Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part IX- Now Featuring More Lockdowns

[Nineteen67]

They can't but their have been a thousand stories over the years where someone couldn't get life saving treatment because, for instance, OHIP said it was too expensive to cover. How can they ethically ever make that argument again?

Wait, what?

 

[stealth1]

Thousands of workers got COVID-19 on the job. But the Ministry of Labour has fined just one employer

so you can read the article
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

More than 7,600 workers have contracted COVID-19 on the job, prompting thousands of workplace safety inspections across the province. But since the start of the pandemic, the Ministry of Labour has issued just two fines — one of them to a worker.
Ministry inspectors have conducted over 31,500 field visits checking for pandemic precautions. They issued about the same number of health and safety orders, which identify workplace violations and require employers to address them.
But only one employer has faced any kind of financial penalty for breaking workplace safety laws​

I know it says majority of cases are coming from the manufacturing industry but you can't lock them down as you need a lot of that to keep the supply chain going. I know those people that work at the warehouses will bring it home. If they keep the amount of people out and about low the odds of you contracting Covid from those people are low.

Again so many are so focused on "measures" and lockdowns when we need to look at the population as whole for the biggest reason for the spread. For any virus to spread it needs people. Yes cases would have gone up now as more people are indoors due to the weather. It probably wouldn't have gotten this high had people kept limiting how much time they were out and about.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Wait, what?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking.

 

[Sens]

I know it says majority of cases are coming from the manufacturing industry but you can't lock them down as you need a lot of that to keep the supply chain going. I know those people that work at the warehouses will bring it home. If they keep the amount of people out and about low the odds of you contracting Covid from those people are low.

Again so many are so focused on "measures" and lockdowns when we need to look at the population as whole for the biggest reason for the spread. For any virus to spread it needs people. Yes cases would have gone up now as more people are indoors due to the weather. It probably wouldn't have gotten this high had people kept limiting how much time they were out and about.

those workers bring it home to the 20 person homes

And those homes spread it as everyone works factory/minimum wage jobs to afford the house

 

[stealth1]

Been saying it all along. I don't mind the masks and other extra precautions if that's what it takes though. What upsets me is that fact there is still no plan to fix LTC centres or make rapid testing readily available. Our leaders are failing us in epic proportions at all levels and across all parties. Fix LTCs and make rapid testing available and our world goes back to normal.

They have been fixing LTCs by limiting who can visit. Its not from visitors on why the cases are so high. IMO the only way you fix LTCs is the people that work there can't have a life outside of work. Cause anytime a person who goes out in public has a chance to get Covid. All it takes is one person to bring into the home and it spreads quickly.

A rapid test would help things but we also need businesses to help too. My hope would be they pass something to make every business offer some sick days. It would go a long way in helping things now and in the future. It doesn't help when employees are sick but instead of staying home they go to work cause they can't afford to stay home

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

They have been fixing LTCs by limiting who can visit. Its not from visitors on why the cases are so high. IMO the only way you fix LTCs is the people that work there can't have a life outside of work. Cause anytime a person who goes out in public has a chance to get Covid. All it takes is one person to bring into the home and it spreads quickly.

A rapid test would help things but we also need businesses to help too. My hope would be they pass something to make every business offer some sick days. It would go a long way in helping things now and in the future. It doesn't help when employees are sick but instead of staying home they go to work cause they can't afford to stay home

Why do you dismiss rapid testing so easily? There are saliva tests that give results in 15 minutes. Nobody goes into a LTC centre without a clear test. Each and every time. Workers and visitors.

And no, they haven't fixed LTC centres at all. There are new outbreaks every day.

 

[stealth1]

those workers bring it home to the 20 person homes

And those homes spread it as everyone works factory/minimum wage jobs to afford the house

I agree but what is your answer to fix that? If your point is to justify why every business should then that's not the answer either.

We all don't want lockdowns and it hurts to see so many out of work and businesses closed. Had people stopped lining up to get into malls and to eat constantly we would be in much better shape. The spread will always come back to people's actions.

 

[Sens]

I agree but what is your answer to fix that? If your point is to justify why every business should then that's not the answer either.

We all don't want lockdowns and it hurts to see so many out of work and businesses closed. Had people stopped lining up to get into malls and to eat constantly we would be in much better shape. The spread will always come back to people's actions.

Amazon should have 20% workforce and only be doing essentials

we are all in this together right?

 

[stealth1]

Why do you dismiss rapid testing so easily? There are saliva tests that give results in 15 minutes. Nobody goes into a LTC centre without a clear test. Each and every time. Workers and visitors.

And no, they haven't fixed LTC centres at all. There are new outbreaks every day.

Yes there are outbreaks everyday. The only way that happens is for somebody outside of the home to bring it in. They have limited access to help with that. The only way you completely stop the outbreaks is to either make the workers live in the home or they aren't allowed to have a life outside of work.

I didn't dismiss the rapid testing. It would help but there has been times where people still went to work after testing positive as they had not sick time to stay home. I'm just saying there has to be better systems in place for those who trust positive and have to stay home for 2 weeks.

 

[Sens]

Covid forever
London Put in Emergency Lockdown as U.K. Fights New Strain

 

[stealth1]

Amazon should have 20% workforce and only be doing essentials

we are all in this together right?

No we aren't all in this together. We haven't been from day one. I am just as guilty and could have done some things better. In the end if we truly cared about each other and wanted to be all in this together we as a population would limit our social interactions and kept limiting gatherings. Back in March people were willing to do just that but as soon as they started to open the economy people stopped doing all of that.

 

[stealth1]

Covid forever
London Put in Emergency Lockdown as U.K. Fights New Strain

Hopefully with the vaccine available we will get back to normal. The vaccine will help in how severe Covid is if you do get it and will help keep hospitalizations low.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yes there are outbreaks everyday. The only way that happens is for somebody outside of the home to bring it in. They have limited access to help with that. The only way you completely stop the outbreaks is to either make the workers live in the home or they aren't allowed to have a life outside of work.

I didn't dismiss the rapid testing. It would help but there has been times where people still went to work after testing positive as they had not sick time to stay home. I'm just saying there has to be better systems in place for those who trust positive and have to stay home for 2 weeks.

I feel like you don't even read what people are saying. I'm saying no one goes into an LTC centre without passing a rapid test at the door. It can be done. It can especially be done with a small fraction of the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent. This literally fixes everything.

 

[stealth1]

I feel like you don't even read what people are saying. I'm saying no one goes into an LTC centre without passing a rapid test at the door. It can be done. It can especially be done with a small fraction of the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent. This literally fixes everything.

I believe you but then how come outbreaks still happen? If the rapid tests work so well then outbreaks shouldn't be happening.

"Everything You Need To Know About Rapid COVID-19 Tests - Chatelaine" Everything You Need To Know About Rapid COVID-19 Tests - Chatelaine

While rapid tests work they don't work well in picking up asymptomatic people. Going by that is probably why outbreaks happen in homes. Rapid tests work best when you have symptoms. Its far from a game changer.

 

[Confucius]

Why do you dismiss rapid testing so easily? There are saliva tests that give results in 15 minutes. Nobody goes into a LTC centre without a clear test. Each and every time. Workers and visitors.

And no, they haven't fixed LTC centres at all. There are new outbreaks every day.

Its in the air that we breathe. Ever see a piece of dust in a ray of sunlight? floats around in a room forever. Virus is what a million times smaller, outside in the wind. We should be social distancing a mile apart. Even that may not be far enough.

 

[stealth1]

Its in the air that we breathe. Ever see a piece of dust in a ray of sunlight? floats around in a room forever. Virus is what a million times smaller, outside in the wind. We should be social distancing a mile apart. Even that may not be far enough.

Its why they keep telling us to limit social interactions as much as possible. Had people continued to do that from the beginning we wouldn't be talking about lockdowns again. Instead we would be learning to live with the virus.

 

[Sens]

Its why they keep telling us to limit social interactions as much as possible. Had people continued to do that from the beginning we wouldn't be talking about lockdowns again. Instead we would be learning to live with the virus.

go look at the ttc
People need to go to work


lockdowns will solve nothing

 

[Confucius]

Its why they keep telling us to limit social interactions as much as possible. Had people continued to do that from the beginning we wouldn't be talking about lockdowns again. Instead we would be learning to live with the virus.

I'm sure there are plenty of businesses that fail because on paper their plan looked good. In practice, it isn't feasible. Similar to if we studied every spare minute we had we would be more knowledgeable, bettering ourselves and our community. Yet very very few do it.

 

[Sens]

Not good

Ontario labs are running out of supplies and testing machines have begun breaking down

the 80K backlog is going to grow uncontrollably making testing pointless

 

[stealth1]

go look at the ttc
People need to go to work


lockdowns will solve nothing

They will solve things. Less people working as businesses will be closed should mean less people out and about. To get cases down there has to be less social interactions.

What is it that is so hard to understand that the more people limit social interactions the lower the cases. For some reason people have gone back to their old habits of shopping multiple times a week and having gatherings again.

 

[stealth1]

I'm sure there are plenty of businesses that fail because on paper their plan looked good. In practice, it isn't feasible. Similar to if we studied every spare minute we had we would be more knowledgeable, bettering ourselves and our community. Yet very very few do it.

I agree and it's why they have had to put in restrictions cause people can't do it voluntarily

 

[stealth1]

Not good

Ontario labs are running out of supplies and testing machines have begun breaking down

the 80K backlog is going to grow uncontrollably making testing pointless

That's just going to make things that much worse. If the testing stops or gets really backlogged its going to make the spread that much worse.

 

[Jojalu]

Further, how do those ICU numbers that you posted justify restricting people, particularly those who are young and healthy, from their right to earn a living?

This pandemic is mostly affecting LTC homes, with about 85% of COVID deaths in Ontario related to them. I don’t have the stats regarding the percentage of hospitalizations related to LTC’s, but I’m assuming it’s around there. With this largely being a LTC problem, we can focus on that problem and distributing vaccines to the most vulnerable. There is no rhyme or reason for lockdowns for the entire population. We need to address hospitalizations and deaths, not cases.

Hospitalizations are more across the board with all ages. LTC patients normally don't get moved or transferred to the hospital.

But it is around 70% of all deaths from LTC, with another 10-15% coming from elderly not in LTC.

My wife just spent the last 10 days in the hospital having a tumour removed from her spine. You are allowed a pre-op, post-op, and then every 4 days visit.

For those who don't think rhe hospital workers working ICU'S are not stressed, you are way off.

Hospitals have dramitically changef the way they operate, and the Covid wings are full. The rest of the hospital looks quiet because they get people in and out quickly right now.

Those working in Covid wing, can't work in the rest of the hospital and vice versa.

The emergency room is quiet( which is good) because people have stopped using it as a doctor's office and actually go when it is an emergency.

 

[cbbb25]

I feel like you don't even read what people are saying. I'm saying no one goes into an LTC centre without passing a rapid test at the door. It can be done. It can especially be done with a small fraction of the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent. This literally fixes everything.

Im confused to why Canada and Canadians seem reluctant to embrace rapid tests and the antibodies tests to see if we've had it. Why not just roll it out to shoppers and wal-mart ect.. The US seems to embrace it and I find it weird were cool with random vaccines but not rapid tests and antibodies tests.

Im for vaccine but the government red tape on some things and not on others is weird.

 

[Sens]

That's just going to make things that much worse. If the testing stops or gets really backlogged its going to make the spread that much worse.

what’s opened now that will be closed?
Office workers and gyms... aside from that what else?