Prospect Info: Cossa Crushing it in Grand Rapids

[HoweFan]

Kirill must be moving up our prospect lists a little. It’s been awhile since we have had this many players of note in Toledo. Does he play centre I don’t remember, he’s listed as a forward

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Toledo has really turned the season around.

Last 12 games 10 wins. Pts% .598 currently. 12th best in the league, 3rd in conference, 3rd in Division.

Seems to be strong Division they are.

Fiesty ones, they are

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Scott Wheeler’s top 10 drafted NHL goalie prospects ranking, 2023 edition

Hey guess what guys. Wallsted #1.

Cossa dropped 2 spots and is now only ranked the #5 goalie prospect. Behind Dustin Wolf and Devon Levi.

Ugh.

 

[Henkka]

Scott Wheeler’s top 10 drafted NHL goalie prospects ranking, 2023 edition

Hey guess what guys. Wallsted #1.

Cossa dropped 2 spots and is now only ranked the #5 goalie prospect. Behind Dustin Wolf and Devon Levi.

Good goalies in front of him. Still not a bad goalie.

 

[Gniwder]

Lethemon is 12-1-3 playing for the same team?

 

[DoMakc]

Scott Wheeler’s top 10 drafted NHL goalie prospects ranking, 2023 edition

Hey guess what guys. Wallsted #1.

Cossa dropped 2 spots and is now only ranked the #5 goalie prospect. Behind Dustin Wolf and Devon Levi.

Ugh.

People tend to like Wheeler's ranking when it suits their concern trolling?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

People tend to like Wheeler's ranking when it suits their concern trolling?

I generally dislike Wheeler but it feels like he's being generous with Cossa's ranking considering the season the kid is having. It just feels like a kick in the dick when Wallstedt is looking more and more like a legit franchise goaltender while the Cossa and his "elite athleticism" isn't really looking like a first round goalie.

 

[GoBoltz56]

Lethemon is 12-1-3 playing for the same team?

Yep...

 

[Gniwder]

Yep...

Anyone watch him (Lethemon) play?

Looks like he signed a one year deal with GR.

 

[Claypool]

I generally dislike Wheeler but it feels like he's being generous with Cossa's ranking considering the season the kid is having. It just feels like a kick in the dick when Wallstedt is looking more and more like a legit franchise goaltender while the Cossa and his "elite athleticism" isn't really looking like a first round goalie.

It happens. Oh well. They probably should have drafted Wallstedt over Edvinsson at this point.

 

[lilidk]

Kirill must be moving up our prospect lists a little. It’s been awhile since we have had this many players of note in Toledo. Does he play centre I don’t remember, he’s listed as a forward

He could , but I believe he is AHL star at the bast

 

[norrisnick]

It happens. Oh well. They probably should have drafted Wallstedt over Edvinsson at this point.

Why? Goalies don't matter nearly as much as defensemen.

 

[ricky0034]

Wallstedt is obviously having a better season than Cossa but it's hilarious watching people talk about him like he's competing for the Calder in the NHL or something when he's 20th in the AHL in save percentage

 

[Bench]

Wallstedt is obviously having a better season than Cossa but it's hilarious watching people talk about him like he's competing for the Calder in the NHL or something when he's 20th in the AHL in save percentage

If people are going to draw sweeping conclusions from AHL stats, then they should take a look at Neddy's stats in the AHL. We got ourselves a gamer!

I mean, I see Cory Schneider has been putting up better numbers than Wallstedt and Askarov. For years now.

I doubt any of us would be too excited about having Cory in our system. There's a lot of team elements that go into goalie stats. I figured all the people here downplaying the importance of drafting goalies early would also understand why their counting stats are volatile to team performance.

Wallstedt was my guy going into the draft (and Askarov even moreso) but I'm not able to draw too many conclusions from these numbers at the moment. We'll need to see how they hold up starting 50 games a year. And against better competition. Some goalies, like Neddy and Cory, are going to be AHL starting guys but struggle with consistent results in the big league.

We won't know until we know. That's frustrating and why people hate drafting goalies, but that's how it rolls. Every single one of these guys in my post is immensely talented so I really don't see why all 3 of these young guys can't have great careers.

 

[lilidk]

It happens. Oh well. They probably should have drafted Wallstedt over Edvinsson at this point.

You are jocking , right?

 

[Gniwder]

Wallstedt is obviously having a better season than Cossa but it's hilarious watching people talk about him like he's competing for the Calder in the NHL or something when he's 20th in the AHL in save percentage

Yes, there is the chance that they both wind up sucking.

There was no requirement to trade up or to pick a goalie. There were other players in a position of need.

 

[Claypool]

Why? Goalies don't matter nearly as much as defensemen.

You are jocking , right?

At this rate Wallstedt will be a better impact player than Edvinsson.

 

[jkutswings]

At this rate Wallstedt will be a better impact player than Edvinsson.

I'd take that bet all day long. Goaltender development is closer to voodoo than science. Sure, Wallstedt looks very good now, and he may very well become a stud in the NHL. But he might also implode for no reason - netminders can be just that unpredictable.

Projecting defensemen certainly isn't linear. But it's a heck of a lot closer to that than the roller coaster that typically defines projecting goalies.

 

[Pavels Dog]

At this rate Wallstedt will be a better impact player than Edvinsson.

I know you're probably trolling, but I don't see how Edvinsson doing better at both the SHL and AHL level translates to Wallstedt being more impactful.

 

[Frk It]

If people are going to draw sweeping conclusions from AHL stats, then they should take a look at Neddy's stats in the AHL. We got ourselves a gamer!

I mean, I see Cory Schneider has been putting up better numbers than Wallstedt and Askarov. For years now.

I doubt any of us would be too excited about having Cory in our system. There's a lot of team elements that go into goalie stats. I figured all the people here downplaying the importance of drafting goalies early would also understand why their counting stats are volatile to team performance.

Wallstedt was my guy going into the draft (and Askarov even moreso) but I'm not able to draw too many conclusions from these numbers at the moment. We'll need to see how they hold up starting 50 games a year. And against better competition. Some goalies, like Neddy and Cory, are going to be AHL starting guys but struggle with consistent results in the big league.

We won't know until we know. That's frustrating and why people hate drafting goalies, but that's how it rolls. Every single one of these guys in my post is immensely talented so I really don't see why all 3 of these young guys can't have great careers.

Why are we using a 36 year old goalie playing in the AHL at the very end of his career to try to make us feel better about a guy who took a step back in his +1 season and then a big step back in his +2 season?

You can say we don't know until we know, most starters in the league (the quality ones) did not have struggles like this in their +2 season.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Why are we using a 36 year old goalie playing in the AHL at the very end of his career to try to make us feel better about a guy who took a step back in his +1 season and then a big step back in his +2 season?

You can say we don't know until we know, but show me a guy who struggled to this extent in their +2 season and went on to become a quality NHL starter.

Why are we using his 19 game Covid shortened season as the comparable basis for determining a step back last year?

Based on crude math including playoffs:
D-1: 33 games, 74 goals, 932 shots (2.23, .921)
D0: 19 games, 30 goals, 506 shots (1.57, .941)
D+1: 65 games, 142 goals, 1658 shots (2.18, .915)

I mean you can call that a step back if you want, but I would say that the draft year is a bit of an aberration as far as seasons go. They had 4 opponents with a combined record of 37-43-11. If anything, it would raise his stock in an unwarranted basis for people who scout stats, but it really shouldn't be looked at as a bar of expectations.

 

[Frk It]

Why are we using his 19 game Covid shortened season as the comparable basis for determining a step back last year?

Based on crude math including playoffs:
D-1: 33 games, 74 goals, 932 shots (2.23, .921)
D0: 19 games, 30 goals, 506 shots (1.57, .941)
D+1: 65 games, 142 goals, 1658 shots (2.18, .915)

I mean you can call that a step back if you want, but I would say that the draft year is a bit of an aberration as far as seasons go. They had 4 opponents with a combined record of 37-43-11. If anything, it would raise his stock in an unwarranted basis for people who scout stats, but it really shouldn't be looked at as a bar of expectations.

Ok so let’s say his +1 where he went from a .941 sv% to a .913 sv% wasn’t a step back… how about this year?

He got drafted off that 19 game season, for better or worse. You can’t say it’s an aberration when without it he probably doesn’t get taken #15.

 

[jaster]

Is the thread title still accurate? I'm not saying it's not, but I've lost track, and my type of OCD insists that things like this are correct, even if I can't tell. So here I am, insisting!

 

[cvaicunas]

Yes, there is the chance that they both wind up sucking.

There was no requirement to trade up or to pick a goalie. There were other players in a position of need.

I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that they could have secured a goalie later in said draft, and or, not move up in the first round. But I think goalie was very clearly a position of need for the team that off season as well. In reality, everything is still a position of need for a team of this caliber. Most pundits and internet sleuths alike were in unison that Yzerman had swiftly bolstered the goalie position that off season. Now obviously to this point Ned has not panned out as hoped, and Cossa's counting stats this season have worried many, but let's not forget.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Ok so let’s say his +1 where he went from a .941 sv% to a .913 sv% wasn’t a step back… how about this year?

He got drafted off that 19 game season, for better or worse. You can’t say it’s an aberration when without it he probably doesn’t get taken #15.

His roughly .900 in his first pro year in a league that doesn't play defense is not something that can easily be compared a .915 (including playoffs) while playing for a championship hopeful WHL team with multiple NHL prospects in front of him.

I'm not saying that his STATS aren't different, but his overall quality of play is something that isn't as easily contextualized.

2020-21: played on a loaded WHL championship caliber team against shit opponents
2021-22: played more than 3x as many games on a loaded WHL championship caliber team against a wider array of teams including other playoff caliber teams
2022-23: plays on a shaky at best team in a D tier pro league that has minimal structure and nothing that resembles competent defense on most nights

I mean from a development perspective, I am happier with Cossa's play this year than I was all of last year becaue he seems to be finding ways to improve his play. It's well documented how underwhelming he was early in the year, and to look at his last 10 starts for Toledo, he's actually 7-2-1 at a 2.5 GAA and a 0.907 sv% with only 1 true disaster giving up 6 on 18. Take that out and it's 7-1-1 at 2.11 and 0.924.

The notion that this has been a bad year for Cossa (developmentally) feels entirely wrong to me. The turnaround and the confidence that he likely has been building recently can be very significant for his development. Doesn't mean it amounts to anything in the end, but it's better than showing up and being bad or decent and not improving at all.

Wallstedt was more pro ready based on what, 3 years of professional hockey under his belt in Sweden? He came into the AHL and played as bland as bland gets. His first 15 games in the AHL he was 5-7-3 with a 3.2 GAA and a 0.894 sv%. His past 10 have been more lights out (aside from his last game) where he's been 8-1-1 with a 2.0 GAA and a 0.933 sv%. If he continued down the path of his first 15, he wouldn't be celebrated as much as he is by some here, but he has improved with time, reps, and comfort (the same is true for Cossa). It's a positive year for both, and the one you liked more as of the day of the draft should probably still be your favorite today, otherwise you are just extremely short sighted.