Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[Canadian Finn]

I think that’s the problem, should it be force on people who wishes not to take the vaccine?

they could change employment to a different occupation that doesn't require vaccination I guess.

 

[Gabriel426]

they could change employment to a different occupation that doesn't require vaccination I guess.

That’s horrible if that’s the case.
The job of the government is not to push a mandate that you need vaccination or else, rather they should listen and ask why don’t people want vaccinations? If they don’t even want to bother with that, then we need to vote them out.

 

[PromisedLand]

Half the participants and TWO months.

Is that standard practice for vaccine?

I think in general the thinking is that if there is any long-term impact of the vaccine it presents itself within 40 to 50 day period as body responds

it is very rare that a vaccine today will impact you 10 or 20 yrs down the road.

 

[Canadian Finn]

That’s horrible if that’s the case.
The job of the government is not to push a mandate that you need vaccination or else, rather they should listen and ask why don’t people want vaccinations? If they don’t even want to bother with that, then we need to vote them out.

let me give you an idea of why the vaccinations will be required.

there are currently class action lawsuits being waged against long term care providers. These lawsuits are based on negligence in providing care. "IF" a LTC facility didn't mandate mandatory vaccinations (it'll be government mandated, but lets say it wasn't), that would give the class action cases a greater chance of success (and greater payout).

It is the duty of the care provider to ensure their employees don't spread (or bring in) covid into a LTC. It has clearly been shown (though tracing) much of the death in LTC have been caused by workers bringing in the disease.

I'm sure you can appreciate why any front line worker will be required to be vaccinated? If you have a loved one in a LTC facility, would you be ok with workers treating your loved ones without the vaccine?

 

[PromisedLand]

I think that’s the problem, should it be force on people who wishes not to take the vaccine?

Here is the interesting thing.

- We are wearing masks to protect someone else in case we have covid (i.e. asymptomatic)

BUT

- we are going to take vaccine mostly to protect ourselves (data doesn't tell us that we will not transmit or get infected by covid - only that we will not have severe illness if we were susceptible)

I think eventually the way to go about this is that people who think they might get severely ill should take the vaccine; and the folks that choose to risk it is their choice; people who have taken vaccine will be protected.

I think by around June/July we technically should have everyone vaccinated in Canada who wants to get vaccinated; and then we should open everything up. People who choose to risk covid its their choice they won't be hurting someone else who is vaccinated anyway.

This vaccine passport business is moronic IMO;

 

[Nineteen67]

the general public can buy a ticket to any event.

Doesn't mean they are going to be let in.

The point is, why would they even bother preventing their customers from entering and spending money.

 

[kb]

credentials, such as the ability work operate on ones brain, or provide life saving surgery (the examples I used) is a direct correlation to intelligence. Yes.

Front lines medical staff all have high levels of intelligence.

Yep. Listen to these Alberta ICU/Front line personnel. Very intelligent people with credentials....I assume this is who you listen to, right?

 

[Canadian Finn]

The point is, why would they even bother preventing their customers from entering and spending money.

the point?

these businesses are currently closed. They have no customers and no money.

So when considering the options 1) Stay closed = no revenue OR 2) mandate entry with vaccination = revenue

I think you have your answer.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Yep. Listen to these Alberta ICU/Front line personnel. Very intelligent people with credentials....I assume this is who you listen to, right?

what a surprise. Albertamerica. The province that doesn't even believe in wearing masks.

I'm not playing the game of copy and pasting youtube videos.

Did you have a look at those who were first in line in Britain, or the USA? I believe the USA actually has priority lists available online. Have a look.

Interview on Hamilton news today with a surgeon from Juravinski Cancer hospital. Their opinions didn't follow the nurses in Alberta.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Here is the interesting thing.

- We are wearing masks to protect someone else in case we have covid (i.e. asymptomatic)

BUT

- we are going to take vaccine mostly to protect ourselves (data doesn't tell us that we will not transmit or get infected by covid - only that we will not have severe illness if we were susceptible)

I think eventually the way to go about this is that people who think they might get severely ill should take the vaccine; and the folks that choose to risk it is their choice; people who have taken vaccine will be protected.

I think by around June/July we technically should have everyone vaccinated in Canada who wants to get vaccinated; and then we should open everything up. People who choose to risk covid its their choice they won't be hurting someone else who is vaccinated anyway.

This vaccine passport business is moronic IMO;

I tend to fall in this boat. Unlike most, I wore a mask everywhere outside my house from day one (and I live in a zone that has only seen 4 cases since day one). Not worried about me, being mindful of others. I personally have no intention of being vaccinated. I am not anti vaccine in the least. What I am is someone who hasn't been sick in over 20 years and never gets vaccinated. I have no underlying conditions. I am in better shape than most people half my age (and could probably best many of them in physical competitions). I CrossFit 5 times per week. I eat well. I have a lot of faith in my immune system and there are many others who should have it before me. One day it will fail but for now, I don't see a need nor do I see any reason for anyone to force me. I will continue doing what I do for other people's safety.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think that’s the problem, should it be force on people who wishes not to take the vaccine?

I’ll have to ask someone but I don’t think they can force people to take a drug under EU Authorization, at least in the US.

 

[kb]

what a surprise. Albertamerica. The province that doesn't even believe in wearing masks.

I'm not playing the game of copy and pasting youtube videos.

Did you have a look at those who were first in line in Britain, or the USA? I believe the USA actually has priority lists available online. Have a look.

Interview on Hamilton news with a surgeon from Juravinski Cancer hospital. Their opinions didn't follow the nurses in Alberta.

So they are simply parroting what they have been told to say. That doesn't carry any more weight than a construction worker.

You might learn something from that video. They address what you say - they are not anti-maskers. But it's easy to take shortcuts in intelligent discussion to get to a predetermined position.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I’ll have to ask someone but I don’t think they can force people to take a drug under EU Authorization, at least in the US.

I know in some provinces it is written into their Emergency Measures Act that they can force you.

 

[Nineteen67]

the point?

these businesses are currently closed. They have no customers and no money.

So when considering the options 1) Stay closed = no revenue OR 2) mandate entry with vaccination = revenue

I think you have your answer.

This makes no sense?

 

[Gabriel426]

I’ll have to ask someone but I don’t think they can force people to take a drug under EU Authorization, at least in the US.

Exactly. People don’t want to take the vaccines for a variety of reasons. Can’t force people to take it.

 

[PromisedLand]

I tend to fall in this boat. Unlike most, I wore a mask everywhere outside my house from day one. Not worried about me, being mindful of others. I personally have no intention of being vaccinated. I am not anti vaccine in the least. What I am is someone who hasn't been sick in over 20 years and never gets vaccinated. I have no underlying conditions. I am in better shape than most people half my age (and could probably best many of them in physical competitions). I CrossFit 5 times per week. I eat well. I have a lot of faith in my immune system and there are many others who should have it before me. One day it will fail but for now, I don't see a need nor do I see any reason for anyone to force me. I will continue doing what I do for other people's safety.

I think I will take the vaccine when available; and given that vaccines gives us an immune boost to combat covid; once I have it I don't really care much if others aren't take it - as long as everyone who wants to get vaccinated has been vaccinated I am fine with people choosing not take it.

I am going to take it just in case I develop severe symptoms or even if I recover without vaccine I want to avoid the probability of having health impacts. I am not sure my genes are strong enough to handle covid given my family health history even if I am healthy for now (knock wood).

But until then; I just ask folks to continue wearing the mask.

I like to think of it as:

- until people who want to get vaccinated get it; folks not wearing masks etc... is like drinking+driving; they are endangering someone else's life including their own

- after folks who want to get vaccinated are vaccinated; then it is almost like someone doing lines/drinking heavily every days and sitting next to me; my health is not impacted by their choices

of course the example is extreme, getting covid is not like destroying your liver lol; most people i think might recover without any health issues.

I just cant find any data on what percentage of folks after recovery feel normal and then categorize them by:

- age, health conditions

Only thing available about what "recovery" even means is the following link but it doesnt tell me what % of recoveries have these symptoms

What they don't tell you about surviving COVID-19


Last I saw Fauci talk about it he said they "think" it is between 25% to 30% of the people; but didn't give specifics based on age, conditins etc...

Also, Americans on average are in worst shape than other folks on the planet; so not sure what those percentages would be in Canada

 

[kb]

This makes no sense?

Kinda missing option 3 there I think, the one where the businesses should have never been shut down in the first place?

 

[Canadian Finn]

So they are simply parroting what they have been told to say. That doesn't carry any more weight than a construction worker.

You might learn something from that video. They address what you say - they are not anti-maskers. But it's easy to take shortcuts in intelligent discussion to get to a predetermined position.

Your opinion is a cancer surgeon's opinion is no different than a construction workers.

that is your choice.

I'm not sure if you socialize with any surgeons, or top medical professionals, but parroting opinions isn't something they are known for doing. In fact, they generally have the biggest DGAF opinion, as they know the world can't do without them.

Up to you who you believe.

Until you are told you have to take the vaccine or lose your job. Then it's up to you whether to stay employed, or find new employment.

You always have a choice.

 

[Canadian Finn]

This makes no sense?

how does it not make sense?

pick any public event closed.

use our beloved Leafs. When they start, they won't be able to let fans in. So zero revenue. You think they won't jump at the chance of making revenue again?

take it down to a smaller level. Cinema's, restaurants, night clubs, every entertainment venue that is closed. You are comparing zero revenue currently to a potential way of opening and generating revenue.

Not sure why this doesn't make sense?

 

[Canadian Finn]

Kinda missing option 3 there I think, the one where the businesses should have never been shut down in the first place?

that isn't an option.

they are closed.

they are not reopening any time soon.

so your option 3 isn't an option. (it's a wish you have, nothing more)

 

[Nineteen67]

there is not enough data to show that vaccines will eliminate transmission of covid though; only that if you take the vaccine chances of you developing severe illness requiring hospitalization/ICU goes down

but you can still get infected or transmit covid even if you get the vaccine

So everyone would be better off if they took quercetin, zinc, D3, C or Ivermectin if you’re not pregnant.

 

[Gabriel426]

let me give you an idea of why the vaccinations will be required.

there are currently class action lawsuits being waged against long term care providers. These lawsuits are based on negligence in providing care. "IF" a LTC facility didn't mandate mandatory vaccinations (it'll be government mandated, but lets say it wasn't), that would give the class action cases a greater chance of success (and greater payout).

It is the duty of the care provider to ensure their employees don't spread (or bring in) covid into a LTC. It has clearly been shown (though tracing) much of the death in LTC have been caused by workers bringing in the disease.

I'm sure you can appreciate why any front line worker will be required to be vaccinated? If you have a loved one in a LTC facility, would you be ok with workers treating your loved ones without the vaccine?

For starter, people living in long term care homes don’t usually go out. Thus, there are really two ways that they could have COVID, staff or visitors.
Secondly, LTC varies in quality-staff, infrastructures, conditions...not all LTC got hit from COVID. I live near two LTC and one of them is literally a 5 stars hotel while the other looks like a motel 6.
Thirdly, part of the reason why it seemed like it only spread in LTC(at least in the Vancouver GTA) had to do with staff working in more than one LTC, and testing back then sucks.
I have not been following up with the Class Action law suit and I won’t comment.
To your question, of course I want my love ones to be safe but at the same time I want the people who is taking care of my love ones to be safe too.
The question should not be vaccination or else but more to do with is the Vaccine safe? If it is, unless you are anti-vaccine, you will take the vaccine.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Exactly. People don’t want to take the vaccines for a variety of reasons. Can’t force people to take it.

In some provinces they can (based on Acts at least).

 

[PromisedLand]

So everyone would be better off if they took quercetin, zinc, D3, C or Ivermectin if you’re not pregnant.

I don't have a medical background so can't speak much on it and i did not read up on any article that says anything about these yet ; and I like to follow Einstein's model

 

[kb]

So a positive to this test is what is currently being called, counted, and treated like Covid. Here is the list of things it could be instead (courtesy of the test maker) and it explains why there is suddenly no flu season.

- Ebola
- SARS
- Covid 19
- Rabies
- Common Cold
- Influenza
- Hepatitus C
- Hepatitus E
- West Nile
- Polio
- Measles