Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[Nineteen67]

U.S. COVID-19 average deaths by day | Statista

View attachment 378567

I’d like to know how many died with Covid not a factor in the death?

 

[Nineteen67]

and per 100,000 capita all those worse than the ones haven't
States ranked by COVID-19 cases: Dec. 9. North Dakota has the most confirmed COVID-19 cases per 100,000 population of all U.S. states, while Vermont has the fewest, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

who cares about cases?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There is a reason you are asked to stick around for 10-15 minutes after getting the seasonal flu shot.
Some people have reactions.

Progress is great eh? Supercomputers can do the work in minutes that used to take days.

I'm all for progress, evolution may have escaped us, but we are making progress.

Weird thing was I took flu shot and no reaction at all ... then got COVID but only had breathing/chest pressure issues for 3-4 days with no fever or cough and then quick recovery ... somehow we need to understand how these things all work together ... this whole thing is a guinea pig trial ... but for most of province it is a total non issue really it is only SERIOUS in areas of high density in Toronto and Peel ... really difficult to manage this one but killing our small businesses in retail and food service at XMAS is gonna hurt Ford because he wants to keep schools open ... da whole thing will come out later

 

[ULF_55]

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19, by Age and ...

Although more excess deaths have occurred among older age groups, relative to past years, adults aged 25–44 years have experienced the largest average percentage increase in the number of deaths from all causes from late January through October 3, 2020. The age distribution of COVID-19 deaths shifted toward younger age groups from May through August (9); however, these disproportionate increases might also be related to underlying trends in other causes of death. Future analyses might shed light on the extent to which increases among younger age groups are driven by COVID-19 or by other causes of death. Among racial and ethnic groups, the smallest average percentage increase in numbers of deaths compared with previous years occurred among White persons (11.9%) and the largest for Hispanic persons (53.6%), with intermediate increases (28.9%–36.6%) among AI/AN, Black, and Asian persons. These disproportionate increases among certain racial and ethnic groups are consistent with noted disparities in COVID-19 mortality.***

 

[Pink Mist]

Human trials need to be minimum 2 years, and can take up to 10 years to gather and be confident in the data. There has been one short phase, there are normally 3 phases, and often 4.

Basically, the rushed vaccines that are going into people now ARE the human "trials". No matter how much money you throw at something, you can't buy time. 2 months of human trials are not nearly enough time to see effects of the vaccine that can affect people.

View attachment 378566

I am wondering how the reporting is going to happen. Every day we get ad nauseum updates

Covid - Cases / ICU's / Deaths. Widely reported in all regions.

Can we please see:

Vaccinations - Reactions / Hospitalizations / Deaths. I have a feeling this information will not be provided to the consuming public.

I say this as the UK has advised that due to severe cases of allergic reactions, "Resuscitation facilities should be available at all times for vaccinations. Vaccination should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available."

Potential Pfizer COVID vaccine allergic reactions should not make public "anxious"

I am not an anti-vaxxer, I am just concerned for the public and am not interested in being the Guinea Pig for this global experiment.

Human trials do not need to be a minimum of 2 years, and there have been three phases. That graph is misleading because it includes exploratory, preclinical, and manufacturing stages which have all been expedited due to the amount of funding thrown at research globally compared to other vaccines. And regulatory approval has been shortened because it is an emergency use authorization, similar to what happened for H1N1 vaccine

 

[ULF_55]

Weird thing was I took flu shot and no reaction at all ... then got COVID but only had breathing/chest pressure issues for 3-4 days with no fever or cough and then quick recovery ... somehow we need to understand how these things all work together ... this whole thing is a guinea pig trial ... but for most of province it is a total non issue really it is only SERIOUS in areas of high density in Toronto and Peel ... really difficult to manage this one but killing our small businesses in retail and food service at XMAS is gonna hurt Ford because he wants to keep schools open ... da whole thing will come out later

Alberta is starting a huge shutdown Saturday at midnight.

Little to no restrictions here and our number are as bad as Ontario and Quebec with 1/3 the population.

Trying to keep the economy going is resulting in shutting it down.

 

[Nineteen67]

Alberta is starting a huge shutdown Saturday at midnight.

Little to no restrictions here and our number are as bad as Ontario and Quebec with 1/3 the population.

Trying to keep the economy going is resulting in shutting it down.

What are they shutting down?

 

[justashadowof]

I've been in that vulnerable position laying in a hospital bed terrified of dying with an IV drip of some noxious heart medication causing a burning rash all the way up my left arm to my shoulder. It felt like I was being embalmed alive.

I was told I had to have a further medical intervention (an operation and a medical device). I refused and said let's wait this out to see if medications would do the trick. They tried the "you will die" first. That didn't work on me. They went away.

Next more of them came back and told me not only could I die, I'd never be allowed to drive my car again. That was starting to work on me, "if I can't drive and my wife doesn't drive, how will we take care of her parents, how will I get to my job?" but I still refused. They went away again.

Next, they sent a former patient with the device and he told me horror stories about individuals who didn't get the device. I still refused.

Another day passed. They came back said if I didn't get the device implanted, they wouldn't allow me to leave the hospital. They got me. It shouldn't have worked but I sick of gd place and wanted out. I gave in.

So I eventually left after the nasty infection they had given me subsided, the operation was done, the device I didn't want was implanted.

Almost 20 years have passed. I never played another minute of hockey. I can't run, not that I was every built for that. I had to give up golf because the repetitive motion could cause damage. I can't go interior camping any longer. I can't use any bluetooth device because it interferes with the device. I was told to stay away from many other things (electrical hand tools) but I eventually ignored that advice. That IV drug therapy is now discontinued because it has proven to do more harm than good. I chronically take medications that sap me of my energy. Sure I'm alive, gained a lot of weight, never had a proven need for the device although I've experienced several unnecessary (and unpleasant) cardiac therapies (shocks) over the years. My disposition was never right for this type medical intervention. I'm too nervous, have too high of a fight/flight reaction to the world. I couldn't sleep for months.

Life as walking talking guinea pig. Anyways, I hope the parallels to this "voluntary" vaccine are self-evident.

 

[Sens]

It’s not going to be good in January

Watching news.. Toronto school board wants to extend Xmas vacation two weeks because parents have begun pulling students out of class to self isolate for family gatherings

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

and per 100,000 capita all those worse than the ones haven't
States ranked by COVID-19 cases: Dec. 9. North Dakota has the most confirmed COVID-19 cases per 100,000 population of all U.S. states, while Vermont has the fewest, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

I find North Dakota an interesting case.

I currently live in New Brunswick. Population 747 K. North Dakota has 762 K. New Brunswick density is 10.5, North Dakota 4.1.

ND COVID+ = 86, 149
NB COVID+ = 542

ND COVID death = 1,081
NB COVID death = 7

 

[ULF_55]

What are they shutting down?

Kenney announces lockdown-style COVID-19 restrictions for Alberta | Calgary Herald

Premier Jason Kenney announced a major shutdown of Alberta businesses on Tuesday, heeding months-long calls from health experts for stronger restrictions to curb the spread of COVID-19 as cases continue to rise.
New measures include a shutdown of bars, restaurants, lounges and casinos, effective Dec. 13. Fitness centres and personal service businesses, such as hair and cosmetic salons, will also have to close. Food pickup and delivery will be allowed to continue.
Kenney announces lockdown-style COVID-19 restrictions for Alberta
Retail stores must reduce customer capacity to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy, with a minimum of five customers. Shopping malls will be limited to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy.
The UCP government also immediately banned all indoor and outdoor social gatherings. Close contacts are limited to household members only, but those who live alone are still allowed up to two close contacts for in-person visiting.
Alberta has also implemented mandatory indoor public masking across the province. The measure applies to all indoor workplaces and facilities outside the home. Farm operations are excluded.
All places of worship will be limited to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy for in-person attendance, starting Dec. 13. Virtual or online services are strongly encouraged. Drive-in services where individuals do not leave their vehicles are not subject to capacity restrictions.
Working from home will also be mandatory unless an employer determines that work “requires a physical presence for operational effectiveness.”
Outdoor recreation remains allowed, but facilities with indoor spaces except for washrooms will be closed. Libraries, science centres, interpretive centres, museums, galleries, amusement parks and water parks will be closed.
Hotels can remain open but must follow restrictions.

 

[stealth1]

It’s not going to be good in January

Watching news.. Toronto school board wants to extend Xmas vacation two weeks because parents have begun pulling students out of class to self isolate for family gatherings

After reading that it's no wonder I can't stand the majority of people. Every one wants this to end and yet they continue to do crap that makes this last only longer. I've lost all faith in humanity since this started.

 

[Nineteen67]

Kenney announces lockdown-style COVID-19 restrictions for Alberta | Calgary Herald

Premier Jason Kenney announced a major shutdown of Alberta businesses on Tuesday, heeding months-long calls from health experts for stronger restrictions to curb the spread of COVID-19 as cases continue to rise.
New measures include a shutdown of bars, restaurants, lounges and casinos, effective Dec. 13. Fitness centres and personal service businesses, such as hair and cosmetic salons, will also have to close. Food pickup and delivery will be allowed to continue.
Kenney announces lockdown-style COVID-19 restrictions for Alberta
Retail stores must reduce customer capacity to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy, with a minimum of five customers. Shopping malls will be limited to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy.
The UCP government also immediately banned all indoor and outdoor social gatherings. Close contacts are limited to household members only, but those who live alone are still allowed up to two close contacts for in-person visiting.
Alberta has also implemented mandatory indoor public masking across the province. The measure applies to all indoor workplaces and facilities outside the home. Farm operations are excluded.
All places of worship will be limited to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy for in-person attendance, starting Dec. 13. Virtual or online services are strongly encouraged. Drive-in services where individuals do not leave their vehicles are not subject to capacity restrictions.
Working from home will also be mandatory unless an employer determines that work “requires a physical presence for operational effectiveness.”
Outdoor recreation remains allowed, but facilities with indoor spaces except for washrooms will be closed. Libraries, science centres, interpretive centres, museums, galleries, amusement parks and water parks will be closed.
Hotels can remain open but must follow restrictions.

Are hospitals at or near normal capacity for this time of year? Particularity for flu and pneumonia?

 

[ULF_55]

Are hospitals at or near normal capacity for this time of year? Particularity for flu and pneumonia?

Not normally.

We normally add a few additional beds, from under-used wards for flu season, IIRC, usually in January and release them in March.

 

[Pink Mist]

For those who keep saying "we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine" (which they've tested for, but I digress) consider that we don't know the long term effects of contracting covid-19.

 

[Pink Mist]

I think it's reasonable to be skeptic of the vaccine, but there are so many resources which address these concerns if you spend a minute to actually look up them up instead of just buying into panic spread by bad faith actors

 

[Muston Atthews]

After reading that it's no wonder I can't stand the majority of people. Every one wants this to end and yet they continue to do crap that makes this last only longer. I've lost all faith in humanity since this started.

yeah f*** those people for wanting to see family!

 

[X66]

Human trials need to be minimum 2 years, and can take up to 10 years to gather and be confident in the data. There has been one short phase, there are normally 3 phases, and often 4.

Basically, the rushed vaccines that are going into people now ARE the human "trials". No matter how much money you throw at something, you can't buy time. 2 months of human trials are not nearly enough time to see effects of the vaccine that can affect people.

View attachment 378566

I am wondering how the reporting is going to happen. Every day we get ad nauseum updates

Covid - Cases / ICU's / Deaths. Widely reported in all regions.

Can we please see:

Vaccinations - Reactions / Hospitalizations / Deaths. I have a feeling this information will not be provided to the consuming public.

I say this as the UK has advised that due to severe cases of allergic reactions, "Resuscitation facilities should be available at all times for vaccinations. Vaccination should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available."

Potential Pfizer COVID vaccine allergic reactions should not make public "anxious"

I am not an anti-vaxxer, I am just concerned for the public and am not interested in being the Guinea Pig for this global experiment.

The vaccine is NOT rushed, we need to get rid of that narrative.

Essentially, that since this virus IS A Coronavirus, that worked in vaccine makers favour. Why? Because those viruses often work alike, and we already have ton of research put into and have vaccines that are effective against those.

The analogy that scientists used was simple but effective. "It was almost like swapping a blue Lego for a red one in their assemblies."

 

[X66]

After reading that it's no wonder I can't stand the majority of people. Every one wants this to end and yet they continue to do crap that makes this last only longer. I've lost all faith in humanity since this started.

I absolutely love living in the Western World.

But the one thing I can't STAND about it is how selfish and entitled people become over such trivial things, like what they think is their freedom lol.

In reality it has nothing to do with their freedom, but rather the fact that they don't care about anyone but themselves.

A lot of Canada is a lot like Rural America, and that's all you need to know lol.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Be nice if I could get back the fees I've paid over the past 5 decades, especially insurance eh?

Did anyone break a contract and say they won't cover you going forward and still expect you to pay? Because, that would be evil.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I absolutely love living in the Western World.

But the one thing I can't STAND about it is how selfish and entitled people become over such trivial things, like what they think is their freedom lol.

In reality it has nothing to do with their freedom, but rather the fact that they don't care about anyone but themselves.

A lot of Canada is a lot like Rural America, and that's all you need to know lol.

You know that works both ways right? There are numerous people in here that clearly don't care about what happens to the small businesses getting decimated right now over restrictions and people dealing with mental health issues, other health problems, etc. because of the same. All some of us are asking for is a measured approach taking into account all of the problems people are dealing with (not just case counts).

 

[kb]

Until the vaccine is available, if proven in a real study, this could be a temporary solution.

Well, in all fairness, the vaccine has yet to be proven effective or safe in a real study, so not really sure why this would require one?

Odd why no one wants to do a broad study on the effects of temporary high dose Vitamin D3 on illness, and/or regular supplementation vs placebo on illness rates.

 

[kb]

Still puzzles/baffles me that there is talk about mandating a vaccine for 14 million Ontarians when 1% of such population has tested positive for the virus in 9 months.

It's like people can't think rationally anymore because of the non-stop media hype.

 

[Confucius]

The vaccine is NOT rushed, we need to get rid of that narrative.

Essentially, that since this virus IS A Coronavirus, that worked in vaccine makers favour. Why? Because those viruses often work alike, and we already have ton of research put into and have vaccines that are effective against those.

The analogy that scientists used was simple but effective. "It was almost like swapping a blue Lego for a red one in their assemblies."

we have never had a vaccine for a corona virus.

 

[Cypruss]

Human trials do not need to be a minimum of 2 years, and there have been three phases. That graph is misleading because it includes exploratory, preclinical, and manufacturing stages which have all been expedited due to the amount of funding thrown at research globally compared to other vaccines. And regulatory approval has been shortened because it is an emergency use authorization, similar to what happened for H1N1 vaccine

We are certainly in uncharted waters here Pink Mist. This is a new situation, and there is plenty of information out there supporting both sides of the argument. The curse of the information age is too much info, and many without a consensus. I am not saying that either of us is wrong, just that there is an awful lot of uncertainty.

I read lots of information on both sides. My brother is a doctor in BC, and I frequently recall my conversation with him back in April about this new Covid thing and he stated don't hang your hat on a Vaccine, as they take 5 years to develop properly, and if the weight of the world is thrown at it....maybe if we are lucky, in 2 years if they shorten the trial periods we could see one that they are comfortable with trying...but you cant rush time. (Yes - the weight of the world was thrown at this for sure). His other comment was if there is anything in less than 2 years, then perhaps the rumors that this escaped from the level 5(?) virology lab in Wuhan - a mere few block from the epicenter may be right and they have already had this vaccine in the works. That is a rabbit hole that I am not interested in going down at all here however....

The timing cant be rushed. That is my concern. We are on a hockey board - for reference, it takes a good 5 years to re-evaluate the draft, and have fun doing a re-draft. Who was actually the best mid-range pick now that time has passeed...was it Perfetti? Lundell? Amirov? Who is better - Matthews or Laine (I'm from Winnipeg and I hands down say Matthews).

We can disagree here, and that is fine. I assure you, if you are comfortable with your research and assessment on how everything has transpired in 2020, and you are willing to get the first batches of the vaccine, then I 100% support your decision and encourage you to do what you feel is best. I just hope that (and from most people who I have had conversations with on this matter do) that you respect the other portion of the population who simply does not feel comfortable with how fast this came out (or completely trust Big Pharma's agenda....there are hundreds of billions of dollars at stake here annually) and respect our decision to pass at receiving the vaccine at this time.

I am not here to tell anyone what to do...I just hope people are making the best informed decisions for themselves and their family members. Take care all, stay safe!!

Final note - I appreciate the latitude the moderators here have allowed for people to express their thoughts and opinions on this board. There was one in the Winnipeg Jets forum, but it was removed when the play-ins started and they did not want to bring it back. As one of my other favorite teams, I lurk on these Leaf boards, and hope nothing more than to see Toronto and Winnipeg Canadian division final!

Take care all