Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XI

[Bluelines]

Not true. You can still get non-medical exemptions.

Bill to eliminate N.B.’s non-medical exemptions from school-based vaccination program is voted down

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb...DC/HealthProfessionals/NBIPG-policy_2-9-e.pdf

Policy 2.9 - Required Immunization of School Children Purpose: The purpose of this policy is to provide standards to the RHAs regarding the documentation required to comply with Sections 12(1) and 12(3) of the Reporting and Diseases Regulation 2009-136 under the Public Health Act pertaining to children entering New Brunswick schools for the first time.

Preamble: Since 1982, New Brunswick legislation has required proof of immunization against measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus and polio as a condition of school entry.

In November 2009, the Public Health Act was proclaimed. This legislation has expanded the requirements for those children entering New Brunswick schools for the first time to include proof of immunization against diphtheria, tetanus, polio, pertussis, measles, rubella, mumps, varicella, and meningococcal disease. Immunization

I think most people understand that there are exceptions to the rule in almost every regulation but there is an Act in place in New Brunswick that requires school children to have proof of immunization. So if you want to split hairs yes you can get an exemption if you follow the exemption process as outlined in the Act. Which the vast majority wont do because they are not paranoid assholes who willingly put other peoples children in danger.

Proof of immunization is not required if the parent of legal guardian of the child provides:
a. A medical exemption signed by a medical practitioner or nurse practitioner, on a form provided by the Minister;
b. A written statement of his or her objections to the immunization(s) required by the Minister signed by a parent or legal guardian on a form provided by the Minister.

 

[Bluelines]

So once again, simple solution. Isolate the vulnerable, the rest of us can live our lives. But with all its wisdom, this government thought it would be better to screw everyone over instead. Makes sense

How do you isolate a 70+ year old who lives in a multi generational family? For Caucasian North American people it's unusual to have grand ma or grand pa living (it happens but not very common) with you but in many other cultures it is quite common to have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house. You have solutioned a problem that solves your world experience but left out a large swath of our multiethnic society..

 

[GoonieFace]

How do you isolate a 70+ year old who lives in a multi generational family? For Caucasian North American people it's unusual to have grand ma or grand pa living (it happens but not very common) with you but in many other cultures it is quite common to have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house. You have solutioned a problem that solves your world experience but left out a large swath of our multiethnic society..

I am going to assume that in these cases the grandparents have a separate living area with separate access, so that’s pretty simple. If not, than they need to make the appropriate changes to their situation. That’s not on 98.9% of us to change our whole lives around for a select few. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

[Bluelines]

ya becuase thats what I said...

Its just so sensible to essentially shutdown the entire world economy for a glorified flu with a 99.8% recovery rate while suicide, depression, overdose, domestic assault and unemployment rates skyrocket and tens of thousands will be left bankrupt and jobless when their small and even medium sized businesses shutter. Oh well amazon, walmart and other multi national corps are up 10’s of billions since march. A government with its citizens in mind would close nursing homes and protect the vulnerable not eviscerate the middle class

So your solution is do nothing, survival of the fittest, herd immunity? Well over 2 million dead with strict protocols in place and its just a glorified flu? If your company can't survive a down year, was it really that healthy to begin with? Keep in mind our economy was in the largest expansion in history, it was well over due for a recession. So with or with out this virus we would more than likely be in a recession right now.

Perhaps there is somethin that the world governments are not telling you about this virus, maybe there is a really good reason for such draconian measures. Perhaps they knew these mutations were going to happened and feared a stronger more vaccine resistant strain?

 

[Nineteen67]

How do you isolate a 70+ year old who lives in a multi generational family? For Caucasian North American people it's unusual to have grand ma or grand pa living (it happens but not very common) with you but in many other cultures it is quite common to have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house. You have solutioned a problem that solves your world experience but left out a large swath of our multiethnic society..

This is why you don’t want a ten yr old playing hockey in NB?

 

[Bluelines]

I am going to assume that in these cases the grandparents have a separate living area with separate access, so that’s pretty simple. If not, than they need to make the appropriate changes to their situation. That’s not on 98.9% of us to change our whole lives around for a select few. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Your assuming wrong.

So kids with allergies to peanuts.. Do you send your kid to school with or with out peanut products? Did you adjust to the few?

Do you park in handicap parking spots or do you adjust and park further away from the store?

Do you pay into UI/EI? Did you adjust your lifestyle to pay into this government benefit to support the few or do you refuse to pay into it?

When there is a Pride parade in your city, do you just ignore the blocked off streets or do you drive right down the middle of the parade because why should you adjust your life to accommodate the few?

As a civilized society the many support the few in many many cases, this is what makes us a decent ethical society.

We are stronger collectively than we are individually, if you continue to think with that me first mentality, you will spend your golden years reaping what you sowed. You don't use people till they no longer suit your needs then dispose of them. the elderly that are dieing are the people who built this country, the people who fought in WW2 to preserve your rights of freedom, they are the people who built the roads you drive on every day, they are the people who built the city you live in, they deserve to be revered and respected not isolated and treated like a burden.

The plan you have to isolate the seniors, simply wont work, not every one lives in a LTC, not every one can be locked away till this virus is gone. many live in multi generational houses or live by them selves in their own home. One fo the top factors in death in groups under 60 years old is obesity, do you suggest we round up all the obese people? COPD is another major factor, if you have asthma should we round up all those people too?

You are trying to take an extremely complicated situation and reduce it down to a simple one line solution, your suggestion is just not comprehensive enough to protect the vulnerable.

 

[PuckMagi]

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb...DC/HealthProfessionals/NBIPG-policy_2-9-e.pdf

Policy 2.9 - Required Immunization of School Children Purpose: The purpose of this policy is to provide standards to the RHAs regarding the documentation required to comply with Sections 12(1) and 12(3) of the Reporting and Diseases Regulation 2009-136 under the Public Health Act pertaining to children entering New Brunswick schools for the first time.

Preamble: Since 1982, New Brunswick legislation has required proof of immunization against measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus and polio as a condition of school entry.

In November 2009, the Public Health Act was proclaimed. This legislation has expanded the requirements for those children entering New Brunswick schools for the first time to include proof of immunization against diphtheria, tetanus, polio, pertussis, measles, rubella, mumps, varicella, and meningococcal disease. Immunization

I think most people understand that there are exceptions to the rule in almost every regulation but there is an Act in place in New Brunswick that requires school children to have proof of immunization. So if you want to split hairs yes you can get an exemption if you follow the exemption process as outlined in the Act. Which the vast majority wont do because they are not paranoid assholes who willingly put other peoples children in danger.

Proof of immunization is not required if the parent of legal guardian of the child provides:
a. A medical exemption signed by a medical practitioner or nurse practitioner, on a form provided by the Minister;
b. A written statement of his or her objections to the immunization(s) required by the Minister signed by a parent or legal guardian on a form provided by the Minister.

All you have to do is fill out a form and you can send your unvaccinated child to public school. It's not required that your child be vaccinated. They just use that language to trick people into thinking it's mandatory.

 

[Bluelines]

This is why you don’t want a ten yr old playing hockey in NB?

Your in a thread about Covid-19 , ummm.... err.... you do get that right?

 

[4thline]

All you have to do is fill out a form and you can send your unvaccinated child to public school. It's not required that your child be vaccinated. They just use that language to trick people into thinking it's mandatory.

And -again- if the disease you opted your kid out of vaccination for has a local outbreak the kid will be pulled out of school.

 

[Bluelines]

All you have to do is fill out a form and you can send your unvaccinated child to public school. It's not required that your child be vaccinated. They just use that language to trick people into thinking it's mandatory.

there is no trick, it is required that your child be vaccinated. The Act is pretty easy reading, states it clearly. Having the ability to ask for an exemption does not mean there is not an Act that requires your child to be vaccinated.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So your solution is do nothing, survival of the fittest, herd immunity? Well over 2 million dead with strict protocols in place and its just a glorified flu? If your company can't survive a down year, was it really that healthy to begin with? Keep in mind our economy was in the largest expansion in history, it was well over due for a recession. So with or with out this virus we would more than likely be in a recession right now.

Perhaps there is somethin that the world governments are not telling you about this virus, maybe there is a really good reason for such draconian measures. Perhaps they knew these mutations were going to happened and feared a stringer more vaccine resistant strain?

- Hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year. "Glorified" might be a bad choice of words but there is a parallel. A more dangerous form of the flu might be a better way of saying it.

- It's not a "down year" for many, many businesses, it's a "year down". No one can survive being shut down for a year. And even if you could, it would take using your personal savings to survive it. I sure as hell wouldn't do that. I'd lay everyone off and close the doors.

 

[Bluelines]

- Hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year. "Glorified" might be a bad choice of words but there is a parallel. A more dangerous form of the flu might be a better way of saying it.

- It's not a "down year" for many, many businesses, it's a "year down". No one can survive being shut down for a year. And even if you could, it would take using your personal savings to survive it. I sure as hell wouldn't do that. I'd lay everyone off and close the doors.

We've had as many deaths in one year that the flu has in 10 and this is with drastic mitigation measure in place. The flu has a vaccine, sometimes not very effective but there is a vaccine every year, we have not had that for Covid for the last year.

There is no business in Canada that has been shut down for a year because of government regulations. Many have experienced a downturn in revenue but not closed.

 

[GoonieFace]

Your assuming wrong.

So kids with allergies to peanuts.. Do you send your kid to school with or with out peanut products? Did you adjust to the few?

Do you park in handicap parking spots or do you adjust and park further away from the store?

Do you pay into UI/EI? Did you adjust your lifestyle to pay into this government benefit to support the few or do you refuse to pay into it?

When there is a Pride parade in your city, do you just ignore the blocked off streets or do you drive right down the middle of the parade because why should you adjust your life to accommodate the few?

As a civilized society the many support the few in many many cases, this is what makes us a decent ethical society.

We are stronger collectively than we are individually, if you continue to think with that me first mentality, you will spend your golden years reaping what you sowed. You don't use people till they no longer suit your needs then dispose of them. the elderly that are dieing are the people who built this country, the people who fought in WW2 to preserve your rights of freedom, they are the people who built the roads you drive on every day, they are the people who built the city you live in, they deserve to be revered and respected not isolated and treated like a burden.

The plan you have to isolate the seniors, simply wont work, not every one lives in a LTC, not every one can be locked away till this virus is gone. many live in multi generational houses or live by them selves in their own home. One fo the top factors in death in groups under 60 years old is obesity, do you suggest we round up all the obese people? COPD is another major factor, if you have asthma should we round up all those people too?

You are trying to take an extremely complicated situation and reduce it down to a simple one line solution, your suggestion is just not comprehensive enough to protect the vulnerable.

You realize they are isolated right now anyway. So why should the rest of society be put on hold as well.

I follow all the guidelines, I haven’t been in normal contact with my elderly parents since last March.

I am asthmatic. None of this should take away from the daily lives of the rest of society. We can still function on a daily basis while following rules. Why the need to close everything down.

it’s ok to keep liquor stores open and you have to make sure people can still buy their lottery tickets, but god forbid little Timmy can play baseball in a controlled environment.

Who’s thriving right now? The upper class, the large corporations who are making money hand over fist. The government doesn’t care about small business. You are too blind to see it

 

[Confucius]

- Hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year. "Glorified" might be a bad choice of words but there is a parallel. A more dangerous form of the flu might be a better way of saying it.

- It's not a "down year" for many, many businesses, it's a "year down". No one can survive being shut down for a year. And even if you could, it would take using your personal savings to survive it. I sure as hell wouldn't do that. I'd lay everyone off and close the doors.

Jeez, you are heartless. LOL!

 

[PuckMagi]

And -again- if the disease you opted your kid out of vaccination for has a local outbreak the kid will be pulled out of school.

Ya, I understand that. Perfectly reasonable. Local outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases are very rare in New Brunswick.

It's still not mandatory and not a requirement unless you engage in doublethink.

 

[Nineteen67]

Your in a thread about Covid-19 , ummm.... err.... you do get that right?

There are very few multi- family dwellings in Atlantic Canada....tell your officials to quit abusing the children and get them back in school and let them enjoy whatever activities they wish to participate in.

 

[PuckMagi]

there is no trick, it is required that your child be vaccinated. The Act is pretty easy reading, states it clearly. Having the ability to ask for an exemption does not mean there is not an Act that requires your child to be vaccinated.

omg, really? this is some serious doublethink going on here.

is it really considered "mandatory" or a "requirement" if you can just opt out by filling out a simple form?

and you don't have to "ask for an exemption". Anyone is granted the exemption if you just fill out a form. You don't need a medical reason to opt out.

 

[Bluelines]

You realize they are isolated right now anyway. So why should the rest of society be put on hold as well.

I follow all the guidelines, I haven’t been in normal contact with my elderly parents since last March.

I am asthmatic. None of this should take away from the daily lives of the rest of society. We can still function on a daily basis while following rules. Why the need to close everything down.

it’s ok to keep liquor stores open and you have to make sure people can still buy their lottery tickets, but god forbid little Timmy can play baseball in a controlled environment.

Who’s thriving right now? The upper class, the large corporations who are making money hand over fist. The government doesn’t care about small business. You are too blind to see it

Who's "they"?

Timmy not playing baseball is a good thing, it's the middle of winter they would lose the ball in the top of the 1st inning.

Large corps making money hand over fist is how its been since I can remember, its no difference. Large corps making a lot of money is a good thing, they employ a lot of people.

 

[4thline]

Ya, I understand that. Perfectly reasonable. Local outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases are very rare in New Brunswick.

It's still not mandatory and not a requirement unless you engage in doublethink.

Cool. The covid vaccine will be the exact same. Opt out if you want, if the disease isn't prevalent then no biggie. When it is you get "pulled out of school" (adult equivalent- barred from certain buildings and services). Not mandatory, not a requirement.

 

[GoonieFace]

Who's "they"?

Timmy not playing baseball is a good thing, it's the middle of winter they would lose the ball in the top of the 1st inning.

Large corps making money hand over fist is how its been since I can remember, its no difference. Large corps making a lot of money is a good thing, they employ a lot of people.

There are large indoor baseball facilities they can use safely.

large corps making money at the expense of small business though, that’s the big difference.

 

[Confucius]

Who's "they"?

Timmy not playing baseball is a good thing, it's the middle of winter they would lose the ball in the top of the 1st inning.

Large corps making money hand over fist is how its been since I can remember, its no difference. Large corps making a lot of money is a good thing, they employ a lot of people.

Winter baseball is a riot, but you have to use a very soft ball. Hit to short and have the entire infield searching it out. Using a regular baseball would freeze and would be brutal.

If someone didn't vaccinate their child how could they infect a vaccinated child? The only person they could infect is another unvaccinated child. So when it comes to that I'm sure the parents will be well aware of where the blame will be placed and just whose health they are risking.

 

[cbbb25]

Who's "they"?

Timmy not playing baseball is a good thing, it's the middle of winter they would lose the ball in the top of the 1st inning.

Large corps making money hand over fist is how its been since I can remember, its no difference. Large corps making a lot of money is a good thing, they employ a lot of people.

Canada bans cruises until March 2022. Look the writing is on the wall that we won't be going back to normal life for years now. If were all supposed to be vaccinated by September im not seeing why the border, travel, tourism, indoor dinning and everything will have to stay restricted into 2022. And in 2022 they will say actually 2023 and in 2023 we will be watching the Hartford Leafs and Tampa Bay Raptors and Dunedin Blue Jays. All because our government is cool to locking us down for 3-5 more years.

 

[Future]

How do you isolate a 70+ year old who lives in a multi generational family? For Caucasian North American people it's unusual to have grand ma or grand pa living (it happens but not very common) with you but in many other cultures it is quite common to have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house. You have solutioned a problem that solves your world experience but left out a large swath of our multiethnic society..

So why can’t individual families make these choices themselves? The government and workplaces can support those that don’t want to take that risk rather than printing money to support the entire crippled system. Families that aren’t in situations like that can at least go about their lives normally if they so choose.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

We've had as many deaths in one year that the flu has in 10 and this is with drastic mitigation measure in place. The flu has a vaccine, sometimes not very effective but there is a vaccine every year, we have not had that for Covid for the last year.

This is simply not true. 5 year average of flu and flu related pneumonia deaths is 7,333 per year.

There is no business in Canada that has been shut down for a year because of government regulations. Many have experienced a downturn in revenue but not closed.

Many businesses have been completely shut down for months total now and severely restricted even when allowed to open. My favorite restaurant in Burlington seats seats 300 and even when they could open they were restricted to 10 people. Come on, that's not a "down year".

Edit:. Leading causes of death, total population, by age group

 

[Confucius]

Canada bans cruises until March 2022. Look the writing is on the wall that we won't be going back to normal life for years now. If were all supposed to be vaccinated by September im not seeing why the border, travel, tourism, indoor dinning and everything will have to stay restricted into 2022. And in 2022 they will say actually 2023 and in 2023 we will be watching the Hartford Leafs and Tampa Bay Raptors and Dunedin Blue Jays. All because our government is cool to locking us down for 3-5 more years.

Not a chance everyone gets vaccinated by September. Nevermind that the vaccine only gives 5 to 6 months benefit. Nevermind the vaccine you get may not help with all the variants that have and may develop in the coming months.