Prospect Info: Cossa Crushing it in Grand Rapids

[Hen Kolland]

Cossa is a late birthday.

Hart played his 16,17,18 and 19 yo seasons in the CHL

Cossa played his 17, 18 and 19yo seasons in the CHL.

Yes it’s very rare for the top goalie prospects to still be playing in a junior league at 20.

If you focus on age while ignoring eligibility cut offs, sure. The greater point that you completely glossed over is that, in relative terms, Cossa turned pro a full year earlier than Hart and played less than half the games.

Hard to use that as ammunition against Cossa’s development timeline. But again, I’m not saying you have to be happy with his progress.

Honestly don’t know of any goalie prospect who turned pro after their D+1 year to the ECHL or AHL. I’ve just spent some time looking at a bunch of active North American goalies and most of them played through their D+2 season in college or juniors. He’s quite under experienced and testing waters that possibly no goalie has tested.

Hopefully it doesn’t cause significant issues and this will be rectified entering next year.

 

[Henkka]

He’s quite under experienced and testing waters that possibly no goalie has tested.

Hopefully it doesn’t cause significant issues and this will be rectified entering next year.

You mean North American goalies haven't tested these kind of waters in the past... Kind of regular thing at Europe, because there's no restrictions.

Always better thing to challenge the kid earlier, many great examples of it. In bigger picture that's better development path in genaral.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That’s not how things work

2003 borns were eligible for the 2021 Draft.

Cossa was born in 2002. He was one of the oldest players in his draft class.

He had an extra year of development.

Had he been two months earlier he would of been a 2020 draft pick

I can’t believe I still have to explain this.

Maybe it’s you that doesn’t understand how it works.

Hart didn’t go to the ECHL or AHL after his D+1 year because of the CHL agreement that prohibited him from turning pro (to the minor leagues). Thus, he played his D+2 in the WHL before being able to turn pro.

Cossa was able to turn pro after his D+1 year because of his early birthday relative to his draft class.

Another way to look at this is Cossa has another year of junior eligibility this year that was forgone. Hart couldn’t have gone back to juniors for another year, even if the team wanted to send him back.

 

[nbwingsfan]

If you focus on age while ignoring eligibility cut offs, sure. The greater point that you completely glossed over is that, in relative terms, Cossa turned pro a full year earlier than Hart and played less than half the games.

Hard to use that as ammunition against Cossa’s development timeline. But again, I’m not saying you have to be happy with his progress.

Honestly don’t know of any goalie prospect who turned pro after their D+1 year to the ECHL or AHL. I’ve just spent some time looking at a bunch of active North American goalies and most of them played through their D+2 season in college or juniors. He’s quite under experienced and testing waters that possibly no goalie has tested.

Hopefully it doesn’t cause significant issues and this will be rectified entering next year.

Show me the 1st round NHL goalies who played in the CHL during their 20 year old season.

So what you’re telling me is that if Cossa was born 2 months earlier it would be completely normal for him to be in pros, but since he was born in in November instead of September he should be in the CHL?

The NHL having a draft cut off because it’s against the rules to have a 17 yo on the roster does not change that Hart and Cossa had the exact same development YEARS in the CHL minus at 16 because Cossa wasn’t good enough to make the league and Hart was.

Going by games played is an entirely different argument than what was being had and something I actually agree with. He hasn’t played enough games to being in the pros yet, but that has nothing to do with age.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You mean NOrth American goalie hasn't tested these kind of waters. Kind of regular thing at Europe.

Always better thing to challenge the kid earlier, many great examples of it. In bigger picture that's better development path in genaral.

Of course, but in Europe the league structures are much more conducive to what we are looking at.

Players in Sweden coming up he could be playing J18, J20, Allsvenskan, SHL with fluidity. In Canadian juniors, it’s just your CHL team. There’s no loan program, there’s no ability to play in a secondary professional league, kids are kind of stuck with what they have.

It is a legitimate plus in favor of the European model, but I don’t think we will ever see a change in North America because of the business agreements element.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Maybe it’s you that doesn’t understand how it works.

Hart didn’t go to the ECHL or AHL after his D+1 year because of the CHL agreement that prohibited him from turning pro (to the minor leagues). Thus, he played his D+2 in the WHL before being able to turn pro.

Cossa was able to turn pro after his D+1 year because of his early birthday relative to his draft class.

Another way to look at this is Cossa has another year of junior eligibility this year that was forgone. Hart couldn’t have gone back to juniors for another year, even if the team wanted to send him back.

MOD. Both of their TWENTY year old seasons were “forgone”

Let’s imagine for a second they were born the same year:

Hart at 16- eligible for the CHL
Cossa at 16 - Eligible for the CHL, but didn’t make the team

Hart at 17- Eligible for the CHL, drafted because he was born before the draft cut off
Cossa at 17- eligible for the CHL, not drafted because he was born after the draft cut iff

Hart at 18 (D+1)- Eligible for the CHL, not pros as he has not played his 4 years in CHL

Cossa at 18 - Eligible for CHL, now drafted due to his late birthday status

Hart at 19 (D+2) - still not allowed to play minor pro
Cossa at 19 (D+1) - not allowed to play minor pro

Both players now allowed at 20 to play pro

Hope this spells this out for you that they had the exact same number of years in the CHL (had Cossa actually made the team)

Top goalie prospects playing in the CHL at 20 is very very rare

Maybe it’s you that doesn’t understand how it works.

Hart didn’t go to the ECHL or AHL after his D+1 year because of the CHL agreement that prohibited him from turning pro (to the minor leagues). Thus, he played his D+2 in the WHL before being able to turn pro.

Cossa was able to turn pro after his D+1 year because of his early birthday relative to his draft class.

Another way to look at this is Cossa has another year of junior eligibility this year that was forgone. Hart couldn’t have gone back to juniors for another year, even if the team wanted to send him back.

Each player was allowed to play at 16 in the CHL

Each player was allowed to play minor pro at 20.

What exactly is so hard for you to understand here.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Let’s assume for a second they were born the same year:

Hart at 16- eligible for the CHL
Cossa at 16 - Eligible for the CHL, but didn’t make the team

Hart at 17- Eligible for the CHL, drafted because he was born before the draft cut off
Cossa at 17- eligible for the CHL, not drafted because he was born after the draft cut iff

Hart at 18 (D+1)- Eligible for the CHL, not pros as he has not played his 4 years in CHL

Cossa at 18 - Eligible for CHL, now drafted due to his late birthday status

Hart at 19 (D+2) - still not allowed to play minor pro
Cossa at 19 (D+1) - not allowed to play minor pro

Both players now allowed at 20 to play pro

Hope this spells this out for you that they had the exact same number of years in the CHL (had Cossa actually made the team)

Top goalie prospects playing in the CHL at 20 is very very rare

Each player was allowed to play at 16 in the CHL

Each player was allowed to play minor pro at 20.

What exactly is so hard for you to understand here.

It’s entirely possible that I have the age restrictions wrong in application of age, but not in terms of eligibility relative to draft class. Also, how can you say that Cossa’s eligibility was not forgone?

Was he eligible to go back to the Oil Kings for his D+2 year? Yes? Did he pass on that right? Yes? Then it’s forgone. That’s the definition of the term. Declining to take an option.

Now look at Hart. His D+2 year was the 2017-18 season. He turned 19 in 2017. The age restriction rules are as follows:
1. Is 20 before Dec. 31st of the year (he wasn’t)
2. Has fulfilled 4 years of CHL eligibility (he hadn’t)

So I think we are probably both right in some way. They were both eligible in the year they turned 20 to turn pro. However, when entering his 4th year in the CHL, Cossa was 20 and it gave him the out, like you point out. The difference is Hart had only turned 19 entering his 4th year, so he didn't have another option than to get another season in the CHL. This is obviously because Hart got his chance to start earlier, but doesn't change the fact that it's a significant impact in development. Clearly you understand the rules, it's why Veleno was able to turn pro at 19 because he had the exceptional status that allowed him to start in the Q even a year earlier than Hart. You're just focusing on something that is insignificant to the discussion. THAT is the brick wall experience

Both arguments can be true, and it doesn’t change a f***ing thing regarding Hart having more than double the major junior experience when he turned pro compared to Cossa. Age be damned.

 

[nbwingsfan]

It’s entirely possible that I have the age restrictions wrong in application of age, but not in terms of eligibility relative to draft class. Also, how can you say that Cossa’s eligibility was not forgone?

Was he eligible to go back to the Oil Kings for his D+2 year? Yes? Did he pass on that right? Yes? Then it’s forgone. That’s the definition of the term. Declining to take an option.

Now look at Hart. His D+2 year was the 2017-18 season. He turned 19 in 2017. The age restriction rules are as follows:
1. Is 20 before Dec. 31st of the year (he wasn’t)
2. Has fulfilled 4 years of CHL eligibility (he hadn’t)

So I think we are probably both right in some way. They were both eligible in the year they turned 20 to turn pro. Cossa had 3 years served and an out because he was 20. Hart’s 4th year was at 19, so he didn’t have another option.

Both arguments can be true, and it doesn’t change a f***ing thing regarding Hart having more than double the major junior experience when he turned pro compared to Cossa. Age be damned.

Yes I agree Cossa is a weird example because yes he played so few games. I wouldn’t have been against him playing at 20 because of that.

It doesn’t change that they both had 4 years eligible to play in the CHL and then could leave at 20, and having elite goalie prospects still playing junior as a 20 year old is very rare, regardless of early or late birthdays. It just doesn’t ever really happen.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yes I agree Cossa is a weird example because yes he played so few games. I wouldn’t have been against him playing at 20 because of that.

It doesn’t change that they both had 4 years eligible to play in the CHL and then could leave at 20, and having elite goalie prospects still playing junior as a 20 year old is very rare, regardless of early or late birthdays. It just doesn’t ever really happen.

I can't proclaim to know why Cossa didn't play at 16. Maybe you are right and he just wasn't good enough to justify giving a spot on that Oil Kings team.

I think that it was a blessing because they did get the flexibility to push him if he was ready. We saw domination in the WHL it seems. The talent is better than that league could challenge, and his team was a powerhouse on top of that. The thing that is awkward is how shit the minor league teams are for the Wings. The stats at Toledo seem to be stabilizing after a pretty bad start. The GR stats are impossible to assess in my opinion. Obviously bad overall, but I have no idea how much practice time he is getting with that team. With the frequency of his appearances, I imagine it can't be much better than having to have an emergency fill in.

I don't think there were many people adamant that he SHOULDN'T turn pro, but knowing what we know now, I am curious how drastically different the reps are that he gets in Toledo as opposed to Edmonton, other than potentially killing his confidence.

 

[MVPete96]

The overreaction in this thread is absurd. He’s a huge 20 year old body who was raw when drafted. If he still looks bad in 3 years we have a problem. Not worried at all for now.

 

[jaster]

That’s not how things work

2003 borns were eligible for the 2021 Draft.

Cossa was born in 2002. He was one of the oldest players in his draft class.

He had an extra year of development.

Had he been two months earlier he would of been a 2020 draft pick

I can’t believe I still have to explain this.

Uh yeah, that's what I'm saying. He turned 18 before a majority of his draft class. He's old for his draft class. I showed you the comparative ages when Cossa and Hart were drafted. Pretty clear stuff. Hart was young for his draft class.

Also, age cutoffs for the draft are different than those for the WJC. "2003 borns were eligible for the 2021 draft" is not accurate. Some were. Others weren't eligible until the 2022 draft. To be eligible for a draft year, players must turn 18 by September 15 of that year. In contrast, the WJC is simply based on birth year.

 

[lidstromiscool]

He got pulled again last night after 5 goals against, can't say I would blame him on any of the goals.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

The overreaction in this thread is absurd. He’s a huge 20 year old body who was raw when drafted. If he still looks bad in 3 years we have a problem. Not worried at all for now.

/thread

 

[TKB]

That’s not how things work

2003 borns were eligible for the 2021 Draft.

Cossa was born in 2002. He was one of the oldest players in his draft class.

He had an extra year of development.

Had he been two months earlier he would of been a 2020 draft pick

I can’t believe I still have to explain this.

Not going to evaluate Cossa, I have no idea, but will clarify for readers who may be confused by the arguments going back and forth:

Cossa is a "late" birthday by hockey birthyear 02 (calendar year).

He is an "early" birthday be NHL draft class. Players must be 18 by September 15 of the draft year.
Players first eligible for the 2021 draft were Sep 16 - Dec 31 02's and Jan 1 - Sep 15 03s.

 

[Ezekial]

Cossa is in his D+2 and is pro, Hart was in the WHL in his D+2.

That's what I was saying, it is also a statement of fact. Didn't know the endless pivoting would happen.

 

[jaster]

Not going to evaluate Cossa, I have no idea, but will clarify for readers who may be confused by the arguments going back and forth:

Cossa is a "late" birthday by hockey birthyear 02 (calendar year).

He is an "early" birthday be NHL draft class. Players must be 18 by September 15 of the draft year.
Players first eligible for the 2021 draft were Sep 16 - Dec 31 02's and Jan 1 - Sep 15 03s.

Yeah I realize now that there was some talking past each other about early/late birthdays in terms of calendar year vs draft year. Oops.

 

[redwings8831]

 

[norrisnick]

Wait wat?

 

[SirloinUB]

Wait wat?

Wonder how much of a role draft pedigree/name recognition would play into something like this at the ECHL. A first round draft pick might catch more attention at this level?

 

[lidstromiscool]

Wonder how much of a role draft pedigree/name recognition would play into something like this at the ECHL. A first round draft pick might catch more attention at this level?

You don't think his .895% (34th in the league) is all star worthy?

 

[lilidk]

You don't think his .895% (34th in the league) is all star worthy?

Anyone drafted by Yzerman in the first round is worth all star game

 

[heyfolks]

A 1st round draft pick is an ECHL all star....... read into that what you will.

I can't recall any who started out in Toledo nor many who were sent there, even on a rehab stint.

 

[Killerjas]

Cossa 12/18 saves in a 7-4 loss. Another big oof.

 

[Filppula]

Cossa 12/18 saves in a 7-4 loss. Another big oof.

Absolutely incredible stuff. Literally from the outset of this season he has been worse than woeful. He’s just a total mess.

But don’t worry, time is all he needs. Just time.

 

[norrisnick]

Absolutely incredible stuff. Literally from the outset of this season he has been worse than woeful. He’s just a total mess.

But don’t worry, time is all he needs. Just time.

To be fair, it's not just time.

He also needs legions of online hockey fans talking mad shit about him. He's probably not playing better because not enough of us are letting our disappointment show. If we dial those numbers up he'll come around.