Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[Harvey Birdman]

Have you seen the Oakland A's?

The fans are protesting horrible ownership. The owner refuses to spend any money to field a team worth watching. Has frustrated the local government to the point that local politicians will not even deal with the organization. Their facility has needed replaced for what almost 20 years? And the organization mainly the owner has burnt every bridge imaginable trying to put as little money as possible into a build. Arizona has most certainly had their issues. But it’s not an apples to apples comparison between the A’s and Yotes. The A’s just have one of the worst owners in major sports and he is moving the team so he can maximize its value and sell it.

 

[Kimota]

As a huge fan of the Expos, I cant help but feel for the fans of the Coyotes. You guys don't deserve this, especially with how long its been dragging on for.

I think it's different because the Expos used to be a great baseball market, people used to play baseball like crazy all over the province of Quebec. For decades fathers and sons played baseball. And the Expos had their glory days, a lot of great moments from the inception to the 80s. And then before the Lockout, they had the best team in baseball. So them leaving was a bigger heart breaker. I don't think there are that many hockey fans in Arizona.

 

[XX]

I don't think there are that many hockey fans in Arizona.

There absolutely are, they just cheer for teams like Chicago, Detroit, and the Canadian teams. The Coyotes never gave them a reason to switch.

 

[Oddbob]

What about the rivalry? The passion for the sport? You're going to forget about that for 1-2 hour delays?

That rivalry died about 13-15 years ago though, long before Detroit moved to the Eastern Conference.

 

[Turin]

Having the Coyotes end on a lame duck season in Mullet arena would be a shameful way to put down even a Coyote.

 

[um]

Quebec is selling out their building , all 18,295 seats , for junior hockey. This isn't even a contest. But whatever

The Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph

pshh, thats easy money, NHL wants potential money in big potential markets.

The good old mystery box.

 

[Oddbob]

Well it's still before the end of May now, team could be moved in the next couple of weeks, the NHL have already had meetings with other cities, as I said before they have their bases covered in the event something like this happens, if people are buying that the NHL doesn't know what to do now then they don't know what's up.

Clearly not, based on Daly saying he can't envision any scenario where the Coyotes aren't playing next season at Mullet Arena.

 

[bleedblue94]

So you agree they don't actually have a contingency.

No I don't, don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure they have contingencies. If you think a group of lawyers went into this vote w no backups then you don't know how lawyers think. If they are actually staying at mullet again next year then they are working on the Tempe 2 plan, hoping to work something out w a sale to the sun's owner, or further the projects developing in Atlanta or slc. Houston only happens if they find a way to transfer the team to the rockets owner that to the public won't make the franchise look like it's terribly under the expansion fees they have recently collected from Vegas and Seattle. If they don't cover their ass on that then they devalue their franchise assets which no one wants.

 

[These Are The Days]

This team's plot armor makes the likes of Goku and John Cena look like f***ing plugs. Holy shit lmao.

The Coyotes would absolutely destroy Roman Reigns and Beerus in a handicap match

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Good, now the League should force a sale, probably to Fertitta in Houston.

 

[Kimota]

There absolutely are, they just cheer for teams like Chicago, Detroit, and the Canadian teams. The Coyotes never gave them a reason to switch.

Well that's just means it's people that have resided to these places. Not enough to fill buildings. I'm talking about interest in the whole state of Arizona about hockey. I doubt that there are that many that likes hockey. Hell even in "regular" US hockey markets, hockey come in third or fourth places. I cannot imagine what it must be like in the desert.

 

[Sniper99]

Gary probably has some rich golf buddies in Tucson that can have the Yotes playing out of an old warehouse in front of 20 people a night and say that its been pretty successful

 

[Kimota]

The problem with places like Kansas City and Salt Lake City is their size. The NHL failed after decades of trying in what as of the 2020 census was the 10th largest metropolitan area in the US. Granted, a lot of that had to do with piss-poor ownership, and size obviously isn’t a perfect predictor of success - the franchise that has been the model for the league over the last decade is in only the 18th largest metropolitan area - but given that hockey is still a niche sport in most of the US relative to, well, just about everything else, I doubt the NHL likes its chances in locales that don’t even crack the top 30 in population.

Houston is the largest metropolitan area in the country without an NHL team. I already mentioned its strong economic and population trends; other points in its favor are that it’s a massive TV market, it has a history with the sport between the Aeros and proximity to the Stars, and it already has a rather nasty rivalry with Dallas that wouldn’t have to be forced in the way that the league often tries and fails to manufacture with other pairs of teams in close proximity.

For those interested, here is the full list from the 2020 census. There’s obviously been substantial migration since then (for reasons I won’t get into on a hockey forum), but while some areas may have moved up or down by a position or two it should still be reasonably accurate.

1.	New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA	19,261,570
2.	Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA	13,211,027
3.	Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI	9,478,801
4.	Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX	7,451,858
5.	Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX	6,979,613
6.	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV	6,250,309
7.	Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL	6,129,858
8.	Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD	6,092,403
9.	Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA	5,947,008
10.	Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, AZ	4,860,338
11.	Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH	4,854,808
12.	San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA	4,709,220
13.	Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA	4,600,396
14.	Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI	4,317,384
15.	Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA	3,928,498
16.	Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI	3,605,450
17.	San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA	3,323,970
18.	Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL	3,152,928
19.	Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO	2,928,437
20.	St. Louis, MO-IL	2,806,349
21.	Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD	2,800,427
22.	Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC	2,595,027
23.	Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL	2,560,260
24.	San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX	2,510,211
25.	Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA	2,472,774
26.	Sacramento-Roseville-Folsom, CA	2,338,866
27.	Pittsburgh, PA	2,324,447
28.	Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV	2,228,866
29.	Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN	2,214,265
30.	Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX	2,173,804

It is has been proven though that size of the population does not matter if there is no interest by said population. Interest always trumps size. Give me 2 million of crazy mad hockey fans in a population of 3 million over 1 million fans in a 10 million population. You site New Jersey being part of a well of a big population linked to the NYC area and so forth but for years NJ had terrible attendances. Even when they had competitive teams. I went there in the 90s and it was so easy to get tickets compared to the Rangers. And when we were there, the place was like a ghost town in the arena.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

No talk of Austin?

They're a once-hip city that's been bending over backwards to be a big wealthy "it" city for over a decade. Mountains of construction, large white collar $$ population that's getting bigger every day, etc etc.

They could temporarily play in the AHL arena while the city backhands a deal for a stadium on the taxpayer's dime, they'd probably pay the ownership to be there. It would be the type of move to get Austin to that next level.

I also think them going to Canada and bumping Detroit back to the central would be cool.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Houston Atlanta make more sense as expansion as those are big money markets. Relocating to Salt Lake City, the jazz owner wants an nhl team, makes the most economic sense probably. Keeps the balance then u bring in Western conference Houston and Eastern conference Atlanta expansion teams

 

[Kimota]

Forget about it , it will never happend . I dont think the NHL likes PKP and one thing is for sure, PKP is lacking long run vision about this project therefore dont want to pay what he should to get a franchise.

PKP is not the end-all, be-all. Yesterday the Mayor of Quebec pretty much said "anybody that can bring us a team, we'll work with them". Deals can be broken like the one tying Quebecor to the Arena. Already PKP said he might sell his sport channel.

 

[Andy6]

Houston Atlanta make more sense as expansion as those are big money markets. Relocating to Salt Lake City, the jazz owner wants an nhl team, makes the most economic sense probably. Keeps the balance then u bring in Western conference Houston and Eastern conference Atlanta expansion teams

Moving them to a big market like Houston would risk cannibalizing the billion-dollar expansion fee that the league probably believes it can secure in an eventual expansion. So in this case a smaller city might have a chance to jump the queue a little bit. I don't think they would give up the east-west balance that they've finally achieved, so Quebec is unlikely to be in the picture, unfortunately.

 

[Advanced stats]

Having the Coyotes end on a lame duck season in Mullet arena would be a shameful way to put down even a Coyote.

Should we wait till they have a good season in a 18,000 arena filled to capacity before we put them down?

 

[bossram]

No I don't, don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure they have contingencies. If you think a group of lawyers went into this vote w no backups then you don't know how lawyers think. If they are actually staying at mullet again next year then they are working on the Tempe 2 plan, hoping to work something out w a sale to the sun's owner, or further the projects developing in Atlanta or slc. Houston only happens if they find a way to transfer the team to the rockets owner that to the public won't make the franchise look like it's terribly under the expansion fees they have recently collected from Vegas and Seattle. If they don't cover their ass on that then they devalue their franchise assets which no one wants.

So basically they're going to explore any viable options.

That's not really a contingency.

 

[Turin]

Should we wait till they have a good season in a 18,000 arena filled to capacity before we put them down?

They should have had a plan to move them now.

 

[Puck Tiss]

No talk of Austin?

They're a once-hip city that's been bending over backwards to be a big wealthy "it" city for over a decade. Mountains of construction, large white collar $$ population that's getting bigger every day, etc etc.

They could temporarily play in the AHL arena while the city backhands a deal for a stadium on the taxpayer's dime, they'd probably pay the ownership to be there. It would be the type of move to get Austin to that next level.

I also think them going to Canada and bumping Detroit back to the central would be cool.

I don’t see Detroit being in the western conference again. Frankly they never should have been. They are in the eastern time zone.

 

[BB79]

If they move to Quebec, I would like if they kept a few things like replace the Coyote by a Wolf.

The Nordiques logo always looked like half an elephant playing hockey with it's tusk to me

 

[MessierII]

Yet there is already an NBA team.

2 times fewer inhabitants than in Phoenix but a higher fanbase potential with much less competition (no NFL and MLB teams).

There's no point in going to a big market with a lot of competition and a local population that has no hockey culture. Atlanta and Phoenix have already shown the limits of this vision.

Yeah I could see that being an argument against Huston but at the same time I feel like Texans are good sports fans in general and if the team is successful people will show.

 

[BlueSeal]

Mullett is only capable of 5,000 seats at top end max. How is this a viable option? You won’t move the team to a small market like Quebec City where the team would be solvent, a situation the similar small market Jets have made successful, but you will let the Yotes exist like this in a situation far worse than any the NHL would ever approve of.

All the Yotes have done is -costed- money and burned through the goodwill and finances of areas of Arizona and the NHL in general, who have been quietly throwing money in this sorry pit.

What’s -really- going on here Bettman?

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Frankly no teams from the east should be moved to the western conference. if anything there are team in the west that should probably move to the eastern conference eventually. Nashville and Chicago come to mind.