Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[cbbb25]

That is the dumbest comparison in the world.

Where in our rights does it say that a private business has to serve you? People seem to be all pro-capitalism until the rules don't bend to their conformity. Its not a right to attend a leaf game or go to a restaurant.

So get vaccinated or not but you cant belly ache that you cant attend leaf games because you decided to be the minority who didn't want to get vaccinated. Part of the population is also nudists and they are restricted on how they can interact with the rest of society as well. Such as wear clothes to attend a leafs game.

 

[4thline]

Look at the stats posted on ontario health office:

View attachment 378433

Its pretty simple. People over 70 definitely need the vaccine. That is the dangerous at risk people. Everyone else.....basically 3% death rate for those in the 60’s. But everyone else is like 0-1% death rate. Sorry but they don’t need the vaccine unless they are protecting those who are at high risk but they should be vaccinated (if they want to).

Now compare hospitalization rates to the number of beds in Canada
Now consider how unprecedentedly tragic a .5-1% death rate is applied to the middle age population.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Do you think there should be a distribution of wealth to help heal the planet and population from COVID, other diseases and polution?

Sure, but not at the expense of destroying the lives of the upper middle class that worked very hard to get where they are.

 

[ULF_55]

This is where I put my foot down. You can’t force people to take a vaccine and put something in their bodies. It is my body and I should be able to choose what I do.

Those who are scared of COVID or are high risk or elderly then sure go right ahead and take the vaccine. They probably should. I don’t understand why I would have to take it then if those who need it take it. They will have the vaccine which should protect them from COVID correct? If I want to jump on a airplane or go see a leaf game, then those who go are either those who got the vaccine (protected) or those who didn’t and chose not to.

I don't think they can force anyone to take the vaccine. However, the decision not to be vaccinated might have an impact.

Criminal transmission of HIV - Wikipedia

There are 2 types of vaccines, I would think unless you are an anti-vaccine zealot, as in you won't take any vaccine period, not the type who choses which vaccine to take, I'd wait for the dead-virus vaccine as that becomes available. Afterall, if you are willing to consume the live vaccine why wouldn't you take the dead one?

 

[Future]

90-95% protected

Yet according to Moderna (unaware of Pfizer stats) their vaccine has a 100% chance at preventing serious symptoms. So even if you’re exposed and you get unlucky and contract the virus despite being vaccinated, you’ll probably just have cold-like symptoms.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Where in our rights does it say that a private business has to serve you? People seem to be all pro-capitalism until the rules don't bend to their conformity. Its not a right to attend a leaf game or go to a restaurant.

So get vaccinated or not but you cant belly ache that you cant attend leaf games because you decided to be the minority who didn't want to get vaccinated. Part of the population is also nudists and they are restricted on how they can interact with the rest of society as well. Such as wear clothes to attend a leafs game.

Ummm...it's written all over the charter and there have been numerous precedent cases regarding how businesses can't arbitrarily discriminate against you and refuse to serve you. Dude.

 

[4thline]

Sure, but not at the expense of destroying the lives of the upper middle class that worked very hard to get where they are.

Talk about your fear mongering

 

[Mickey Marner]

Based on the goal of 60-70% vaccination to achieve herd immunity, the death rates posted above and Canada's population distribution. I expect the cutoff will be 30 years old, or roughly ⅔ of the population, plus those under 30 with comorbidities and/or autoimmune illnesses.

www.google.com/amp/s/learningenglish.voanews.com/amp/how-many-people-need-vaccines-to-reach-herd-immunity-/5667984.html

 

[Clark4Ever]

And so it begins.

It's absolutely ridiculous. They should give people the option of wearing a mask or providing proof of a negative Covid test depending on the circumstances.

I for one won't be intimidated into taking the vaccine until I'm convinced that it's safe. Luckily, I work from home and my line of work won't mandate it. In the interim, I'll settle for ordering in, watching movies/sports on my big screen at home, and traveling with my family within Ontario.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Talk about your fear mongering

Fear Mongering? Lol, open your eyes.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yet according to Moderna (unaware of Pfizer stats) their vaccine has a 100% chance at preventing serious symptoms. So even if you’re exposed and you get unlucky and contract the virus despite being vaccinated, you’ll probably just have cold-like symptoms.

Definitely makes it less harsh.

 

[Pink Mist]

Ummm...it's written all over the charter and there have been numerous precedent cases regarding how businesses can't arbitrarily discriminate against you and refuse to serve you. Dude.

You'd be mistaken. The Charter only has to do with the relationship between you and the government.

Interaction between citizens and private businesses is enforced through provincial and federal human rights legislation

 

[waingr0]

This Doctor (at a Senate hearing) is basically claiming Ivermectin is a preventative cure for covid. Why are we talking about mandatory vaccines?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ummm...it's written all over the charter and there have been numerous precedent cases regarding how businesses can't arbitrarily discriminate against you and refuse to serve you. Dude.

Poster has a point, he can’t smoke in businesses.

 

[cbbb25]

Ummm...it's written all over the charter and there have been numerous precedent cases regarding how businesses can't arbitrarily discriminate against you and refuse to serve you. Dude.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree on these topics. I enjoy debating and I have taken yours and others opinions in consideration and I hope you guys likewise keep an open mind. I hope you have a good night

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You'd be mistaken. The Charter only has to do with the relationship between you and the government.

Interaction between citizens and private businesses is enforced through provincial and federal human rights legislation

So I can refuse service to someone based on gender, age, sexual preference and race? Good to know.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Unless the choice to not vaccinate falls under one of the options of grounds for discrimination, I don't think it'll fly.

Grounds for Discrimination

• race
• national or ethnic origin
• colour
• religion
• age
• sex
• sexual orientation
• gender identity or expression
• marital status
• family status
• disability
• genetic characteristics
• a conviction for which a pardon has been granted or a record suspended

What is Discrimination? | Canadian Human Rights Commission

 

[MapleLeafs77]

Now compare hospitalization rates to the number of beds in Canada
Now consider how unprecedentedly tragic a .5-1% death rate is applied to the middle age population.

And those who aren't willing to take a chance of 0.5 to 1% death rate should take the vaccine. Those who don’t then its their life and their choice that they have a 0.5-1% of dying from COVID.

There is no stats on Ontario page about hospitalizations. There is graphs about how much testing we are doing per day and deaths per day. Our death per day is less than half (almost a third) of what they were in april. So maybe we are treating covid patients more correctly? Our testing has gone from 10,000 to 60,000 per day since april.

 

[Pink Mist]

So I can refuse service to someone based on gender, age, sexual preference and race? Good to know.

No, because it would violate the Ontario human rights code.

Which, for the record protects against discrimination for:
- Age
- Ancestry, colour, race
- Citizenship
- Ethnic origin
- Place of origin
- Creed
- Disability
- Family status
- Marital status (including single status)
- Gender identity, gender expression
- Receipt of public assistance (in housing only)
- Record of offences (in employment only)
- Sex (including pregnancy and breastfeeding)
- Sexual orientation.

Notice how vaccinations aren't a protected ground?

 

[4thline]

And those who aren't willing to take a chance of 0.5 to 1% death rate should take the vaccine. Those who don’t then its their life and their choice that they have a 0.5-1% of dying from COVID.

There is no stats on Ontario page about hospitalizations.

There are for Canada, and it's more than the medical system can handle.

Society can't handle the full scale infection of the population. Those that don't understand that don't get to free load, because then the solution doesn't work.

This isn't about 1 person deciding what risk they are or are not willing to take. It's about scale.

 

[ULF_55]

So I can refuse service to someone based on gender, age, sexual preference and race? Good to know.

You realize dentists won't treat you now if you have COVID-19? Heck they won't treat you if you have a symptom.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

No, because it would violate the Ontario human rights code.

Which, for the record protects against discrimination for:
- Age
- Ancestry, colour, race
- Citizenship
- Ethnic origin
- Place of origin
- Creed
- Disability
- Family status
- Marital status (including single status)
- Gender identity, gender expression
- Receipt of public assistance (in housing only)
- Record of offences (in employment only)
- Sex (including pregnancy and breastfeeding)
- Sexual orientation.

Notice how vaccinations aren't a protected ground?

Your *exact* words: "You'd be mistaken. The Charter only has to do with the relationship between you and the government.

Interaction between citizens and private businesses is enforced through provincial and federal human rights legislation"

 

[Pink Mist]

Your *exact* words: "You'd be mistaken. The Charter only has to do with the relationship between you and the government.

Interaction between citizens and private businesses is enforced through provincial and federal human rights legislation"

Yes, good job quoting. What's your point?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You realize dentists won't treat you now if you have COVID-19? Heck they won't treat you if you have a symptom.

Who said otherwise? I wouldn't serve someone that has Covid either. But what does that have to do with whether I have a vaccination passport or not?

Ironically though, my dentist has upped his texting game recently constantly badgering me to come in (which tells me he's hurting) and I keep saying no because...you know, Covid.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yes, good job quoting. What's your point?

You're changing the goal posts. You said charter rights *only* have to do with your interactions with the government. Now you're a charter rights expert quoting what it *really* applies to. I.e., you're full of it.