBA, or MLB equivalent to the Coyotes? A franchise that has always been a financial struggle?

Why do you think the A's went the "moneyball" route?

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Why do you think the A's went the "moneyball" route?

I don't watch any other sport besides NHL, so I have no clue.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't watch any other sport besides NHL, so I have no clue.

They were dirt broke as a franchise

 

[Royale With Cheese]

They were dirt broke as a franchise

Has MLB gone to unusual lengths to keep them where they are? That's what I'm trying to find out.

 

[joestevens29]

Has MLB gone to unusual lengths to keep them where they are? That's what I'm trying to find out.

I don't think there has been any league try keep a team like the way the Yotes have been kept in Arizona.

I've also never heard talk in any league the way there is about Arizona with potential relations to a TV deal. The other leagues don't have this issue

 

[Martin Skoula]

Why do you think the A's went the "moneyball" route?

The purpose of moneyball was to win though, Brad Pitt wasn’t trying to come up with new ways to spend less money by taking on LTIR deals and running rosters that are well under the cap floor.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The purpose of moneyball was to win though, Brad Pitt wasn’t trying to come up with new ways to spend less money by taking on LTIR deals and running rosters that are well under the cap floor.

The purpose of John Chayka was to win, he was just really bad at it. The Bill Armstrong era is just the tank and tear it all to the ashes so you can rebuild, which is only somewhat relevant to the team's financial situation. When it has a fun little name like the 'Shanaplan' or the 'Yzerplan' everyone gives it a standing ovation for "doing it the right way" rather than trying to rush things, when it's a team that doesn't have an arena to play in, it's an insult to Lord Stanley and the game of hockey itself.

 

[joestevens29]

The purpose of moneyball was to win though, Brad Pitt wasn’t trying to come up with new ways to spend less money by taking on LTIR deals and running rosters that are well under the cap floor.

The purpose was to be the best team they could with very little money. If they had an ownership willing to pay what the top teams were doing there would've been no moneyball.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The purpose of John Chayka was to win, he was just really bad at it. The Bill Armstrong era is just the tank and tear it all to the ashes so you can rebuild, which is only somewhat relevant to the team's financial situation. When it has a fun little name like the 'Shanaplan' or the 'Yzerplan' everyone gives it a standing ovation for "doing it the right way" rather than trying to rush things, when it's a team that doesn't have an arena to play in, it's an insult to Lord Stanley and the game of hockey itself.

That’s the thing though, they’re half assing the rebuild to save money. They could have gotten more for Chychrun if they were willing to take cash back or retain, they could be signing UFAs to short deals and selling them at 50%, but they aren’t. Their moves are first and foremost designed to spend as little real cash as possible, and if they happen to get some picks and prospects out of it that’s a nice little bonus.

The first move of the Shanaplan was retaining 25% on 7 years of Kessel’s deal, that would simply never happen in Arizona even if it’s objectively the best thing for the franchise’s competitive outlook going forward.

Get insurance loopholes to pay for our entire payroll first, and then if we have time we can look into these “playoffs” you’re talking about.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think there's something to be said about the NHL mandating all teams (including Canadian teams) paying players in USD then add in the higher taxes and the Canadian teams are definitely at a financial disadvantage.

something to be said for what? You think players should get paid 3 quarters on the dollar of the contracts they signed if they get traded to Ottawa?

That’s the thing though, they’re half assing the rebuild to save money. They could have gotten more for Chychrun if they were willing to take cash back or retain, they could be signing UFAs to short deals and selling them at 50%, but they aren’t. Their moves are first and foremost designed to spend as little real cash as possible, and if they happen to get some picks and prospects out of it that’s a nice little bonus.

The first move of the Shanaplan was retaining 25% on 7 years of Kessel’s deal, that would simply never happen in Arizona even if it’s objectively the best thing for the franchise’s competitive outlook going forward.

Get insurance loopholes to pay for our entire payroll first, and then if we have time we can look into these “playoffs” you’re talking about.

It's not half-assing, it's operating within the constraints of the franchise, same as Billy Beane looking for bargain bin players that were being undervalued, because they couldn't afford to pay for top talent.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

JFC...just fold the coyotes. Hold a draft for the players that remain on the roster. Then expand into another city so the league can get their big expansion fee to split between the other owners.

No more NHL in Arizona. It's been bad for well over a decade.

 

[Martin Skoula]

something to be said for what? You think players should get paid 3 quarters on the dollar of the contracts they signed if they get traded to Ottawa?


It's not half-assing, it's operating within the constraints of the franchise, same as Billy Beane looking for bargain bin players that were being undervalued, because they couldn't afford to pay for top talent.

Surely you see the difference between looking for undervalued players that are meant to help you win and looking for high cap hit LTIR players that are meant to create the illusion that you’re above the salary floor without spending any actual money.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Surely you see the difference between looking for undervalued players that are meant to help you win and looking for high cap hit LTIR players that are meant to create the illusion that you’re above the salary floor without spending any actual money.

They're in a rebuild, which they would be regardless of the team's financial state due to the horrible management decisions of the current GM's predecessor.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I think there's something to be said about the NHL mandating all teams (including Canadian teams) paying players in USD then add in the higher taxes and the Canadian teams are definitely at a financial disadvantage.

That is something the Canadian owners and US owners with high local taxes should have pushed for when the owners were establishing their stance in CBA negotiations.

 

[Hurricane Hugo]

What a stupid situation

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Has MLB gone to unusual lengths to keep them where they are? That's what I'm trying to find out.

Probably the opposite if anything. The league has been relentlessly bullying the city to build a new stadium or else.

The purpose of moneyball was to win though, Brad Pitt wasn’t trying to come up with new ways to spend less money by taking on LTIR deals and running rosters that are well under the cap floor.

If there was a cap that's probably exactly what he would have been doing.

 

[njdevil26]

That is something the Canadian owners and US owners with high local taxes should have pushed for when the owners were establishing their stance in CBA negotiations.

For sure I just think it's a financial disadvantage when the team's income is in Canadian dollars with tickets, merchandise, and concessions... local sponsorships.. but their payroll is paid in a more valuable currency. I don't know how you fix that without saying "it is what it is" but it's a thing.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Screw you, Buttman.

 

[patnyrnyg]

For sure I just think it's a financial disadvantage when the team's income is in Canadian dollars with tickets, merchandise, and concessions... local sponsorships.. but their payroll is paid in a more valuable currency. I don't know how you fix that without saying "it is what it is" but it's a thing.

I remember that being an issue for Canadian teams with the 94-95 lockout.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

Bettman's ego is the only thing keeping this franchise alive, it's kind of pathetic to watch.