OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[Gary Nylund]

You doubt that companies structure severances? Even crown corporations do that. Heck many civil servants have that. Obviously not to the degree the big dogs have.

Of course severances are "structured", perhaps try reading my post again. What I doubt is that severances are structured in such a way that would motivate top people to leave if it seems like bad times are on the way. In fact I suspect that the opposite is true.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The conspiracy theory is they knew it was coming and got their buy outs / sold stocks before everything crashed.

*I am not endorsing this theory, just explaining the concept

Again, it makes no sense that things would be structured this way. Do you really think it makes sense to structure severance bonuses in such a way that top people are motivated to leave if they things bad times are ahead? I doubt any major corporation is dumb enough to do things that way myself.

 

[Nineteen67]

Well, it's not that hard to understand. If all the top dogs knew what was coming then CEOs usually have contracts that promise bonuses for hitting a certain percentage of growth and profit. If the market crashes they will not receive those bonuses. They are getting the biggest piece of the pie they can, because they might be dead before the market recovers if ever.

Are you talking before we knew about China or after they quarantined Wuhan?

 

[Fogelhund]

This is something that you all should be reading. Fair warning, it's depressing.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Imperial College are the global leaders in Viruses...

 

[ULF_55]

Of course severances are "structured", perhaps try reading my post again. What I doubt is that severances are structured in such a way that would motivate top people to leave if it seems like bad times are on the way. In fact I suspect that the opposite is true.

Quite a while ago, > 10 years IIRC, in France executives were sued for recovery of bonuses because they left the company in horrible condition and cashed out before the poop hit the fan.

I believe the executives lost the suit but not sure if it went to appeal and the verdict?

Not sure if this sort of thing ever caught on but companies tend to be enamoured with quick money in their pockets regardless of long term implications.

 

[Mess]

Its arrived in the NHL.

An Ottawa Senators player has tested positive for the coronavirus, the team announced Tuesday night. It is the first known coronavirus case in the NHL.

The Senators did not release the player's identity but said he had mild symptoms and is in isolation.

"The Ottawa Senators are in the process of notifying anyone who has had known close contact with the athlete and are working with our team doctors and public health officials," the team said in a statement. "As a result of this positive case, all members of the Ottawa Senators are requested to remain isolated, to monitor their health and seek advice from our team medical staff."

The NHL put a pause on its season last week. The league initially told players to remain in their home playing cities, but on Monday it sent a memo telling players they could travel anywhere, including overseas, to their home countries. The NHL stipulated that players should self-quarantine when they arrived.

Sens player tests positive; NHL's first known case

 

[deletethis]

Medical company threatens to sue volunteers that 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments

Judge: "You win the lawsuit. I'm awarding you every penny of profit these people made from this: $0."

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Are you talking before we knew about China or after they quarantined Wuhan?

All those CEO's left right before any of us had any information about what was going to happen.
2 months before this outbreak happened Bill Gates held "Event 21" which was a high-level pandemic exercise of what would happen if the Coronavirus went loose. So obviously the higher ups knew something was coming before any of us.

 

[Rogie]

Its arrived in the NHL.

An Ottawa Senators player has tested positive for the coronavirus, the team announced Tuesday night. It is the first known coronavirus case in the NHL.

The Senators did not release the player's identity but said he had mild symptoms and is in isolation.

"The Ottawa Senators are in the process of notifying anyone who has had known close contact with the athlete and are working with our team doctors and public health officials," the team said in a statement. "As a result of this positive case, all members of the Ottawa Senators are requested to remain isolated, to monitor their health and seek advice from our team medical staff."

The NHL put a pause on its season last week. The league initially told players to remain in their home playing cities, but on Monday it sent a memo telling players they could travel anywhere, including overseas, to their home countries. The NHL stipulated that players should self-quarantine when they arrived.

Sens player tests positive; NHL's first known case

I thought from the start, just never said it, it would be near impossible, that at least one player didn't have the virus 2 weeks ago.

 

[yubbers]

Would this not be good news? Haven't heard much about it.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/11/china-shuts-all-16-temporary-coronavirus-hospitals-in-wuhan/

 

[Gary Nylund]

Quite a while ago, > 10 years IIRC, in France executives were sued for recovery of bonuses because they left the company in horrible condition and cashed out before the poop hit the fan.

I believe the executives lost the suit but not sure if it went to appeal and the verdict?

Not sure if this sort of thing ever caught on but companies tend to be enamoured with quick money in their pockets regardless of long term implications.

Interesting! The fact that this has been an issue before only strengthens my belief that companies do NOT want top people leaving when bad times are ahead, and if they hadn't thought of that before then this incident would have woken them up.

I suspect that if you get huge bonuses when times are good, you don't lose them then things turn around and go bad. You don't accrue more probably, but you don't lose what you've already earned. That would make zero sense as it only motivate top people to do a good job and then when things are going well, they just leave.

 

[DenisSamson3]

I posted this in the stocks thread, but will post it here as well,

Ceo's that have stepped down. Data taken 4 days ago,

1. Microsoft, Bill Gates, 3/13 after forever
2. UPS, David Abney, 3/12 (after 6Y)
3. Disney CEO, Bob Iger, 2/25 (after 15 Y)
4. MasterCard CEO, Ajay Banga, 2/25 (after 10 Y)
5. Salesforce CEO, Keith Block, 2/25 (after 18 M)
6. Uber Eats VP, Jason Droege, 2/25 (after 6 Y)
7. Outdoor Voices CEO, Tyler Haney, 2/25 (after 8 Y)
8. Cansortium Cannabis CEO, Jose Hidalgo, 2/25 (after 5 Y)
9. St. Luke's Hospital CEO, Christine Candio, 2/25 (after 5 Y) (one of St. Louis' biggest hospitals)
10. JCPenney CMO, Shawn Gensch, 2/25 (after 9 M)
11. Bowers & Wilkins CEO Gregory Lee, 2/24 (after 2 M)
12. Bowers & Wilkins CFO Gideon Yu, 2/24 (after 4 Y)
13. L Brands CEO, Les Wexner, 2/20 (after 57 Y)
14. Credit Suisse CEO, Tidjane Thiam, 2/13 (after 5 Y)
15. MGM CEO, Jim Murren, 2/12 (after 12 Y)
16. Aurora Cannabis CEO, Terry Booth, 2/6 (+other big cuts)
17. LinkedIn CEO, Jeff Weiner, 2/5 (after 11 Y)
18. HULU CEO, Randy Freer, 1/31 (after 2 Y)
19. IBM CEO , Ginni Rometty, 1/30 (after 8 Y)
20. Match.com CEO, Mandy Ginsberg, 1/29 (health)
21. International Airlines Group (IAG) CEO, Willie Walsh, 1/9 (after 9 Y)

Now its up to 27.

 

[thewave]

Judge: "You win the lawsuit. I'm awarding you every penny of profit these people made from this: $0."

I hope the investors pull out of said company in spite and the judge tells them to pound salt.

People honestly have no idea how great would could be potentially; if only just life saving medical devices / medicines were mandated to be sold at true cost or even 30-50% markup. Energy source profiteers are pretty bad as well.

 

[thewave]

I posted this in the stocks thread, but will post it here as well,

Ceo's that have stepped down. Data taken 4 days ago,

1. Microsoft, Bill Gates, 3/13 after forever
2. UPS, David Abney, 3/12 (after 6Y)
3. Disney CEO, Bob Iger, 2/25 (after 15 Y)
4. MasterCard CEO, Ajay Banga, 2/25 (after 10 Y)
5. Salesforce CEO, Keith Block, 2/25 (after 18 M)
6. Uber Eats VP, Jason Droege, 2/25 (after 6 Y)
7. Outdoor Voices CEO, Tyler Haney, 2/25 (after 8 Y)
8. Cansortium Cannabis CEO, Jose Hidalgo, 2/25 (after 5 Y)
9. St. Luke's Hospital CEO, Christine Candio, 2/25 (after 5 Y) (one of St. Louis' biggest hospitals)
10. JCPenney CMO, Shawn Gensch, 2/25 (after 9 M)
11. Bowers & Wilkins CEO Gregory Lee, 2/24 (after 2 M)
12. Bowers & Wilkins CFO Gideon Yu, 2/24 (after 4 Y)
13. L Brands CEO, Les Wexner, 2/20 (after 57 Y)
14. Credit Suisse CEO, Tidjane Thiam, 2/13 (after 5 Y)
15. MGM CEO, Jim Murren, 2/12 (after 12 Y)
16. Aurora Cannabis CEO, Terry Booth, 2/6 (+other big cuts)
17. LinkedIn CEO, Jeff Weiner, 2/5 (after 11 Y)
18. HULU CEO, Randy Freer, 1/31 (after 2 Y)
19. IBM CEO , Ginni Rometty, 1/30 (after 8 Y)
20. Match.com CEO, Mandy Ginsberg, 1/29 (health)
21. International Airlines Group (IAG) CEO, Willie Walsh, 1/9 (after 9 Y)

Now its up to 27.

Running to the bunkers, bugging out. I guess they don't know about Island Fever. I guess nobody told them that living in isolation causes breakdowns. Basically you have to be conditioned mentally as a child to survive that situation without losing it. These guys are socialites, and shoppers, good luck.

Stage 1: Slightly Peevish

Stage 2: Downright Restless

Stage 3: Full Blown Rage

Stage 4: Complete Claustrophobia

 

[Clark4Ever]

Thats good. I may need it.

Most people will if this turns into a prolonged crisis.

 

[DenisSamson3]

Running to the bunkers, bugging out. I guess they don't know about Island Fever. I guess nobody told them that living in isolation causes breakdowns. Basically you have to be conditioned mentally as a child to survive that situation without losing it. These guys are socialites, and shoppers, good luck.

Stage 1: Slightly Peevish

Stage 2: Downright Restless

Stage 3: Full Blown Rage

Stage 4: Complete Claustrophobia

I lived on a hobby farm in a village of 80 people for 2 months. I would definitely enjoy it more than a bunker. Couldnt see myself living in a bunker.


Some Corona news, a few food shelters have closed down in the UK. I could see that accelarating.

 

[Clark4Ever]

My contract expires next Friday. I have already signed the paperwork to start a new one the following Monday. My level of concern that contract will start on time is extremely high given that the employer is basically telling us to sit at home right now. Why pay me when they have the opportunity to hold back the start date of the next contract?

I am self employed as well, and my work can come to a halt any time now. Luckily, the government will be offering a provision of EI to independent contractors and self employed individuals shortly.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

For me it isn't so much about trying to buy at the bottom. While I obviously get the sense that makes, I'm all about fair value. I've done a ton of reno work with my own hands so I know what things cost and what work needs to be done as soon as I walk into a place. The price they were asking on this one would be at the extreme high end of the market IF everything were done and modernized. Reality is I would be gutting a bunch of it to bring it up to par (not just makeup but electrical, plumbing etc.). That said it is a double lot with gorgeous views of the bay and potential for two rental units downstairs. But I am not paying finished value for something that needs a lot of work.

Where my conundrum lies right now is not in grossly undercutting them, more in wondering if I should jump now (will someone else?) or if I should wait a bit to see what effects this has on the whole? I personally am in a good position. No debts and some cash in hand. I presume the banks will be fine this time around (where it was them going under before due to their own practices). Not really sure what all I should be considering in these times? Don't want to miss out on something I should have thought of.

Maybe 10 years ago my wife wanted to do a reno tear down and rental on a lower income triplex in Florida. Good solid 3 story with good foundation. We are not contractors like yourself so really did not understand as you say what da real costs were. This was right after da real estate meltdown in Florida when we picked up this place for under $50,000. We thought well in was on inland water way so we could fix and live in 1 unit when we go down there to visit and rent 2 units. Now da costs of renovating were much more than purchase price and we ended up getting delayed in permitting. Turns out da plumbing and electrical were not to code once we started peeling everything back. But we knew this was a $200,000 property once everything returned to normal. Bottom line cost us over $100,000 to repair and reno but rents on 2 units now cover all costs and we have a place to go for free when we visit. And now it is worth $250,000 so my point is even if things costs way more than planned and take three times longer if you buy right it takes away most sins even for the non constructor types.
Now Toronto it is hard to get a triplex under $1.4M (my wife looked into it a few weeks ago) so even though rents are higher 2 units do not even come close to covering half of all costs. So that is why I said Toronto market is way overheated. We could use a depression here to drop things down prices to realistic levels for people living in them. Too many of us here have gotten used to da wrong market so a correction was necessary.

 

[deletethis]

I posted this in the stocks thread, but will post it here as well,

Ceo's that have stepped down. Data taken 4 days ago,

1. Microsoft, Bill Gates, 3/13 after forever
2. UPS, David Abney, 3/12 (after 6Y)
3. Disney CEO, Bob Iger, 2/25 (after 15 Y)
4. MasterCard CEO, Ajay Banga, 2/25 (after 10 Y)
5. Salesforce CEO, Keith Block, 2/25 (after 18 M)
6. Uber Eats VP, Jason Droege, 2/25 (after 6 Y)
7. Outdoor Voices CEO, Tyler Haney, 2/25 (after 8 Y)
8. Cansortium Cannabis CEO, Jose Hidalgo, 2/25 (after 5 Y)
9. St. Luke's Hospital CEO, Christine Candio, 2/25 (after 5 Y) (one of St. Louis' biggest hospitals)
10. JCPenney CMO, Shawn Gensch, 2/25 (after 9 M)
11. Bowers & Wilkins CEO Gregory Lee, 2/24 (after 2 M)
12. Bowers & Wilkins CFO Gideon Yu, 2/24 (after 4 Y)
13. L Brands CEO, Les Wexner, 2/20 (after 57 Y)
14. Credit Suisse CEO, Tidjane Thiam, 2/13 (after 5 Y)
15. MGM CEO, Jim Murren, 2/12 (after 12 Y)
16. Aurora Cannabis CEO, Terry Booth, 2/6 (+other big cuts)
17. LinkedIn CEO, Jeff Weiner, 2/5 (after 11 Y)
18. HULU CEO, Randy Freer, 1/31 (after 2 Y)
19. IBM CEO , Ginni Rometty, 1/30 (after 8 Y)
20. Match.com CEO, Mandy Ginsberg, 1/29 (health)
21. International Airlines Group (IAG) CEO, Willie Walsh, 1/9 (after 9 Y)

Now its up to 27.

I'm one to entertain conspiracy more than your average person but how many corporations are there in total and how many CEO resignations are there usually at this time of year? I suspect there's nothing odd about this at all.

I've heard this all originates from some wrong-way-more-than-correct self-annointed anonymous Nostradamus named after a James Bond character.

 

[lottster14]

The idea of LCBO shortening store hours and curfew in general is probably unnecessary. You're forcing everyone to compact their shopping into a shorter period so naturally more people will be in the same place at once. More risk?

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[Blue Nate]

This is something that you all should be reading. Fair warning, it's depressing.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Imperial College are the global leaders in Viruses...

Very interesting thank you. The recent positivity surrounding China's recovery may be tragically premature if they lifted interventions too early. Since they suppressed instead of mitigated they risk reintroduction of the virus as there may not be enough herd immunity in the country yet.

 

[Nineteen67]

All those CEO's left right before any of us had any information about what was going to happen.
2 months before this outbreak happened Bill Gates held "Event 21" which was a high-level pandemic exercise of what would happen if the Coronavirus went loose. So obviously the higher ups knew something was coming before any of us.

If I understood correctly, Johns Hopkins and the Gates foundation held a summit and their recommendations are the basis of the current plan implemented by the US.

I don’t think intention was to tell CEOs, worldwide, that there was a pandemic on the horizon, and to cash out.

 

[thewave]

Very interesting thank you. The recent positivity surrounding China's recovery may be tragically premature if they lifted interventions too early. Since they suppressed instead of mitigated they risk reintroduction of the virus as there may not be enough herd immunity in the country yet.

We need a pill or a treatment that takes away it's bite. We need it ASAP and we need all drug patents to be ignored for emergency use, and start cranking it out in every certified factory out there. If we have an antibiotic type solution we can get back to normal fast.

Here are some drugs that may be repurposed to treat coronavirus
French pharmaceutical Sanofi offers anti-malaria treatment for COVID-19 after ‘promising’ trials

The study on 24 patients with coronavirus using Plaquenil, a hydroxychloroquine molecule, which has also been used for decades for the treatment of autoimmune diseases like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis.

 

[Fogelhund]

Very interesting thank you. The recent positivity surrounding China's recovery may be tragically premature if they lifted interventions too early. Since they suppressed instead of mitigated they risk reintroduction of the virus as there may not be enough herd immunity in the country yet.

Frankly, I think one of two things is going on with China. Either they are flat out lying about the situation, or as you say, as soon as they attempt to go back to normal, they will spike again.

The US and Canadian Governments hit the panic buttons today. Despite calm demeanors, make no mistake, that when a government pledges to throw a trillion dollars at something, such as the US, and states, we will worry about this later, there is a major problem. If we are VERY LUCKY, we end up with a severe recession... if we aren't we hit a depression, and Governments are doing everything that they can to stop that. If they fail, they've just made it uglier, but it's what they have to do.