Proposal: Coyotes Need an Average Goalie

[bernmeister]

I think Schmaltz is about zero value. He’s very talented and has shown ability in the past. It’s not working out in AZ at all. And he’s got a big contract. But he’s pretty young and really could rebound elsewhere. Heck, look at OEL. He’s been great in Vancouver.

What did you have in mind for Georgiev and Kravtsov? Kessel(50% retained to 3.4aav)?

big contract is a no go.
we are immediately no prob, but need cap recovery for big extensions on Fox, LaF and Kakko. Taking on salary is a no.
Kessel is not a fit.
Actually want to go the other way, unload Strome.

As to Krav, sure I'll work with you on a volume discount package deal, but this is a 9OA w/obvious talent. W who shows pivot skills/ability. We can do something.

I don’t think we can retain on Schmaltz. OEL retention is long-term. Can’t have 2/3 spots spoken for already for the next half decade.

I would do Schmaltz and Korenar for Rooney and Georgiev, though. If the Rangers were into it.

Pass on Schmaltz
Geo for sure, Rooney we like but can be had.

Rooney isn’t going anywhere but if Schmaltz has near zero value, I’d trade Georgie for him straight up

While Rooney is a useful cog we have guys we want to make room for, so if there is draft asset coming back, ok.
Also, want futures for Geo.

I’d do Georgiev for Kessel retained absolutely

No on Kessel

Yotes should have been trying to acquire Georgiev since summer. He’s a perfect option for them to weather to storm, and young enough for the Yotes to evaluate if he’s part of their future after a heavier work load.
I honestly thought he would have been part of a Dvorak package.
I’m not sure what I’d want from ARI in return. I like Crouse, but they prob rather keep him. Plus I don’t think he’d beat out Hunt for the last 4th line wing gig anyway.
I don’t know. Maybe a draft pick??
Rangers really don’t have any holes in their line up currently.
Maybe ARI sends over 1 of their many 2nd rounders (lower/lowest) for Georgie+ a small add???
I would say the Yotes might have interest in Gauthier, giving him a true top 9 look all year??

Agree w/all of this except Gauthier.
I have been saying for some time do LaF-Chytil-Gauthier and we are seeking that the LaF-Chytil part has worked well already. No on peddling Gauth.

 

[jay from jersey]

big contract is a no go.
we are immediately no prob, but need cap recovery for big extensions on Fox, LaF and Kakko. Taking on salary is a no.
Kessel is not a fit.
Actually want to go the other way, unload Strome.

As to Krav, sure I'll work with you on a volume discount package deal, but this is a 9OA w/obvious talent. W who shows pivot skills/ability. We can do something.


Pass on Schmaltz
Geo for sure, Rooney we like but can be had.



While Rooney is a useful cog we have guys we want to make room for, so if there is draft asset coming back, ok.
Also, want futures for Geo.


No on Kessel


Agree w/all of this except Gauthier.
I have been saying for some time do LaF-Chytil-Gauthier and we are seeking that the LaF-Chytil part has worked well already. No on peddling Gauth.

Once Kakko, and Strome come back, Gauthier is going to go back to getting 1 game here, 2 games there etc and never build up any rhythm. He will largely be a non-factor when deployed like that.
He needs more top 9 minutes with offensive players, and that’s just not going to happen here for him.
It’s the same thing that’s going to happen to some of our young D as early as next season.
Despite you saying we can’t trade any “blue chip” assets, we aren’t going to be able to play them all adequately either.
Schneider going to take 3rd pair duty to break in his rookie year, like nils this season... normally playoff teams don’t like running an all rookie 3rd pair, but Gallant seems to have the balls if the pair is good and talented enough.
You’ll likely see starting next year
lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Nemeth
If the kids really impress. Nils is likely gone at that point. That’s also keeping Robertson in the A for another half to full year which he might not even need. At that point, Jones/Robertson will likely be dealt as well.

 

[bernmeister]

Yotes have cap space + picks NY wants
Rangers have surplus of players AZ can use.

Kravtsov + Strome half retained 4.5->2.25 + Rooney + McKegg + Geo + Kinkaid + Hajek
for
the 2 worse of AZ owned 2022 1sts [AV + MON (or alternate under existing deal)]
+ the 3 worse of AZ owned 2022 2nds [Isles, Flyers, Canucks]
+ cap dump Stralman at half + Hutton

Valuation:
Krav is 9OA. If we don't get enuf now, we are trading Strome at some pt b'c we can't afford him going forward and we won't let him walk for nothing. When that happens if not sooner, there will be a roster spot and like it or not, Krav will go there to showcase while improving his skills at which pt he is THEN traded. If AZ wants to defeat that open market bidding process, a serious offer has to be made. Strome at half is fine and he can be flipped if nec at 2.25 or even 1.125 [optional final retention] for a 1st easily to recover a later 1st paid here. McKegg + particularly Rooney are helpful bottom 6. Hajek a freebie throw in can't hurt and will help. Two NHL level netminders for OP's valid concerns.

Rangers buy out or LTIR Hutton if he qualifies. Call up Huska.
Expiring Stralman useful in practice, does not dress, is retained further and dealt cheap to a club w/injury needing a body, assuming he waives his nmc and wants to go so he can play. Not re-signed.

AZ keeps its choicest picks, gets help now, will still be a lottery pick, but not the horror show it is now.

Rangers trim to create cap for Fox, LaF, KK deals, roll out:
Goodrow - Zib - Panarin
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
Kreider - Barron - Kakko
Reaves - Blais - Hunt

Cuylie + Pajuniemi wait in the wings.
If there is an injury, Lindgren can be moved to bottom 6 LW prob facilitating lineup can be juggled, facilitating Rangers to call up Jones

ordinary D
Lindgren - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Nemeth = Nils


deal?

 

[rt]

Yotes have cap space + picks NY wants
Rangers have surplus of players AZ can use.

Kravtsov + Strome half retained 4.5->2.25 + Rooney + McKegg + Geo + Kinkaid + Hajek
for
the 2 worse of AZ owned 2022 1sts [AV + MON (or alternate under existing deal)]
+ the 3 worse of AZ owned 2022 2nds [Isles, Flyers, Canucks]
+ cap dump Stralman at half + Hutton

Valuation:
Krav is 9OA. If we don't get enuf now, we are trading Strome at some pt b'c we can't afford him going forward and we won't let him walk for nothing. When that happens if not sooner, there will be a roster spot and like it or not, Krav will go there to showcase while improving his skills at which pt he is THEN traded. If AZ wants to defeat that open market bidding process, a serious offer has to be made. Strome at half is fine and he can be flipped if nec at 2.25 or even 1.125 [optional final retention] for a 1st easily to recover a later 1st paid here. McKegg + particularly Rooney are helpful bottom 6. Hajek a freebie throw in can't hurt and will help. Two NHL level netminders for OP's valid concerns.

Rangers buy out or LTIR Hutton if he qualifies. Call up Huska.
Expiring Stralman useful in practice, does not dress, is retained further and dealt cheap to a club w/injury needing a body, assuming he waives his nmc and wants to go so he can play. Not re-signed.

AZ keeps its choicest picks, gets help now, will still be a lottery pick, but not the horror show it is now.

Rangers trim to create cap for Fox, LaF, KK deals, roll out:
Goodrow - Zib - Panarin
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
Kreider - Barron - Kakko
Reaves - Blais - Hunt

Cuylie + Pajuniemi wait in the wings.
If there is an injury, Lindgren can be moved to bottom 6 LW prob facilitating lineup can be juggled, facilitating Rangers to call up Jones

ordinary D
Lindgren - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Nemeth = Nils


deal?

Lol. No.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

*Yotes need average goalie*

Georgiev for a 2nd? lol

 

[bernmeister]

Once Kakko, and Strome come back, Gauthier is going to go back to getting 1 game here, 2 games there etc and never build up any rhythm. He will largely be a non-factor when deployed like that.
He needs more top 9 minutes with offensive players, and that’s just not going to happen here for him.
It’s the same thing that’s going to happen to some of our young D as early as next season.
Despite you saying we can’t trade any “blue chip” assets, we aren’t going to be able to play them all adequately either.
Schneider going to take 3rd pair duty to break in his rookie year, like nils this season... normally playoff teams don’t like running an all rookie 3rd pair, but Gallant seems to have the balls if the pair is good and talented enough.
You’ll likely see starting next year
lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Nemeth
If the kids really impress. Nils is likely gone at that point. That’s also keeping Robertson in the A for another half to full year which he might not even need. At that point, Jones/Robertson will likely be dealt as well.

again and respectfully, we agree to disagree
at least to some extent

the first issue here is when is Strome moved?
We cannot afford him long term, it is not even a ? since we are not etting him Tavares style walk.
With RS gone, it facilitates develop then deal VK.
We can reassess then based on assets at that time.

I still say after this yr, we give Trouba inducement to go to FL, and that creates a D slot.
We then deal Fox lite Jones, keep shooter Nils and hold our beefier guys

 

[bernmeister]

Lol. No.

gotta run now but for my later benefit, pls articulate on valuation.
you are getting a 9OA talent now ++ [incl 2 Gs and 3 useful skaters] for 2 later 1sts and 3 later 2nds

not seeing how that is short end of the stick for you

 

[samabam]

gotta run now but for my later benefit, pls articulate on valuation.
you are getting a 9OA talent now ++ [incl 2 Gs and 3 useful skaters] for 2 later 1sts and 3 later 2nds

not seeing how that is short end of the stick for you

The Coyotes invested heavily into their scouting department this offseason and this gives off the strong vibe that they want to pick their own prospects, so it is sensible that they'd rather keep their accumulated picks

 

[jay from jersey]

again and respectfully, we agree to disagree
at least to some extent

the first issue here is when is Strome moved?
We cannot afford him long term, it is not even a ? since we are not etting him Tavares style walk.
With RS gone, it facilitates develop then deal VK.
We can reassess then based on assets at that time.

I still say after this yr, we give Trouba inducement to go to FL, and that creates a D slot.
We then deal Fox lite Jones, keep shooter Nils and hold our beefier guys

If trouba keeps playing the way he has this year, that aren’t asking him to waive at all, let alone early. He’s turning miller into a legit 2-way monster. Miller is even starting to throw his body around more and be more physical from playing with trouba.
They aren’t messing with that chemistry or Fox/lindgren for at least 3 years. Take it to the bank.
The only way nils is a long term ranger is if he displaces Miller or Jones/Nemeth on his off side.
Trouba 99% isn’t moving early, and Schneider is coming next season. Make no bones about it. He was good enough to play 3rd pair this year out of camp. He’s their long term trouba replacement. They aren’t stalling his development for nils

 

[duhmetreE]

Kravtsov, Georgiev @50% and Hajek
for
Hayton

 

[rt]

Kravtsov, Georgiev @50% and Hajek
for
Hayton

Now that’s a good offer.

 

[rt]

*Yotes need average goalie*

Georgiev for a 2nd? lol

I think that’s in the ballpark.

 

[seafoam]

Cory Schneider might hit waivers soon.

 

[Guttersniped]

gotta run now but for my later benefit, pls articulate on valuation.
you are getting a 9OA talent now ++ [incl 2 Gs and 3 useful skaters] for 2 later 1sts and 3 later 2nds

not seeing how that is short end of the stick for you

Wait, Arizona has three 1sts & five 2nds and you think they would trade two of those 1sts and three of the 2nds?

Five picks, somehow, just to get Kravstov & Georgiev? And you throw in other random crap like it matters?

Plus you threw in Strome because of your mania to trade him even though Arizona getting a UFA center makes zero sense? And you act like taking Stralman matters? Hutton makes 750k, his deal isn’t the problem, the Coyotes can send him in the minors if they had something better at goalie, so no, taking him doesn’t matter either.

“Give me 2 1sts & 3 2nds for a bunch a junk” is not a functional trade proposal to a team that sacrificed a lot in terms of taking on cap dump salary, a lot more then you’re proposing, to get all those picks. It’s an absurd illogical fantasy that wildly benefits your team a lot more.

Why would the Coyotes want to dump salary for picks now, after taking on an enormous amount of salary to get those very picks? Use logic.

And teams that don’t need or want Strome at all, not even a little, will not trade for him, that’s how trades work in the NHL. Again, use logic.

And Kravtsov might be a “9OA talent” but he’s on his last year of his ELC, like Lias Andersson was when got Vegas’ 2nd (#60) in a trade return. For someone big on ELCs you should understand why his contract situation lowers Kravtsov’s trade value.

Here’s a pick value chart from an Athletic article:

Here’s the depth charts of the Rangers, showing how that collection of random stuff is not worth those 5 picks. Strome is obviously the most valuable piece but also the most inexplicable part of this trade proposal, there’s no reason on earth for Arizona to trade futures to get a UFA Ryan Strome back. (Kravtsov obviously has upside but Andersson gives you a sense of the trade market for a distressed asset like that.)

 

[93Crazed101]

I'd like something based around Khudobin and Kessel. Don't know if a trade there is realistic, haven't thought much on it.

 

[Perennial]

A tanking team like Arizona doesn't need anything other than to lose hockey games...

They may as well pick some random fan out of the stands before each game and have them suit up to play goal

It would probably help increase attendance if ticket holders had a chance to actually get in the game

 

[Perennial]

Here's one that I think works well for both sides, although it does make Dorion look incompetent...

To Arizona: Brannstrom, Murray

To Ottawa: Kessel, Stralman


Arizona land a talented young LD who could use a change of scenery, plus a warm body in Murray to play goal and whose salary will help them reach the cap floor during their rebuilding years. The trade also saves Arizona approx. 5 million this season

Ottawa get a top 6 RW and a veteran RD both of whom are on expiring contracts


NOTE: I'm not sure what the market is for Kessel, but he doesn't have to be included if Arizona can get a better return by trading him elsewhere with 50% retention

 

[bernmeister]

The Coyotes invested heavily into their scouting department this offseason and this gives off the strong vibe that they want to pick their own prospects, so it is sensible that they'd rather keep their accumulated picks

this is fine.

Looking both sides, my offer presumes if they like what is on the table, getting that now, as opposed to waiting then drafting then waiting ocupla yrs to arrive, has some worth

If trouba keeps playing the way he has this year, that aren’t asking him to waive at all, let alone early. He’s turning miller into a legit 2-way monster. Miller is even starting to throw his body around more and be more physical from playing with trouba.
They aren’t messing with that chemistry or Fox/lindgren for at least 3 years. Take it to the bank.
The only way nils is a long term ranger is if he displaces Miller or Jones/Nemeth on his off side.
Trouba 99% isn’t moving early, and Schneider is coming next season. Make no bones about it. He was good enough to play 3rd pair this year out of camp. He’s their long term trouba replacement. They aren’t stalling his development for nils

Age waits for no man. NO man
Smart play is sell high to extent Trouba will play along, but in either event go with younger, cheaper guys if for no other reason, to better manage cap.

We have sufficiently tough D depth

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

The Coyotes invested heavily into their scouting department this offseason and this gives off the strong vibe that they want to pick their own prospects, so it is sensible that they'd rather keep their accumulated picks

yeah... what in that offer is worth a 1st round pick? maybe Kravstov works out.. maybe not?

then it's a bunch of picks for... stuff

 

[samabam]

this is fine.

Looking both sides, my offer presumes if they like what is on the table, getting that now, as opposed to waiting then drafting then waiting ocupla yrs to arrive, has some worth

I just think that it would go against what GM BA has done this year (taking on bad contracts for picks and getting rid of contracts like OEL, Dvorak and Garland (extension was lacking while he was still with the Coyotes) and they are in no position to change course now.
I can't argue value because I am not familiar with the offered players but I don't see the Coyotes parting ways with 5 (!) of their accumulated 8 picks in the first two rounds

 

[rt]

I'd like something based around Khudobin and Kessel. Don't know if a trade there is realistic, haven't thought much on it.

I think that would actually be pretty ideal for AZ.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You guys can have Koskinen if we can swing a deal for a legitimate starter at some point. Koskinen has had a hot start, and fits in with the "gotta prove his worth to get another chance in the NHL" factor that the Coyotes seem to have this year.

 

[rt]

You guys can have Koskinen if we can swing a deal for a legitimate starter at some point. Koskinen has had a hot start, and fits in with the "gotta prove his worth to get another chance in the NHL" factor that the Coyotes seem to have this year.

I feel like there was a point during the off-season where Edmonton would’ve attached an asset to Koskinen to dump him on AZ. And the Coyotes probably missed an opportunity, there.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I feel like there was a point during the off-season where Edmonton would’ve attached an asset to Koskinen to dump him on AZ. And the Coyotes probably missed an opportunity, there.

I actually don't think Edmonton ever had any interest in paying anyone to take Koskinen. I think if that had been an option, it would have happened. I think Edmonton fans and media have been far lower on Koskinen than needed, and Holland understood that. There were opportunities to bring in other goalies at a similar stature to Koskinen, and he opted to stay the course.

I wouldn't have been surprised if he was a part of the offer for Kuemper though, which would have made the Colorado offer far more enticing regardless of what prospects were offered.

 

[ManofSteel55]

A tanking team like Arizona doesn't need anything other than to lose hockey games...

They may as well pick some random fan out of the stands before each game and have them suit up to play goal

It would probably help increase attendance if ticket holders had a chance to actually get in the game

A team with issues filling their building should probably try to at least look like they are trying to win games. If nothing else, trading for an actual NHL caliber goalie might show some locals that they aren't just folding on the next few years.