Prospect Info: Cossa Crushing it in Grand Rapids

[Rzombo4 prez]

Am I the only one who really couldn't care less about Cossa at this point?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Am I the only one who really couldn't care less about Cossa at this point?

Yes. Pick a side!

 

[Gniwder]

I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that they could have secured a goalie later in said draft, and or, not move up in the first round. But I think goalie was very clearly a position of need for the team that off season as well. In reality, everything is still a position of need for a team of this caliber. Most pundits and internet sleuths alike were in unison that Yzerman had swiftly bolstered the goalie position that off season. Now obviously to this point Ned has not panned out as hoped, and Cossa's counting stats this season have worried many, but let's not forget.

Goalies are extremely hard to predict, that's why many of us don't like the idea of taking them in the first round much less trading up to do it.

Not saying Cossa is a bust yet, Kolzig was also a first rounder that had really shitty AHL and ECHL stats, yet somehow he managed to take the Caps to the Cup finals (against the WIngs, so I'm sure many remember that).

Olaf Kolzig Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Olaf Kolzig, a hockey player and coach from Johannesburg, South Africa born Apr 6 1970 who was active from 1987 to 2009.

www.hockeydb.com

Ideally though, you'd rather get lucky in the latter rounds like they did with Holtby (4th round).

 

[ricky0034]

the funny thing is in 5 years probably some random 4th rounder will be better than both Cossa and Wallstedt and people will spend the next decade after that saying the Wings should have drafted them instead

 

[Hen Kolland]

Am I the only one who really couldn't care less about Cossa at this point?

Care in what sense, I guess would be my follow up to that. I care in that I hope he progresses and proves to become a valuable asset to the team. I don't think anybody truly doesn't care, because that means that not only do you not care about the prospect becoming something worthwhile, but you also don't care in how the Wings manage their draft assets.

Cossa's selection was the product of moving 23 (Mantha deal), 48 (Staal trade), and 138 (Merrill deal). If it turns out that we made all these moves to end up with nothing from Cossa and a on-again, off-again relationship with Vrana, that does not reflect positively on the front office.

 

[ricky0034]

Care in what sense, I guess would be my follow up to that. I care in that I hope he progresses and proves to become a valuable asset to the team. I don't think anybody truly doesn't care, because that means that not only do you not care about the prospect becoming something worthwhile, but you also don't care in how the Wings manage their draft assets.

Cossa's selection was the product of moving 23 (Mantha deal), 48 (Staal trade), and 138 (Merrill deal). If it turns out that we made all these moves to end up with nothing from Cossa and a on-again, off-again relationship with Vrana, that does not reflect positively on the front office.

the Wings did also get the second rounder that became Buchelnikov from the Mantha trade for the record

 

[Retire91]

Am I the only one who really couldn't care less about Cossa at this point?

Can you provide some context lol, don't care because its too early, never cared, tired of seeing the name?
There aren't too many first round picks I just quit caring about unless they bust hard like Zadina Cholowski Svechnikov Sheahan.

 

[Hen Kolland]

the Wings did also get the second rounder that became Buchelnikov from the Mantha trade for the record

I’m less likely to take a hard stance on management performance based on the good luck of potentially finding a nice player on day 2 than I am by liquidating assets, pooling them together, moving into the part of the draft that *should be* easier to identify talent, and proceeding to whiff.

That’s why people have a significant vested interest in Cossa’s development

 

[jkutswings]

Am I the only one who really couldn't care less about Cossa at this point?

Nope. The moment somebody drafts a goalie, my instant reaction is, "Whelp, I guess I'll have zero idea if that's a good pick for at least 4-5 years."

I wish him well and hope for the best. But I expect Seider to win a Norris sooner than Cossa plays in the NHL, let alone locks down the starting job (or busts out, or has enough of a sample size to declare anything in between).

 

[Bench]

Yes. Pick a side!

View attachment 650856

Who is Askarov in this war? Because I still think he's the best of the lot.

 

[jkutswings]

Who is Askarov in this war? Because I still think he's the best of the lot.

Do Coke and Pepsi extoll the virtues of Faygo?!?

CHOOSE YOUR ALLEGIANCE AND ENTER THE COLISEUM OF WAR!!!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Who is Askarov in this war? Because I still think he's the best of the lot.

He’s Zemo.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Who is Askarov in this war? Because I still think he's the best of the lot.

It’s like you don’t even know how to goalie. Just becaus Askarov benches more than the other two doesn’t mean he’s better at goalieing

 

[Bench]

He’s Zemo.

I had to look up who that is. I'm feeling very old and out of touch.

 

[cvaicunas]

Goalies are extremely hard to predict, that's why many of us don't like the idea of taking them in the first round much less trading up to do it.

Not saying Cossa is a bust yet, Kolzig was also a first rounder that had really shitty AHL and ECHL stats, yet somehow he managed to take the Caps to the Cup finals (against the WIngs, so I'm sure many remember that).

Olaf Kolzig Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Olaf Kolzig, a hockey player and coach from Johannesburg, South Africa born Apr 6 1970 who was active from 1987 to 2009.

www.hockeydb.com

Ideally though, you'd rather get lucky in the latter rounds like they did with Holtby (4th round).

Yea I agree in the idea of drafting goalies later. However I'm not bothered by Yzerman's moves given the quality of prospects that year, in addition to the teams' goalie pipeline.
That said I was team Wallstedt.

 

[Henkka]

Yea I agree in the idea of drafting goalies later. However I'm not bothered by Yzerman's moves given the quality of prospects that year, in addition to the teams' goalie pipeline.

Yeah, generally you take them from low rounds, but sometimes you can go high. It's nothing exceptional.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Yes. Pick a side!

View attachment 650856

You know they are both dead right?

 

[Oddbob]

How does any kid stand a chance with this scrutiny? Goalies take time, as in years, everyone knows this, yet in this thread he gets judged on every game he plays. LIKE RELAX!

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Can you provide some context lol, don't care because its too early, never cared, tired of seeing the name?
There aren't too many first round picks I just quit caring about unless they bust hard like Zadina Cholowski Svechnikov Sheahan.

I think I just saw him as a very raw project who had a good deal of upside, but was going to take a while to get there (if at all). You can't really rush, project prospects. They are projects for a reason. That just isn't how it works. This board at times makes me think that people were somehow expecting him to be playing in the NHL in his draft +3 year when no one from the organization (or scouting community) ever suggested that was a realistic possibility. They are inferring from his draft position that he was somehow close to being NHL ready which is absolutely bonkers. Truthfully, a late 1st round pick really isn't that special. The sooner people realize that a 20th overall pick is far closer to a mid-2nd round pick than a top 10 pick, the better. While I would prefer that he not be struggling in he ECHL in his +2 year, it is hardly inconsistent with my expectations of him as a raw project. The league is notoriously hard on goalies and we don't have a huge, consistent sample size of +2 goalies playing there. This lack of context makes assessing from stats on paper super difficult. I am trusting the judgment of the organization that he is where he needs to be at this point to get better as a prospect. As such, I have no real reason to obsess about him as a prospect until he actually has the time to put in the work required to get better.

I have also tuned him out because there isn't much posting around here about his actual play. A lot of people are regurgitating stats or making endless comparisons of him to Wallstedt, but no one is actually watching him and commenting on his technical or mental progress as a player. If you read through these 20 pages, you would have no idea what he actually looks like as a goalie.

 

[Oddbob]

I think I just saw him as a very raw project who had a good deal of upside, but was going to take a while to get there (if at all). You can't really rush, project prospects. They are projects for a reason. That just isn't how it works. This board at times makes me think that people were somehow expecting him to be playing in the NHL in his draft +3 year when no one from the organization (or scouting community) ever suggested that was a realistic possibility. They are inferring from his draft position that he was somehow close to being NHL ready which is absolutely bonkers. Truthfully, a late 1st round pick really isn't that special. The sooner people realize that a 20th overall pick is far closer to a mid-2nd round pick than a top 10 pick, the better. While I would prefer that he not be struggling in he ECHL in his +2 year, it is hardly inconsistent with my expectations of him as a raw project. The league is notoriously hard on goalies and we don't have a huge, consistent sample size of +2 goalies playing there. This lack of context makes assessing from stats on paper super difficult. I am trusting the judgment of the organization that he is where he needs to be at this point to get better as a prospect. As such, I have no real reason to obsess about him as a prospect until he actually has the time to put in the work required to get better.

I have also tuned him out because there isn't much posting around here about his actual play. A lot of people are regurgitating stats or making endless comparisons of him to Wallstedt, but no one is actually watching him and commenting on his technical or mental progress as a player. If you read through these 20 pages, you would have no idea what he actually looks like as a goalie.

I agree with most of this. I think we just need to kind of let him do what he does in the AHL the next couple of years and hope he fixes the things that he has trouble with. Doesn't really matter who the other teams take as on any given day one player can look better than the other. Remember how everyone wanted Vilardi and we got Rasmussen and it was hated on until this season, and now it looks like the reverse will be who is better.

 

[Retire91]

I think I just saw him as a very raw project who had a good deal of upside, but was going to take a while to get there (if at all). You can't really rush, project prospects. They are projects for a reason. That just isn't how it works. This board at times makes me think that people were somehow expecting him to be playing in the NHL in his draft +3 year when no one from the organization (or scouting community) ever suggested that was a realistic possibility. They are inferring from his draft position that he was somehow close to being NHL ready which is absolutely bonkers. Truthfully, a late 1st round pick really isn't that special. The sooner people realize that a 20th overall pick is far closer to a mid-2nd round pick than a top 10 pick, the better. While I would prefer that he not be struggling in he ECHL in his +2 year, it is hardly inconsistent with my expectations of him as a raw project. The league is notoriously hard on goalies and we don't have a huge, consistent sample size of +2 goalies playing there. This lack of context makes assessing from stats on paper super difficult. I am trusting the judgment of the organization that he is where he needs to be at this point to get better as a prospect. As such, I have no real reason to obsess about him as a prospect until he actually has the time to put in the work required to get better.

I have also tuned him out because there isn't much posting around here about his actual play. A lot of people are regurgitating stats or making endless comparisons of him to Wallstedt, but no one is actually watching him and commenting on his technical or mental progress as a player. If you read through these 20 pages, you would have no idea what he actually looks like as a goalie.

Haha we should get a road trip together down to Toledo. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

 

[Bench]

Truthfully, a late 1st round pick really isn't that special. The sooner people realize that a 20th overall pick is far closer to a mid-2nd round pick than a top 10 pick, the better.

If we had sacred scrolls, I feel like this would be powerful enough to transcribe into them.

 

[jkutswings]

If we had sacred scrolls, I feel like this would be powerful enough to transcribe into them.

As long as we can add the fine print.*

* Detroit then trades 20OA, two second rounders, and a 3rd for 12OA. Which in turn gets packaged with 10OA to yield the 4th overall pick. Who shall be known as The Cornerstone.

 

[Henkka]

Truthfully, a late 1st round pick really isn't that special. The sooner people realize that a 20th overall pick is far closer to a mid-2nd round pick than a top 10 pick, the better.

BLUE BULLET DRAFT PICK VALUE CHART (2022 EDITION)

After three years, it is finally time for an update to the Blue Bullet Draft Pick Value Chart. The value chart is based off a combination of my research on historical rates for time on ice for defe…

bluebulletreport.com

 

[Retire91]

I find it interesting to follow because there is a lot riding on it, this was a trade up, multiple high picks spent. I don't mind the slow burn and speculation.