Combined Goalie Discussion thread

[ACC1224]

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If were using gritty screenshots for our poorly backed arguments, here's my contribution.

Top goalie has 0 1st round wins, bottom goalie has 2 Cups and would have had a Conn Smythe if it wasn't for a legendary performance by a top 10 player of all time. Not to mention 10 rounds won as the starting goalie.

Equally pointless, IMO.

 

[Razz]

Comparing goalie stats on different teams is a fool's errand. Few fans truly understand the Goaltending position beyond staring at a spreadsheet and watching highlights. The best information we have to go on is Murray's drive to return to form with 2 cups on his resume and Samsonov's 1st round pedigree to make it as a starter as he begins his prime years.

Not a bad backdrop for our goaltending, in my honest opinion. We had hoped Campbell's drive for a big contract would have carried us, and it almost did before he had a mental collapse, which ended any possibility of earning a long-term deal in Toronto.

 

[Leaf Fans]

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If were using gritty screenshots for our poorly backed arguments, here's my contribution.

Top goalie has 0 1st round wins, bottom goalie has 2 Cups and would have had a Conn Smythe if it wasn't for a legendary performance by a top 10 player of all time. Not to mention 10 rounds won as the starting goalie.

Playoff stats and winning rounds! Why is that relevant?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Comparing goalie stats on different teams is a fool's errand. Few fans truly understand the Goaltending position beyond staring at a spreadsheet and watching highlights. The best information we have to go on is Murray's drive to return to form with 2 cups on his resume and Samsonov's 1st round pedigree to make it as a starter as he begins his prime years.

Not a bad backdrop for our goaltending, in my honest opinion. We had hoped Campbell's drive for a big contract would have carried us, and it almost did before he had a mental collapse, which ended any possibility of earning a long-term deal in Toronto.

I think I agree, but GSAA does help paint a slightly more relevant picture.

Overall, the Leafs are a much better defensive team than the Sens were for the last two years, so we won't know until the new guys have had some reps behind the team.

I prefer to be hopeful. I lived in the Soo when Murray was there, and he was an absolute warrior, very competitive. I love that attitude.

 

[Mess]

We received the 24th best goaltending last year. That's not league average goaltending.

Yes I know, but that is mainly because of the Mrazek signing who finished with a brutal .888 in 20 games played.

Leafs own GM sabotaged the Leafs with his own poor UFA signing.

Lets all hope that is not the case again this season with the new guys.

&

So Leaf Nation has to trust the GM that got it wrong with Campbell and Mrazek by delivering below league average, to get it right this time, but both new guys are coming in ICE COLD well below league average Save %.

So major improvements will be required just to get UP to average league goaltending, with at starting point not much above Mrazek's SV%.

That's the scary part with this high risk reclamation projects experiment that should be making all Leaf Nation fans nervous. IMO

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes I know, but that is mainly because of the Mrazek signing who finished with a brutal .888 in 20 games played.

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Leafs own GM sabotaged the Leafs with his own poor UFA signing.

Lets all hope that is not the case again this season with the new guys.

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So Leaf Nation has to trust the GM that got it wrong with Campbell and Mrazek by delivering below league average, to get it right this time, but both new guys are coming in ICE COLD well below league average Save %. So major improvements will be required just to get UP to average league goaltending.

That's the scary part with this high risk reclamation projects experiment that should be making all Leaf Nation fans nervous. IMO

So, if we rank the goalies by playoff rounds won What is the comparison.

 

[ACC1224]

I think I agree, but GSAA does help paint a slightly more relevant picture.

Overall, the Leafs are a much better defensive team than the Sens were for the last two years, so we won't know until the new guys have had some reps behind the team.

I prefer to be hopeful. I lived in the Soo when Murray was there, and he was an absolute warrior, very competitive. I love that attitude.

That's correct.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes I know

Seems you didn't, since you just incorrectly claimed that we got league average goaltending, when we actually received well below league average goaltending.

but that is mainly because of the Mrazek signing

Mrazek played less than a quarter of our games. It was because of more than just that.

Leafs own GM sabotaged the Leafs with his own poor UFA signing.

A goalie having a bad season =/= a GM sabotaging his team.

both new guys are coming in ICE COLD well below league average Save %.

That's not true. Murray performed above average last season. Based on how each goalie performed last season, Murray/Samsonov would have actually given us better goaltending results than Campbell/Mrazek did.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs own GM sabotaged the Leafs with his own poor UFA signing.

'Signings'

Seems to be a reoccurring theme, hopefully this is the year he figured it out.
Safe to say confidence is at an all time low with this duo brought in.
Here's to hoping we are all pleasantly surprised.

 

[Stephen]

View attachment 582892

View attachment 582893

If were using gritty screenshots for our poorly backed arguments, here's my contribution.

Top goalie has 0 1st round wins, bottom goalie has 2 Cups and would have had a Conn Smythe if it wasn't for a legendary performance by a top 10 player of all time. Not to mention 10 rounds won as the starting goalie.

Matt Murray didn’t win 10 rounds for Pittsburgh though. The 2017 cup required 9 Marc-Andre Fleury wins in the earlier rounds while Murray was out of commission.

 

[Stephen]

Seems you didn't, since you just incorrectly claimed that we got league average goaltending, when we actually received well below league average goaltending.

Mrazek played less than a quarter of our games. It was because of more than just that.

A goalie having a bad season =/= a GM sabotaging his team.

That's not true. Murray performed above average last season. Based on how each goalie performed last season, Murray/Samsonov would have actually given us better goaltending results than Campbell/Mrazek did.

The Leafs received inconsistent goaltending from Campbell throughout the year which varied from Vezina worthy, All-Star goaltending for long stretches at the start of the season to well below average goaltending during the winter, to an average finish. You can make an argument that the trough was well below average goaltending but overall it was alright.

 

[Mess]

Comparing goalie stats on different teams is a fool's errand. Few fans truly understand the Goaltending position beyond staring at a spreadsheet and watching highlights. The best information we have to go on is Murray's drive to return to form with 2 cups on his resume and Samsonov's 1st round pedigree to make it as a starter as he begins his prime years.

Not a bad backdrop for our goaltending, in my honest opinion. We had hoped Campbell's drive for a big contract would have carried us, and it almost did before he had a mental collapse, which ended any possibility of earning a long-term deal in Toronto.

I agree.

However that is likely what Ottawa thought when they acquired Murray coming off 3 struggling post Cup years with the Pens, that he would return to Cup form and worth the gamble.

Sadly they were forced to contract dump him with retention and added draft capital to undo that mistake.

Jack Campbell was drafted #11 overall in his draft class similarly to Samsonov going #22 overall in his.

Washington thought they drafted a 1st round pedigree and cut him loose as a non qualified RFA after 3 disappointing seasons and early playoff round one losses. You would have thought Washington could have traded him and gotten some assets in return for a former 1st round draft pick.

Well Ottawa and Washington loss is now Leafs gain,

 

[Oscar Peterson]

What is with all this endless circular goalie talk? Only thing we can do now is wait and see how these guys perform, we've seen the same stats and arguments posted back and forth for 2 months now. God we need the season to begin

 

[Nineteen67]

What is with all this endless circular goalie talk? Only thing we can do now is wait and see how these guys perform, we've seen the same stats and arguments posted back and forth for 2 months now. God we need the season to begin

Yep. It’s widely accepted that the goalie situation is a gamble and now it’s time to see if it works. The Leafs either have some playoff success or they fire the GM.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Yep. It’s widely accepted that the goalie situation is a gamble and now it’s time to see if it works. The Leafs either have some playoff success or they fire the GM.

Agreed...

 

[Bomber0104]

Comparing goalie stats on different teams is a fool's errand. Few fans truly understand the Goaltending position beyond staring at a spreadsheet and watching highlights.

What is with all this endless circular goalie talk? Only thing we can do now is wait and see how these guys perform, we've seen the same stats and arguments posted back and forth for 2 months now. God we need the season to begin

Basically my thoughts on this.

It'll take a bit of time but we'll eventually find out whether the Murray trade is another epic fail (similar to Dubas' Mrazek signing) or if we should have actually spent a bit of organizational assets and cap-space on a non-reclamation project goalie.

Wonder what Anton Forsberg would have cost us? He's been head-and-shoulders better than Murray playing in front of the same crap team..

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Basically my thoughts on this.

It'll take a bit of time but we'll eventually find out whether the Murray trade is another epic fail (similar to Dubas' Mrazek signing) or if we should have actually spent a bit of organizational assets and cap-space on a non-reclamation project goalie.

Wonder what Anton Forsberg would have cost us? He's been head-and-shoulders better than Murray playing in front of the same crap team..

Yup, or we will find out if Matt Murray actually is the answer we've been looking for in net. (Again not saying that this is what I'm expecting to happen. Just saying that if Murray shits the bed I think Dubas should be fired, but if he gives us what we need in net then he deserves to be commended)

 

[HolyCrap]

What is with all this endless circular goalie talk? Only thing we can do now is wait and see how these guys perform, we've seen the same stats and arguments posted back and forth for 2 months now. God we need the season to begin

Yup. I’m not super confident but that’s an accumulation of several issues. I’m just gonna keep fingers crossed watch an entertaining regular season. It’s all about the playoffs with this team now.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs received inconsistent goaltending from Campbell throughout the year which varied from Vezina worthy, All-Star goaltending for long stretches at the start of the season to well below average goaltending during the winter, to an average finish. You can make an argument that the trough was well below average goaltending but overall it was alright.

A win in Oct-Dec counts as much as one in Jan-April

Campbell started 2021 with a bang going 15-5-2 [ = .727 points % earned] (32 points of possible 44 points) , which included winning 9 of 11 starts in Nov.

His 2022 results wise actually went better 16-4-4 [ = .750 points % earned] (36 points on possible 48 points)

His sv% went down, but his winning/points % for the team went up. Campbell sv% saved the Leafs early with low run support and high sv%, but from Jan onwards his sv% dropped but Matthews and company was heating and run support increased, However as far as the team goes the winning % increased.

 

[KPower]

I’ll be shocked if this duo can provide league average goaltending.

 

[LeafEgo]

What is with all this endless circular goalie talk? Only thing we can do now is wait and see how these guys perform, we've seen the same stats and arguments posted back and forth for 2 months now. God we need the season to begin

I think we're starting to reach acceptance, it just took a bit of time to get through the five stages of leaf grief after the acquisition.

 

[Mess]

Yep. It’s widely accepted that the goalie situation is a gamble and now it’s time to see if it works. The Leafs either have some playoff success or they fire the GM.

Leafs knowingly downgraded their goaltending in an attempt to increase their playoff winning record.

Logically that is backasswards reasoning, as most would look to upgrade the goaltending position to get better results if its deemed the reason for the failure.

Its really a Win -Win situation as you suggest, as along as there is accountability for the results.
If the high risk reclamation goalie project works more playoff games fantastic !!, and if it doesn't thennew GM and Coach which is also fine from my perspective, as it helps easy the pain of another wasted season, knowing we'll be getting a long overdue upgrade in management,

I'm just glad its not my neck on the line , because if I was in this position, I would be really nervous taking on this much risk, as I would make goaltending my #1 priority not an afterthought.

My reasoning being, if you bring in stronger players and the experiment fails, then its on the players for under-performing, but if you bring in weaker players and it fails, then its on the GM the decision maker when accountability for the results is determined.

 

[Stephen]

I think the only approach that can be taken with this duo is just wait and see what we have as the season opens. They are Leafs today because of uneven recent history.

 

[Mess]

Leafs objective in 2022-23 is to get their team SV% to above average because its hard to be considered a serious Cup contender with below average goaltending stats.

So far Leafs GM has be flummoxed with goaltending decisions, however this next experiment will be very intriguing to watch play out.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Leafs knowingly downgraded their goaltending in an attempt to increase their playoff winning record.

Logically that is backasswards reasoning, as most would look to upgrade the goaltending position to get better results if its deemed the reason for the failure.

Its really a Win -Win situation as you suggest, as along as there is accountability for the results.
If the high risk reclamation goalie project works more playoff games fantastic !!, and if it doesn't thennew GM and Coach which is also fine from my perspective, as it helps easy the pain of another wasted season, knowing we'll be getting a long overdue upgrade in management,

I'm just glad its not my neck on the line , because if I was in this position, I would be really nervous taking on this much risk, as I would make goaltending my #1 priority not an afterthought.

My reasoning being, if you bring in stronger players and the experiment fails, then its on the players for under-performing, but if you bring in weaker players and it fails, then its on the GM the decision maker when accountability for the results is determined.

No, the Leafs have attempted to improve their goaltending, and win in the playoffs.