Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[93LEAFS]

He wants that TV market, and as long as some fool with deep pockets is willing to keep paying the price to maintain the franchise there, he's game. I really think it's that simple

I think he'd trade it for Houston or Atlanta if workable, as both are larger TV markets.

 

[Satans Hockey]

I still don't get this east/west conference thing.

The league should adopt divisions that are located the closest to each other:
- Vancouver, Seattle, Edmonton, Calgary
- San Jose, Vegas, Anaheim, Los Angeles
- Winnipeg, Minnesota, St.Louis, Chicago
- Denver, Dallas, (Houston), (Austin?/KC?)
- Nashville, Columbus, Detroit, (Milwaukee)
- Tampa Bay, Florida, (Atlanta), Raleigh
- Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington, Buffalo
- Boston, NYR, NYI, NJD
- Montreal, (Quebec), Toronto, Ottawa

Besides this never happening and some of these cities never getting a team you have several teams that are closer to each other yet in the wrong division. Philly is closer to the Devils, Rangers, Islanders than Boston. Buffalo is closer to Toronto than Washington or Philly.

 

[AndreRoy]

But as we have seen with the NHL going to many cities with a large population, it doesn't really equal to large revenues or interest or TV revenues. The NHL seem to go by some fictional concept that "there may be fans there". It's almost like they hired a science-fiction writer to run their business. And what saves them is essentialy the cap and revenue sharing. Why not use the UFC model: go to places where the interest is at its highest. That is why MMA has been the fast-growing sport. While the NHL has had financial issues with so many cities and attendance problems. They should realise they will never get a big TV deal no matter what, even if they multiply expansions in the most ridiculous areas.

So why would going to even smaller markets be successful in your mind? What small market American city do you think has greater hockey interest than Houston, which has already proven historically that it can support hockey teams?

 

[ZDH]

Just move to Quebec City ffs and rake it in hand over fist. You want money right Gary? Got the leafs out here with milk tits yet simultaneously gotta keep the Arizona money pit going?

 

[Satans Hockey]

Moving the goalposts yet again. But again, that’s fine. Let’s see…

Bruins/Celtics
Red Wings/Pistons
Panthers/Heat
Leafs/Raptors
(used to be Devils/Nets)
Rangers&Islanders/Knicks&Nets
Flyers/76ers
Blackhawks/Bulls
Avalanche/Nuggets
Stars/Mavericks
Wild/Timberwolves
Kings&Ducks/Lakers&Clippers
Sharks/Warriors&Kings

Having an NBA team certainly doesn’t seem to be a disqualifier - in fact even excluding Phoenix over half of American NHL cities also have an NBA team in the same metro area.

I agree with you that it really doesn't matter but the San Jose Sharks aren't competing with the Warriors and the Kings. San Francisco is an hour away and Sacramento is like 2 hours. That's also without traffic. It's not the same market.

 

[AndreRoy]

I agree with you that it really doesn't matter but the San Jose Sharks aren't competing with the Warriors and the Kings. San Francisco is an hour away and Sacramento is like 2 hours. That's also without traffic. It's not the same market.

Certainly depending on where you live only one of those teams might be convenient for you - the same could be said of the NYC/Long Island and Greater L.A. markets - but there’s still a decent-sized area where those fanbases overlap within a reasonable drive-time. You’re right about the Kings but there’s plenty of overlap between San Francisco and San Jose in my opinion.

 

[Scomerica]

I still don't get this east/west conference thing.

The league should adopt divisions that are located the closest to each other:
- Vancouver, Seattle, Edmonton, Calgary
- San Jose, Vegas, Anaheim, Los Angeles
- Winnipeg, Minnesota, St.Louis, Chicago
- Denver, Dallas, (Houston), (Austin?/KC?)
- Nashville, Columbus, Detroit, (Milwaukee)
- Tampa Bay, Florida, (Atlanta), Raleigh
- Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington, Buffalo
- Boston, NYR, NYI, NJD
- Montreal, (Quebec), Toronto, Ottawa

I kind of think MLS is heading this way. Especially once San Diego and Vegas get teams but likely bigger divisions than 4 teams

 

[BattleBorn]

Moving the goalposts yet again. But again, that’s fine. Let’s see…

Bruins/Celtics
Red Wings/Pistons
Panthers/Heat
Leafs/Raptors
(used to be Devils/Nets)
Rangers&Islanders/Knicks&Nets
Flyers/76ers
Blackhawks/Bulls
Avalanche/Nuggets
Stars/Mavericks
Wild/Timberwolves
Kings&Ducks/Lakers&Clippers
Sharks/Warriors&Kings

Having an NBA team certainly doesn’t seem to be a disqualifier - in fact even excluding Phoenix over half of American NHL cities also have an NBA team in the same metro area.

I don't think it's a disqualifier, but bringing a bad hockey team into an established NBA city seems like it wouldn't be the best option if there are other potential locations.

NBA could probably come into Nashville, Las Vegas, Columbus, and be okay.
I'm less confident that the NHL could enter Atlanta, Milwaukee, SLC, etc and be okay.

NHL is working from the weaker position, and IMO, the better move is to either have a 100% bought in owner or go somewhere that you wouldn't have to compete with a growing monster in the NBA, even with the weak spots the NBA shows, it's still a major player. NHL isn't exactly that.

 

[Shocker]

Arizona Cockroaches, somehow they just won't die

 

[CamPopplestone]

Bettman and Daly just won't let them move out of Arizona. They'll stay there doing band aid after band aid no matter how bush league and embarrassing the situation gets, even if there's another market willing to take them and stabilize the ship

 

[AndreRoy]

I don't think it's a disqualifier, but bringing a bad hockey team into an established NBA city seems like it wouldn't be the best option if there are other potential locations.

NBA could probably come into Nashville, Las Vegas, Columbus, and be okay.
I'm less confident that the NHL could enter Atlanta, Milwaukee, SLC, etc and be okay.

NHL is working from the weaker position, and IMO, the better move is to either have a 100% bought in owner or go somewhere that you wouldn't have to compete with a growing monster in the NBA, even with the weak spots the NBA shows, it's still a major player. NHL isn't exactly that.

Definitely agree about the ownership - that’s what’s going to make or break the team regardless of whether they stay in Phoenix or move to another city.

While the Bolts had won a championship a decade prior, what ultimately turned Tampa into a diehard hockey town was finally getting an owner who cared about providing a top notch product both on and off the ice. And the people responded by selling out that arena (the seventh-largest in the NHL) every single game, starting years before the team finally won back-to-back Stanley Cups.

It really doesn’t take much to keep a fanbase. As much as everyone wants their team to win championships, the majority of sports fans will loyally support their team through thick and thin, just as long as they see effort by the players and ownership and as long as they have at least some hope of improvement in the future. But let them see that the owner doesn’t care about building a competitive team and they’ll quickly decide that they don’t care about watching that team, and once the fanbase is lost in that fashion it’s extremely difficult to win them back.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Besides this never happening and some of these cities never getting a team you have several teams that are closer to each other yet in the wrong division. Philly is closer to the Devils, Rangers, Islanders than Boston. Buffalo is closer to Toronto than Washington or Philly.

I hear you but Boston need a division. At that point all the clubs in that region are very close.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...why are people actually putting Atlanta up as if it is a viable option??...a team in freakin' Saskatoon would make more sense & money, ffs...and Saskatoon is a terrible idea...jebus...

 

[Jetsfan79]

...why are people actually putting Atlanta up as if it is a viable option??...a team in freakin' Saskatoon would make more sense & money, ffs...and Saskatoon is a terrible idea...jebus...

Probably because some of the insiders are bringing up Atlanta. Which naturally gets more people to talk about it whether it's viable or not

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Probably because some of the insiders are bringing up Atlanta. Which naturally gets more people to talk about whether it's viable or not

...how can ANYONE see Atlanta, who has failed TWICE as a destination for an Expansion franchise, as a vialbe option??...I mean, besides Buttman, who would move them to Boise, Idaho before a Canadian Market...

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

...how can ANYONE see Atlanta, who has failed TWICE as a destination for an Expansion franchise, as a vialbe option??...I mean, besides Buttman, who would move them to Boise, Idaho before a Canadian Market...

Someone made a point about how Atlanta has changed since the Thrasher were in the league, but doesn't look good trying for a 3rd time

 

[Jetsfan79]

...how can ANYONE see Atlanta, who has failed TWICE as a destination for an Expansion franchise, as a vialbe option??...I mean, besides Buttman, who would move them to Boise, Idaho before a Canadian Market...

I'm not disagreeing. Perhaps TNT being based out of Atlanta has some people thinking NHL wouldn't mind trying again if the right ownership comes along. Im guessing TNT would welcome it. There's a line of thought out there that the market wasn't the issue but ownership and other factors were. I'm not convinced of this but I heard this argument before in regards Atlanta and the NHL.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...just have them travel around North America, flip a coin for home game, and have them as the Washington Generals of the NHL...wandering around aimlessly from city to city getting they shyte kicked out of them nightly...yay Buttman...

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

So why would going to even smaller markets be successful in your mind? What small market American city do you think has greater hockey interest than Houston, which has already proven historically that it can support hockey teams?

Oklahoma City has a very long and deep hockey history. Like Houston, it's amazing to see the list of future NHL stars that played there for a year or two, especially in the 60s and 70s.. They always had great fan support. Leafs even played an Exhibition game there in the 70s. Too bad the NHL didn't get in there before the NBA, but they have oil money in the state and the rivalries with Texas teams of any city would be legendary.

On the other hand Kansas and Kansas City seem (from my travels at least) to be the least hockey interested place in the US. I have no idea why. Very different from Texas, where a LOT of people are very open to hockey, almost like it's football's little cousin. I think that applies for Oklahoma too. But not Kansas.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Oklahoma City Blazers 1966-67

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Houston Apollos 1966-67

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Houston Coyotes
Houston Aeros
Houston Toros
Houston Lobos

 

[ichbinkanadier]

I'm not disagreeing. Perhaps TNT being based out of Atlanta has some people thinking NHL wouldn't mind trying again if the right ownership comes along. Im guessing TNT would welcome it. There's a line of thought out there that the market wasn't the issue but ownership and other factors were. I'm not convinced of this but I heard this argument before in regards Atlanta and the NHL.

My understanding is the ownership wanted the arena and the Hawks but not the Thrashers.

The Flames nobody wanted. The owner literally offered it to people like Ted Turner for free and got turned down. The principal reason why they moved though was he signed a deal that he'd keep the team in Atlanta until 1980, absorbing the losses, but then he could sell the team to whoever, even if they wanted to move the team.

 

[lionsDen]

Where ever they go, an NHL ready arena is a must, so what places have a 20k seat hockey arena all ready built?

I think Kansas City has one

 

[Sniper99]

Actually, it's pronounced mee-lee-wah-kay, which is Algonquin for "the good land".

Does this man know how to party or what? huh? huh?