Bomber0104
Registered User
Goalies are fine, coaching is fine, GM is fine, losing in the first round 6 years in a row is fine..
For some, everything is always fine and none of it warrants criticism.
Combined Goalie Discussion thread
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Goalies are fine, coaching is fine, GM is fine, losing in the first round 6 years in a row is fine..
For some, everything is always fine and none of it warrants criticism.
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Campbell gave us months of Vezina caliber goaltending at the start of the season and was voted to the All-Star game before his game cratered in the winter time and he was adequate in the playoffs but not a difference maker... Like I said, I'm okay moving on from him for a variety of reasons...
If you're going to throw away Campbell's good work, you have to ask yourself 2 questions. One, is Murray or Samsonov likely to be playing at a level where they're at the All-Star Game next year?
And Two, if Campbell was so bad going into the trade deadline, wouldn't getting a league average goalie at the deadline have been enough to win the first round? And if the only missing piece to our championship team was a league average goalie, where was Dubas on deadline day?
Leaf Fans
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Stephen
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Isn’t management’s interpretation and use of stats a bigger issue at the end of the day?
Was someone looking at all those stats and green lighting the playoff run with Campbell knowing what you know? Aren’t we an analytics team? All we needed was an average goalie and management couldn’t find one?
Again, I’m okay with moving on from Campbell if someone wants to make the point that we need a more consistent upgrade in net. But cutting him to pieces and ignoring the good work he did actually puts management’s decision to roll with him in a worse light. I don’t think that’s your intention.
Is the All Star game the goal? Feels like that well deserved accomplishment and final season numbers speaks more about his fall during 2023 and playoffs.
hamzarocks
Registered User
The leafs have proven to be an elite team with ~.910 goaltending for a few seasons now
They have also proven that no matter how well our starter compares to the other teams goalie over the course of the series, that they can't close out and win a series (failed with Freddy in 19,20 and Campbell 21, 22)
Murray has the highest potential to be a guy who overcomes a lack of offense in a do or die game 7 and shut the door. I'm not hopeful he will be able to, but I can see why Dubas went after him with his pedigree
I do think the big 4 simply have to take over in a do or die game and get things done. They'll have to close out the opposition and our goaltending will be solid enough to hang on if we score early and get a few goals in game 7
They have also proven that no matter how well our starter compares to the other teams goalie over the course of the series, that they can't close out and win a series (failed with Freddy in 19,20 and Campbell 21, 22)
Murray has the highest potential to be a guy who overcomes a lack of offense in a do or die game 7 and shut the door. I'm not hopeful he will be able to, but I can see why Dubas went after him with his pedigree
I do think the big 4 simply have to take over in a do or die game and get things done. They'll have to close out the opposition and our goaltending will be solid enough to hang on if we score early and get a few goals in game 7
Would it make you happier if every single poster here was as negative about everything leafs here? Tho I'm sure some posters here are fake leaf fans (trolls) that just like to get their jollies off people here who only have criticism and doom mentality.
Also, even the biggest homers here are just as dissapointed as you about the first round exits... They just don't feel the need to play the "end of the world card" which gets tired to read over and over again.
New season, new hope. Let's cheer our boys on.
Go leafs go
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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All Star Game is more of a sign post showing where Campbell’s game was at before his game declined. Part of the body of work showing to management they could plausibly trust him on a playoff run that wouldn’t show up when looking at season ending stats.
Because his season was so up and down, it just makes the aggregate statistical comparison more difficult. But it’s difficult to just pretend his season peaks didn’t happen because those helped establish the teams strong regular season foundation.
Did anyone suggest he was poor in the early season? Or did they comment on the overall season with post deadline info?
Stephen
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Stephen
Moderator
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Anybody who is talking about Campbell's overall season stats to establish a baseline to Murray and Samsonov is is throwing out Campbell's early season peaks.
deprw
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- Mar 7, 2010
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Can agree. Still it's have been one year, since we let Andersen walk and we had Campbell in place. Sparks didn't pan out and when Scott and Woll got into injury trouble our pipeline went dry. We can pin point bad goalie department on Dubas and it's purely on his shoulders.
Still after Andersen walked and we had good reason for it, we haven't seen any real solutions traded or signed by any other team. We can speculate about trading for Gibson or going after Hellebyuck, but there haven't been clear star goalie on the move this last two summers.
In overall it's easy to say that we should have handled this better, but we had some continuity plan in place after Andersen. Mrazek was mistake and now we are in wait and see mode here. It would be easier to plame Dubas, if there really was better goalie than Campbell available last summer.
I'm not going to predict, which goalie is best from this summer's crop. We'll wait and see, since there is nothing more we can do.
Are you sitting on a boat of "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." like you usually rant here or have you changed your mind?
Just like last week, it seems like youre jumping to conclusions rather than reading the basics of whats there?
And in case youre confused on my stance - Soupy was great for the first half of the year. Deserved his appearance and i wish it continued. He struggled during the second half and into the playoffs. Slightly below average year on the whole for me.
hotpaws
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- Nov 21, 2009
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So if Bomber endlessly crapped on Campbell that would make him a positive poster ?
Goes both ways with everyone not just him. Crap on whoever,. At this point tho it's just a repeat of everything. I get this is a message board and it's made to discuss, but maybe leafs board should just take a 5min recharge for the season ;-)
Also the crapping is partly due to making a point about crapping on what we just got .
Don't have anything against Campbell, but sorta glad we didn't lock him in for 5 years at 5 mil.
Murray and Samsonite* won't be as bad as some making them out to be with what we had last year.
*Little dumb and dumber humour to lighten things up
Racer88
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OptimusReim
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- Jul 13, 2011
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The worse goalie tandem in the NHL.
Hoping to be proven wrong, but if not, Dubas needs to be fired and all his minions can leave with him.
Hoping to be proven wrong, but if not, Dubas needs to be fired and all his minions can leave with him.
Thats stats and even sports in general. At the end of the day the only thing concete is playoff wins. The question is how to get them and the route there is largely subjective
leafsfan5
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- Jun 14, 2014
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At the end of the day, it is what it is. I'm excited to see how our goalies perform
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Racer88
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Stephen
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I'm not keeping close track of your personal opinions. But like I've been saying to the general view point you're describing, the "Campbell is below average" line of thinking is used to imply a smooth transition to Murray/Samsonov. Therefore, "the Leafs won't skip a beat and may have even upgraded." This may very well pan out if we're lucky, but it isn't the vote of confidence on management that you think it is.
Stephen
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I find it interesting how stats may not be useful even for an analytics heavy management group. Like if the Excel file is telling you Campbell is taking on water, a below average goalie and you see this data piling up over a significant portion of the season, there's still a human factor where the Leafs won't pull the trigger at the trade deadline because they might be looking back at early season play.
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