Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[WarriorofTime]

One more year means one more tank. With all their draft capital and prospects, whichever city ends up with the Coyotes is going to have a really good looking roster when they come over.

 

[Rob Brown]

It was time to give up on AZ 10+ years ago. Glad this chapter is finally closing, hopefully.

It's time to rip the bandaid off, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How much did the tickets cost for that Remparts game? How many were actually sold and not comped?

Like 30 CAD which is the equivalent of 20 US Dollars. And it’s a championship series, not a Tuesday night against Columbus

 

[Hockeyholic]

I don't think selling out an 18k arena at 20 bucks per ticket would get NHL's attention. That's pretty cheap for a championship series.

 

[BKarchitect]

For starters, Kansas City is in Missouri with part of the metro area being in Kansas. The arena in which any team would play in Kansas City would be in downtown and it is currently existing. There's some appetite for hockey there as there is an ECHL team. Additionally, the Blues have been playing a preseason game there for the past year or 2.

The issues with KC would be if any ownership group based there would be interest in operating a team and if the area as a whole has enough interest to support a NHL team.

Plus they are building a new rink at Bluhawk in the Kansas side. The exhibition NHL games in KC have always drawn well. I get that it’s not a hockey hot bed at the moment compared to a natural market like QC but the idea that Oklahoma would be more supportive is pretty speculative. The Blazers have a long history in OKC but they don’t even exist anymore and if we are pulling out blasts from the past - KC actually has an NHL history and a high level minors history with the Blades.

I’m not sure the very smallest markets like SLC and OKC which are already NBA markets during the exact same period of the sports calendar are going to be ideal from a facility sharing standpoint with an NHL team. Depending on the management of the arena and leases - that could be a huge stumbling block.

The thing that makes KC the “easy button” choice is a state of the art arena and no sports tenant attached. And the ownership thing is moot if the current Coyotes ownership is just looking to move - and not sell (which they would have to do to move into the Toyota Center in Houston). Working out details with AEG or whatever they are called now in terms of arena usage would be a hurdle but if civic leadership is serious in making a push - I think this is Kansas City’s best and probably only chance to land a team. I don’t think they will ever be a serious expansion candidate due to ownership and fees but a relocation - especially from an owner/franchise looking for certainty and not more speculation and voting stumbling blocks in regards to a home arena situation - there’s a strong pitch to make at the very least.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Like 30 CAD which is the equivalent of 20 US Dollars. And it’s a championship series, not a Tuesday night against Columbus

Soooooo, not even close to where NHL tickets would need to be priced.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah but Quebec City has fans (Who have sold out the arena for recent junior playoff games) who want hockey - can the same be said of a place like Atlanta? American cities may have numbers and size but does that translate into butts in the seats and profits for an NHL team?

The NHL's obsession with a southern desert and constant neglect and abuse of a potentially lucrative Canadian market says it all about their ability to run their business properly.

No locale is better represented on a per person basis in any major sporting league than Canada in the NHL. Less people than California with 7 NHL franchises. The market is tapped out. Quebec City should be nothing more than a last resort. It’s just another Winnipeg and worse in a lot of ways because you’ll likely see some players go to Switzerland before reporting there and their territory overlaps with Montreal unlike Winnipeg who is the only team around across multiple provinces.

 

[Rob Brown]

No locale is better represented on a per person basis in any major sporting league than Canada in the NHL. Less people than California with 7 NHL franchises. The market is tapped out. Quebec City should be nothing more than a last resort. It’s just another Winnipeg and worse in a lot of ways because you’ll likely see some players go to Switzerland before reporting there and their territory overlaps with Montreal unlike Winnipeg who is the only team around across multiple provinces.

Canada is 100% not tapped out.

 

[joestevens29]

Soooooo, not even close to where NHL tickets would need to be priced.

Ticket prices are one thing. Will they have the corporate support is the main question.

 

[AZ Caps Fan]

This just sucks. I still have hope that thet will stay but as an Arizona resident it makes me sad for the fans here.

 

[Mike Jones]

Doubt it.

The Civic Center (or whatever it is called now) is not up to NHL standards of today. So, they would need an agreement for a new arena in place and use the current as a temporary home. I have no idea if there is any interest in Connecticut to do such a thing. Secondly, it would be sharing the market with 2 established teams. Rangers towards the South and West, Boston towards the East and North. If they go as a temporary home, locals won't care about them. If they move into the civic center with the hopes of getting an arena deal done, not sure the fans would allow themselves to get invested in the team until the arena is done. And finally, while I do not live in nor have I spent much time in Connecticut, I have met many people from the state. One thing they all have in common is how much they HATE the city of Hartford. Same for people from other parts of New England.


How much did the tickets cost for that Remparts game? How many were actually sold and not comped?

Are Atlanta fans willing to spend more money on hockey than QC fans? Didn't think so.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Canada is 100% not tapped out.

when we're hand-wringing about population centres with 700-800K people, yeah, it's pretty much tapped out

these places are like the equivalent of Little Rock, AR or Des Moines, IA. You don't see the NFL looking to put a team there.

 

[Mike Jones]

No locale is better represented on a per person basis in any major sporting league than Canada in the NHL. Less people than California with 7 NHL franchises. The market is tapped out. Quebec City should be nothing more than a last resort. It’s just another Winnipeg and worse in a lot of ways because you’ll likely see some players go to Switzerland before reporting there and their territory overlaps with Montreal unlike Winnipeg who is the only team around across multiple provinces.

Yeah - cause why would a league want a team that has passionate fans and is able to make money for an owner? Silly Canadians.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Are Atlanta fans willing to spend more money on hockey than QC fans? Didn't think so.

How should I know?

What I can tell you is the Atlanta fan spends US dollars, which are stronger than Canadian Dollars. Atlanta is a much bigger tv market. Atlanta has a lot more potential than Quebec City for local corporate support.

With all that, my first choice if they are going to move would be for them to move to Quebec City.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah - cause why would a league want a team that has passionate fans and is able to make money for an owner? Silly Canadians.

They already have, places like Ottawa and Edmonton have NHL franchises. Those are clear cut Minor League sized cities in the United States but they have teams because Canadians like hockey. Some people think they need to go smaller and smaller, and don't really understand the economics of pro sports, and in particular the push to go from a less gate driven league to a more TV driven league.

 

[Rob Brown]

How should I know?

What I can tell you is the Atlanta fan spends US dollars, which are stronger than Canadian Dollars. Atlanta is a much bigger tv market. Atlanta has a lot more potential than Quebec City for local corporate support.

With all that, my first choice if they are going to move would be for them to move to Quebec City.

Yeah USD > CAD, but that still doesn't mean that fans in Atlanta spend more than fans in Quebec lol.

Atlanta has had two shots. There are better options out there.

They already have, places like Ottawa and Edmonton have NHL franchises. Those are clear cut Minor League sized cities in the United States.

Edmonton was ranked the 7th most valuable franchise in the NHL.

Ottawa was ranked 24th, but rumours of a sale pushing $1B.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yeah USD > CAD, but that still doesn't mean that fans in Atlanta spend more than fans in Quebec lol.

Atlanta has had two shots. There are better options out there.


Edmonton was ranked the 7th most valuable franchise in the NHL.

Ottawa was ranked 24th, but rumours of a sale pushing $1B.

Please find a post from me that brought up Atlanta? Mike Jones threw it out there because for some reason selling out a Remparts game in a championship series at a price that would be less than the cheapest nhl ticket somehow means something.

 

[Rob Brown]

Please find a post from me that brought up Atlanta? Mike Jones threw it out there because for some reason selling out a Remparts game in a championship series at a price that would be less than the cheapest nhl ticket somehow means something.

Find a post where you mentioned Atlanta? Huh? The one I quoted, lol.

What I can tell you is the Atlanta fan spends US dollars, which are stronger than Canadian Dollars. Atlanta is a much bigger tv market. Atlanta has a lot more potential than Quebec City for local corporate support.

That's what I responded to.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Canada actually has more people than California now. We will hit 40 million in June.

Country has grown by over 10 million since the Nordiques left. QC metro has grown by about 200,000 in that same time.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Find a post where you mentioned Atlanta? Huh? The one I quoted, lol.

What I can tell you is the Atlanta fan spends US dollars, which are stronger than Canadian Dollars. Atlanta is a much bigger tv market. Atlanta has a lot more potential than Quebec City for local corporate support.

That's what I responded to.

correction: bring up a post where I mentioned Atlanta before Mike Jones brought it up. There is a lot more to the economics than simply the number of fans that attend Jr Games. As others have said, the league does not see potential to add as many new fans by putting a team in Quebec City as some other US markets.

Canada actually has more people than California now. We will hit 40 million in June.

Country has grown by over 10 million since the Nordiques left. QC metro has grown by about 200,000 in that same time.

Yes, but bring the Nordiques back and all those people will leave!

 

[Rob Brown]

correction: bring up a post where I mentioned Atlanta before Mike Jones brought it up. There is a lot more to the economics than simply the number of fans that attend Jr Games. As others have said, the league does not see potential to add as many new fans by putting a team in Quebec City as some other US markets.


Yes, but bring the Nordiques back and all those people will leave!

You said Atlanta fans spend in USD vs. CAD, so that's what I responded to. I never said you brought it up before someone else did.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Canada actually has more people than California now. We will hit 40 million in June.

Country has grown by over 10 million since the Nordiques left. QC metro has grown by about 200,000 in that same time.

And California's population is declining.

 

[njdevil26]

To me, the reason they are committed to Arizona through next season is because of the mess they created with retaining salary/contracts.

Next season they (or insurance) will be paying 22.4 million for Weber, OEL, Voraceck, and Little. Also next season, Kassian, Nemeth, Brown, Valimaki, Hayton, and Boyd make over 1 million and come off the books.

That's the best time to sell and move the team because they payroll pretty much vanishes.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

What I can tell you is the Atlanta fan spends US dollars, which are stronger than Canadian Dollars. Atlanta is a much bigger tv market. Atlanta has a lot more potential than Quebec City for local corporate support.

This doesn't really make any sense. Georgians earn and spend US dollars. Canadians earn and spend Canadian dollars.

Earning US $ and spending it in Canada, there's your advantage, but it's not relevant here. The relative strength between currencies does not matter when you are purchasing a local ticket with local earnings.

Your point about corporate support is spot on though.

 

[njdevil26]

Canada actually has more people than California now. We will hit 40 million in June.

Country has grown by over 10 million since the Nordiques left. QC metro has grown by about 200,000 in that same time.

Also important is the lack of any other professional sports in Quebec.
If you put teams in Atlanta and Houston they have multiple other sports to compete with the for the consumer's "sports dollar."

I think the effect of the smaller market in QC can be downplayed considering the closest competition is a 3 hour drive in Montreal.

This doesn't really make any sense. Georgians earn and spend US dollars. Canadians earn and spend Canadian dollars.

Earning US $ and spending it in Canada, there's your advantage, but it's not relevant here. The relative strength between currencies does not matter when you are purchasing a local ticket with local earnings.

Your point about corporate support is spot on though.

I think there's something to be said about the NHL mandating all teams (including Canadian teams) paying players in USD then add in the higher taxes and the Canadian teams are definitely at a financial disadvantage.