Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[The Hanging Jowl]

You see deficit, I see thousands of lives saved

Circular argument but did you say this last year over diabetes, tuberculosis, pneumonia and heart disease? I mean, we both know you didn't but you should probably explain why or why not.

 

[Kiwi]

This is totally false about what happens in China if someone does not follow protocol with the earlier lock downs.

What would happen is the offender would be sent to one of those quarantine hotels.

There was a story from Australia how people were forced into those quarantine hotels and not allowed to leave.

Confinement of people due to Covid-19 happens in your area of the world.

The Aussie and New Zealand governments learned those methods from the Chinese.

They were welding people into they're homes early on and "disappeared" the whistle blower that informed the world what was happening in Wuhan

They also have gulags for dissidents and religious minorities

I'm no fan of the New Zealand or Australian governments and they're blatant disregard of civil liberties but you can **** right off with this piece of mental gymnastics

 

[Pink Mist]

Circular argument but did you say this last year over diabetes, tuberculosis, pneumonia and heart disease? I mean, we both know you didn't but you should probably explain why or why not.

Did I say it? No. But I don't have issue that they spend millions preventing and helping people suffering with those illnesses annually.

 

[Polaris1010]

there was no forcing, that was the rules if you wanted to travel to or return to Australia you had to spend 14 days in a hotel at your own expense. They came and did COVID tests on day 1, day 10 and day 14 if all were negative on day 15 you could leave.

If someone returns to Canada from aboard, then at the airport that person is told to go self-isolate for 14 days, promise, hope to die, stick a needle in your eye, that kind of promise as far as I know.

Haha!

The only quarantine hotels in Toronto are solely for the homeless.

No joke.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Did I say it? No. But I don't have issue that they spend millions preventing and helping people suffering with those illnesses annually.

You're right. We spend millions annually for those diseases. We've spent hundreds of billions on covid so far. What we're doing is completely unprecedented.

 

[Polaris1010]

They were welding people into they're homes early on and "disappeared" the whistle blower that informed the world what was happening in Wuhan

They also have gulags for dissidents and religious minorities

I'm no fan of the New Zealand or Australian governments and they're blatant disregard of civil liberties but you can **** right off with this piece of mental gymnastics

You too buddy.

 

[Pink Mist]

You're right. We spend millions annually for those diseases. We've spent hundreds of billions on covid so far. What we're doing is completely unprecedented.

Not really unprecedented. We've done the same during the world wars.

 

[HolyCrap]

Not really unprecedented. We've done the same during the world wars.

Did you just compare this virus to world wars? Spending massive amounts of money and energy to fight a freaking world war compared to fighting a virus that affects the elderly and immune compromised may be the most naive and incompetent statement I’ve ever read.

 

[Pink Mist]

Did you just compare this virus to world wars?

In terms that were running deficits similar to them, yes. In terms of impact this virus has also killed more Canadians annually (already over 12,000 dead) than the 2nd world war did (about 9,000 killed per year of the war), before you start calling me insensitive.

 

[HolyCrap]

Thank god for the ignore function. It’s gotten a workout on this thread. Lol.

 

[justashadowof]

Did you just compare this virus to world wars?

The worldwide participation rate in actions against the pandemic are akin to the world wars. As far as I'm concerned, right now is the same climate of instability that led to the first world war. There was a great reset after that horrendous and pointless war where the power of most monarchies were taken away permanently in favour of the individual nation state. Now, the nation state is the target and the goal is some new form of monarchy.

 

[4thline]

But the house is still standing.

You're right, tornado and total destruction was a poor analogy. A better one would be that the house is still standing, but the water damage from putting out a fire that threatened to consume the whole thing is relatively severe.

It wasn't a terrible house. Hell it was actually pretty great, and well built. But over time some problems have arose as your lifestyle changed and the house got older. You've been facing certain issues for years. Your HVAC system and appliances are aging inefficient money pits that smell kind of funny. The granny flat in the basement is only 500sqft for both your parents and your inlaws. The workshop you rely on for income has insufficient drainage / sump capacity and is on the edge of catastrophic flooding year after year.

Would you not fix those issues when you had the chance? Or would you stubbornly refuse to take the opportunity born of a bad situation and rebuild/fix things exactly the way they were problems and all?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You're right, tornado and total destruction was a poor analogy. A better one would be that the house is still standing, but the water damage from putting out a fire that threatened to consume the whole thing is relatively severe.

It wasn't a terrible house. Hell it was actually pretty great, and well built. But over time some problems have arose as your lifestyle changed and the house got older. You've been facing certain issues for years. Your HVAC system and appliances are aging inefficient money pits that smell kind of funny. The granny flat in the basement is only 500sqft for both your parents and your inlaws. The workshop you rely on for income has insufficient drainage / sump capacity and is on the edge of catastrophic flooding year after year.

Would you not fix those issues when you had the chance? Or would you stubbornly refuse to take the opportunity born of a situation and rebuild/fix things exactly the way they were?

I reno'd my whole house over the last few years. Same house, just much nicer and cost a hell of a lot less than a rebuild. They're suggesting a rebuild. I'm all for a reno.

Edit: And I wouldn't have done the reno at all if I was in dire financial straights at the time.

 

[HolyCrap]

The worldwide participation rate in actions against the pandemic are akin to the world wars. As far as I'm concerned, right now is the same climate of instability that led to the first world war. There was a great reset after that horrendous and pointless war where the power of most monarchies were taken away permanently in favour of the individual nation state. Now, the nation state is the target and the goal is some new form of monarchy.

I find comparing the too ridiculous. WW2 was all hands on deck or your dead and your family. It was epic. This virus isn’t. In a world war you throw every resource at it. We’re still paying taxes because of world war 1. Comparing them is insulting tbh. Now if your saying it’s similar that there could be a large financial reset. That’s fine I agree. But saying the two are both similar in justification to spend money and effort is false

 

[Mickey Marner]

I find comparing the too ridiculous. WW2 was all hands on deck or your dead and your family. It was epic. This virus isn’t. Its. insulting tbh.

The population has also tripled since then and the average person who died in WW2 had their life cut short by ~50 years, rather than ~5.

 

[4thline]

I reno'd my whole house over the last few years. Same house, just much nicer and cost a hell of a lot less than a rebuild. They're suggesting a rebuild. I'm all for a reno.

Edit: And I wouldn't have done the reno at all if I was in dire financial straights at the time.

You don't have a choice of reno/not reno after a fire was put out. The only choice is to reno "as was" or make updates that you wanted anyway but couldn't/ wouldn't make happen without a catalyst event.

They're not suggesting a rebuild. That's what I'm saying. That "Build Back Better" in a Canadian context is simply acknowledging that
A. damage has been done by this pandemic and we're going to have to spend/ take action to fix it
B. while fixing it we can address certain pre-existing issues

That it's some new world order rebuild was a fearmongering sensationalist political attack by one man while the leader of his party is suggesting the same reno just with different language and slightly different decor preferences.

 

[justashadowof]

I find comparing the too ridiculous. WW2 was all hands on deck or your dead and your family. It was epic. This virus isn’t. In a world war you throw every resource at it. We’re still paying taxes because of world war 1. Comparing them is insulting tbh. Now if your saying it’s similar that there could be a large financial reset. That’s fine I agree. But saying the two are both similar in justification to spend money and effort is false

I'm not comparing the current world to the second world war just the climate of the world BEFORE the first world war. Somehow millions of innocents were propagandized enough to be willingly sent abroad to be torn apart by the industrial war machine in a squabble between cousins. And yes they couldn't have introduced taxes without manufacturing an existential threat like a great war. Treating this current pandemic as an existential crisis is pure fiction. The disease isn't the existential threat, the cure is.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think we're still a ways away from that, but it's inevitable. Doing so would actually increase the value of cash beyond its face value and it would be quite lucrative to be in the possession of cash.

Yes and even Bitcoin is starting to gain a little traction too ... but it is a long way off as it is hard to get a grip on cash or Bitcoin increasing or decreasing in value but you are right it will go up ... there are too many people still using cash for side jobs like plumbing, electrical and HVAC which typically get done on weekends to get by because under our tax system there is just way too much tax paid here and da regular folk can't make it

 

[HolyCrap]

I'm not comparing the current world to the second world war just the climate of the world BEFORE the first world war. Somehow millions of innocents were propagandized enough to be willingly sent abroad to be torn apart by the industrial war machine in a squabble between cousins. And yes they couldn't have introduced taxes without manufacturing an existential threat like a great war. Treating this current pandemic as an existential crisis is pure fiction. The disease isn't the existential threat, the cure is.

I see where your going with this. No worries. I was responding to another poster who was arguing in another direction.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Exactly, these people need to stop living their lives in fear

You shouldn't project onto people that you don't even know on a personal level.

I live my life to the fullest without fear - even throughout the pandemic to the extent that is safe.

There is a big difference between fear and skepticism.

 

[Pink Mist]

I find comparing the too ridiculous. WW2 was all hands on deck or your dead and your family. It was epic. This virus isn’t. In a world war you throw every resource at it. We’re still paying taxes because of world war 1. Comparing them is insulting tbh. Now if your saying it’s similar that there could be a large financial reset. That’s fine I agree. But saying the two are both similar in justification to spend money and effort is false

You're right, this pandemic is even larger in scope since its an actual worldwide effort. And considering this virus, even with most countries best efforts, has already killed millions worldwide it absolutely is similar in justification. For example, last week COVID-19 was the #1 cause of death in the US last week, ahead of heart disease, tracheal, bronchus and lung cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. So we know what happens if it can go unchecked and out of control like in the US.

To say that it only kills the elderly or immunocompromised is insensitive and insulting by the way. They were people's friends and family; their lives had meaning to other people. Their lives deserve more than a shrug and "well the death rate is only ___%, that isn't that bad" or "they lived 80 years, so they had a long life". No, their deaths were avoidable and inexcusable since basic measures can prevent its spread, as we can see from other countries who have controlled the disease and have had very few deaths. The fact that there has been this many deaths from covid in Canada and abroad is a tragedy.

 

[Jojalu]

Maybe the "Galactic Federation" will have the answers!

Lol. What an odd year

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You don't have a choice of reno/not reno after a fire was put out. The only choice is to reno "as was" or make updates that you wanted anyway but couldn't/ wouldn't make happen without a catalyst event.

They're not suggesting a rebuild. That's what I'm saying. That "Build Back Better" in a Canadian context is simply acknowledging that
A. damage has been done by this pandemic and we're going to have to spend/ take action to fix it
B. while fixing it we can address certain pre-existing issues

That it's some new world order rebuild was a fearmongering sensationalist political attack by one man while the leader of his party is suggesting the same reno just with different language and slightly different decor preferences.

I guess that's the difference. I don't think the house has burned down at all. I think the house was built with the most solid and time tested construction methods mankind has ever devised creating the best environment families have ever enjoyed and at most it needs a refresh. But we've taken a huge second mortgage against the property. That would be the worst time to tear it down and rebuild (errr... "buld back") with experimental, unproven construction methods.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I guess that's the difference. I don't think the house has burned down at all. I think the house was built with the most solid and time tested construction methods mankind has ever devised creating the best environment families have ever enjoyed and at most it needs a refresh. But we've taken a huge second mortgage against the property. That would be the worst time to tear it down and rebuild (errr... "buld back") with experimental, unproven construction methods.

This whole "Build back better" campaign sounds all nice and comfy...except the way we are heading is to let the big corps get even bigger and make the disparity between the rich and poor even worse.

I can't get my products to customers in the USA because the USPS decided to give Walmart the same sweet deal they gave to Amazon. So, they prioritize the big corps packages while small guys like me suffer from customers emailing and calling about the delay in their shipments.

People nowadays are totally confused about who the bad guys are. All a big corp has to do is put a black box on their website about BLM and make a pittance donation and they are off the hook. This makes me sick. Instead...how about having a jobs program in the inner cities or something that is tangible for people. This lip service they do gives them a pass to keep our jobs over seas and make bigger profits. And yet you have people marching in the streets saying Amazon and Nike are great companies because they care...do they really or is it just good PR?

 

[justashadowof]

Maybe the "Galactic Federation" will have the answers!

Lol. What an odd year

Hmmmmm.... a common global concern..... that doesn't sound dodgy at all. The G.F. just need our cooperation while they finish their cross Milky Way express route. The specifics of the construction will be posted for public viewing at their local office.