Proposal: Coyotes Need an Average Goalie

[rt]

I actually don't think Edmonton ever had any interest in paying anyone to take Koskinen. I think if that had been an option, it would have happened. I think Edmonton fans and media have been far lower on Koskinen than needed, and Holland understood that. There were opportunities to bring in other goalies at a similar stature to Koskinen, and he opted to stay the course.

I wouldn't have been surprised if he was a part of the offer for Kuemper though, which would have made the Colorado offer far more enticing regardless of what prospects were offered.

I’m still surprised AZ got Timmins AND the 1st. I expected Timmins OR the 1st. Armstrong did well there. Especially with no dump coming back.

That’s an underrated part of the Dvorak trade for me, too. No dump. He got a 1st AND a 2nd (nobody talks about this) and didn’t have to take a dump back. I’m not crazy about the conditions on the 1st, but when you’re getting just picks, free and clear, with no contract clutter, I guess you have to make some concessions.

Armstrong has done a good job of refusing negative value assets simply to facilitate trades. He seems only to accept them when proper value is attached. He did really well in the Ladd, Gostisbehere, and Stralman trades that way. The OEL deal was a bit complicated. Those are all expiring dumps, and OEL himself was a boar anchor in AZ. He’s doing well, as expected, in Vancouver. That was NOT going to happen, here. I see that trade as Garland for Guenther, OEL for one-year dumps, and the 2nd for the retention.

So I guess it’s really no surprise that Koskinen is in Edmonton, rather than in AZ, if Holland wasn’t willing to attach an asset, or was demanding his inclusion in the Kuemper trade, simply for facilitation purposes.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I’m still surprised AZ got Timmins AND the 1st. I expected Timmins OR the 1st. Armstrong did well there. Especially with no dump coming back.

That’s an underrated part of the Dvorak trade for me, too. No dump. He got a 1st AND a 2nd (nobody talks about this) and didn’t have to take a dump back. I’m not crazy about the conditions on the 1st, but when you’re getting just picks, free and clear, with no contract clutter, I guess you have to make some concessions.

Armstrong has done a good job of refusing negative value assets simply to facilitate trades. He seems only to accept them when proper value is attached. He did really well in the Ladd, Gostisbehere, and Stralman trades that way. The OEL deal was a bit complicated. Those are all expiring dumps, and OEL himself was a boar anchor in AZ. He’s doing well, as expected, in Vancouver. That was NOT going to happen, here. I see that trade as Garland for Guenther, OEL for one-year dumps, and the 2nd for the retention.

So I guess it’s really no surprise that Koskinen is in Edmonton, rather than in AZ, if Holland wasn’t willing to attach an asset, or was demanding his inclusion in the Kuemper trade, simply for facilitation purposes.

Honestly, I'm sure Holland wouldn't have matched the Colorado offer regardless of the Koskinen situation. That's similar value to a 1st and Broberg from us, and that's a lot for one year of a goalie, even one as good as Kuemper. I think when Sakic decided that he could afford to part with both pieces, Holland was out. The Koskinen stuff just would have made it even more tricky.

 

[Perennial]

A team with issues filling their building should probably try to at least look like they are trying to win games. If nothing else, trading for an actual NHL caliber goalie might show some locals that they aren't just folding on the next few years.

I don't agree with that approach at all...

I'd steer into the rebuild... design a marketing campaign around the team being bad... have some fun with it

"Fans who can stomach sitting through a home game without throwing up get a free hotdog during the 2nd intermission"

Have a promotion leading up to home games to make an AHLer feel like an NHL star for a game. Fans vote for who gets called up, and then it's their responsibility to cheer wildly, or chant his name whenever he's on the ice. If the player scores, every fan in attendance gets a free hotdog...

Have a promotion that rewards the fans in attendance when the team loses so they're not as emotionally invested in a win... proudly boast about being at the bottom of the standings... let the fans in on the fact that you're tanking for Wright and Bedard...

Here's a fun promotion... beginning after the trade deadline, fans in attendance vote for the skater they want to see play goal in the final home game of the regular season. How great would it be seeing Phil Kessel strap on the pads for a game? Maybe call up your entire AHL team to play that final game as well... if the team keeps the opponent to under 10 goals, every one in attendance gets... you guessed it, a free hotdog!

It's okay to lose, just remember you're in the entertainment industry, so even if the team isn't successful on the ice, the fans are still enjoying themselves in the stands

Become the lovable losers for a while... it worked for a century with the Cubs in Chicago


"at least look like they're trying to win games"
All that does is raise the expectations of your fanbase, which leads to disappoint and frustration, and makes you look incompetent because you appeared to be trying to win games and failed miserably

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't agree with that approach at all...

I'd steer into the rebuild... design a marketing campaign around the team being bad... have some fun with it

"Fans who can stomach sitting through a home game without throwing up get a free hotdog during the 2nd intermission"

Have a promotion leading up to home games to make an AHLer feel like an NHL star for a game. Fans vote for who gets called up, and then it's their responsibility to cheer wildly, or chant his name whenever he's on the ice. If the player scores, every fan in attendance gets a free hotdog...

Have a promotion that rewards the fans in attendance when the team loses so they're not as emotionally invested in a win... proudly boast about being at the bottom of the standings... let the fans in on the fact that you're tanking for Wright and Bedard...

It's okay to lose, just remember you're in the entertainment industry, so even if the team isn't successful on the ice, the fans are still enjoying themselves in the stands

Become the lovable losers for a while... it worked for a century with the Cubs in Chicago


"at least look like they're trying to win games"
All that does is raise the expectations of your fanbase, which leads to disappoint and frustration, and makes you look incompetent because you appeared to be trying to win games and failed miserably

Well that's one way to let the entire world know that your organization is okay with being a laughing stock. With an already fragile fanbase, going out and actively promoting that you are okay with sucking and building an entire campaign around it is just bad business.

 

[Perennial]

Well that's one way to let the entire world know that your organization is okay with being a laughing stock. With an already fragile fanbase, going out and actively promoting that you are okay with sucking and building an entire campaign around it is just bad business.

You've admitted the team is struggling to attract fans, do you really think adding a serviceable NHL goalie is going to change that?

Quite frankly, I resent and reject your declaration that my 'lovable losers' campaign "is just bad business"

You have no idea how fans would respond...

The team's already a laughing stock... may as well steer into that as well

 

[ManofSteel55]

You've admitted the team is struggling to attract fans, so clearly the "let's appear like we're trying to win" approach isn't working... so why continue with the same strategy?

Quite frankly, I resent and reject your declaration that my 'lovable losers' campaign "is just bad business"

You have no idea how fans would respond...

The team's already a laughing stock... may as well steer into that as well

My declaration that this campaign is bad business isn't personal. It is my professional opinion.

I don't think they are promoting the team as if they are trying to win. I don't think what they are doing is working at all.

 

[Perennial]

My declaration that this campaign is bad business isn't personal. It is my professional opinion.

FYI, I edited my post as you were replying to it...

I can appreciate your professional opinion on the matter... just make sure to present it as such

"That is just bad business" is stating a fact

"I think it's just bad business" is sharing your opinion

 

[bernmeister]

Haven't dissected this to 3rd degree, but just spitballin

what about something along lines of

core pieces
to Oil: Gibson + Hajek

to Ducks: Geo + Krav +

to Rangers: Broberg +

that is appropriate to this AZ thread b'c as a result Kosk is available very cheap.
Also NY can send Oil Kinkaid as well, who can be added freebie to Kosk

 

[innitfam]

Seems like Khudobin would be your man. No trade protection like Bishop has. Holtby seems to be doing well so far so no reason to trade him.

Kessel @ 50% for Khudobin?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

FYI, I edited my post as you were replying to it...

I can appreciate your professional opinion on the matter... just make sure to present it as such

"That is just bad business" is stating a fact

"I think it's just bad business" is sharing your opinion

It is a fact that coming out and stating "Our business sucks and we're doing a terrible job" is a f***ing stupid idea. I mean, everyone should no longer be surprised by your complete lack of understanding of simple concepts... but my god, have fun convincing any advertisers, any players, and the league to have anything to do with you if you blatantly shit all over them. This isn't a Will Ferrell movie. Lovable losers aren't the puds who play up how bad and inadequate they are. It's the team that has players who actually give a shit who get a raw deal. It's the team that seems like its cursed because things just don't go right for them after they give an honest effort and do something that should have worked and just didn't.

It's terrible f***ing business to make a mockery of what the league your team is operating in is trying to do. That isn't an opinion, that's a fact.

 

[Perennial]

Haven't dissected this to 3rd degree, but just spitballin

what about something along lines of

core pieces
to Oil: Gibson + Hajek

to Ducks: Geo + Krav +

to Rangers: Broberg +

that is appropriate to this AZ thread b'c as a result Kosk is available very cheap.
Also NY can send Oil Kinkaid as well, who can be added freebie to Kosk

The Rangers seem to be set at LD in their top 4 with Lindgren and Miller, so I'm not sure Broberg would be viewed as an important asset worth targeting...

And with Keith only having 2 years left on his contract, I would think Edmonton views Broberg as his eventual replacement in their top 4

If I'm wrong and Edmonton views Broberg as expendable, at first glance it appears Anaheim could be a good fit with Lindholm in the final year of his contract


To Edmonton: Gibson

To Anaheim: Broberg, Koskinen


If Anaheim covets Kravtsov, it's likely they could acquire him without having to make him the centerpiece of a Gibson trade

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't agree with that approach at all...

I'd steer into the rebuild... design a marketing campaign around the team being bad... have some fun with it

"Fans who can stomach sitting through a home game without throwing up get a free hotdog during the 2nd intermission"

Have a promotion leading up to home games to make an AHLer feel like an NHL star for a game. Fans vote for who gets called up, and then it's their responsibility to cheer wildly, or chant his name whenever he's on the ice. If the player scores, every fan in attendance gets a free hotdog...

Have a promotion that rewards the fans in attendance when the team loses so they're not as emotionally invested in a win... proudly boast about being at the bottom of the standings... let the fans in on the fact that you're tanking for Wright and Bedard...

Here's a fun promotion... beginning after the trade deadline, fans in attendance vote for the skater they want to see play goal in the final home game of the regular season. How great would it be seeing Phil Kessel strap on the pads for a game? Maybe call up your entire AHL team to play that final game as well... if the team keeps the opponent to under 10 goals, every one in attendance gets... you guessed it, a free hotdog!

It's okay to lose, just remember you're in the entertainment industry, so even if the team isn't successful on the ice, the fans are still enjoying themselves in the stands

Become the lovable losers for a while... it worked for a century with the Cubs in Chicago


"at least look like they're trying to win games"
All that does is raise the expectations of your fanbase, which leads to disappoint and frustration, and makes you look incompetent because you appeared to be trying to win games and failed miserably

The Cubs tried winning baseball games. They had Hall of Famers come through there. They were lovable losers because they always gave an earnest shot at it. They had some good guys that you really wanted to root for. What you're talking about is the shitty version of Bill Veeck. He did all that crazy shit when he had a team that was literally a triple A team. It's why minor league teams do this shit. Teams in the National League don't do sophomoric bullshit like this.

 

[The don godfather]

No way they tanking and you cant better then Hutton for that. The dung show will continue.

 

[Lemontree]

Take Petr Mraek, don't want anything for him. Just take take him.....on second though, take Dubas with him.....package deal. I'm sure Kyle can help get over whatever bad feelings the fans have for Chayka.

 

[XX]

Hutton just went down with injury, so this is going to be a thing again

 

[rt]

Seems like Khudobin would be your man. No trade protection like Bishop has. Holtby seems to be doing well so far so no reason to trade him.

Kessel @ 50% for Khudobin?

I support this trade. Kessel has been really good this season though. And last. So it hurts a bit.

 

[Castle8130]

Hawks offer:

G Fleury
GM Stan Bowman
Coach Jeremy Colliton

no need to give anything back

 

[rt]

Hawks offer:

G Fleury
GM Stan Bowman
Coach Jeremy Colliton

no need to give anything back

Decline.

 

[innitfam]

I support this trade. Kessel has been really good this season though. And last. So it hurts a bit.

It seems like an overpay to be honest. Khudobin is clearly expendable. I really don't know why they don't have Oettinger with Holtby as a tandem.

 

[rt]

It seems like an overpay to be honest. Khudobin is clearly expendable. I really don't know why they don't have Oettinger with Holtby as a tandem.

Ditch the retention? Kessel really has only had one bad season in his life. He was excellent last season and has been fantastic to start this season

 

[banks]

Given the state of the Coyotes, the clear direction they're going in, AND the rumours that Kessel wanted a trade, HOW is Kessel not traded yet??

Other teams should be jumping on a point producer like him at a reasonable trade price. He would help out a lot of teams.

 

[Panthaz89]

What would be the point? So your bad enough to suck but also hurt your chances of actually winning the prize/ reason for tanking in Shane Wright?

When all their players want to leave in the off-season after losing most of their games by 3+goals because their management has no desire to win will hurt more than any draft pick will help.

 

[XX]

When all their players want to leave in the off-season after losing most of their games by 3+goals because their management has no desire to win will hurt more than any draft pick will help.

Everybody that matters is under team control. It's basically Chychrun and Keller at this point.

 

[Panthaz89]

Pretty hard to outtank the outtankers though. Buffalo traded goalies that year cause they were playing too well, there is just no way to out lose that.

At least the Sabres waited until February and Dub had a great record when the Coyotes traded him early in the season. Also Sabres goalies were not "playing too well" they went a whole month without winning a game with those goalies none of those goalies were even starters on any team and never really did anything after being traded away either.

 

[Panthaz89]

Everybody that matters is under team control. It's basically Chychrun and Keller at this point.

Team control doesn't mean anything when these players stop caring about hockey.