How s he left with no option? He acquired Murray before UFA started iirc
Combined Goalie Discussion thread
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thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
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I don't really know what caliber you can say was out there at the time that had the same potential 1-2 punch in net. So far it's working out well and I can't really think of anything better all things considered. It's totally a gamble but so far Dubas is looking pretty good on the tandem.
The talk at the time was Talbot, husso, Kuemper or making plays for guys like fluery Gibson etc
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
I still think that the Murray trade could have been better for us in terms of assets coming back (or more retention).
With that being said (and it's still early), I can't be happier with how the goaltenders have played. Lets hope for health for the both of them throghout the rest of the season.
It's hilarious that the OP has seemingly disappeared now that they're both playing well. So many posts and so many 'stats' early in the season and now nothing.
With that being said (and it's still early), I can't be happier with how the goaltenders have played. Lets hope for health for the both of them throghout the rest of the season.
It's hilarious that the OP has seemingly disappeared now that they're both playing well. So many posts and so many 'stats' early in the season and now nothing.
Isaac Nootin
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2017
- 7,882
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A quick look at how the big, discussed targets from last offseason are trending...
GSAx/60:
Samsonov: +0.790
Murray: +0.673
Georgiev: +0.497
Talbot: +0.386
Varlamov: +0.297
Kuemper: +0.274
Husso: -0.007
Fleury: -0.127
Gibson: -0.290
Comrie: -0.334
Campbell: -0.800
So far we've got the two best, plus an early 3rd and 7th round pick, for just under 6.5m combined. Not bad.
GSAx/60:
Samsonov: +0.790
Murray: +0.673
Georgiev: +0.497
Talbot: +0.386
Varlamov: +0.297
Kuemper: +0.274
Husso: -0.007
Fleury: -0.127
Gibson: -0.290
Comrie: -0.334
Campbell: -0.800
So far we've got the two best, plus an early 3rd and 7th round pick, for just under 6.5m combined. Not bad.
At this point I honestly feel bad for Campbell and worry about his mental state. Signing that contract and the pressure that comes with it combined with his performance and how he copied mentally don't seem like a healthy recipe
Yeah, he seemed like a nice guy that's really hard on himself, and it's sad to see him struggle like this. I don't wish anything bad of Campbell. It's unfortunate that we have this atmosphere around here that treats any departed player having mild success as a disaster, that just leads to fans cheering against their past players. I hope he finds his game... Unless we're facing him.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 43,456
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Please don't jinx it. It's the most Leafy fan thing to do. Get all worked up with the party hats and then...
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Nobody is "getting worked up with the party hats". We're discussing how goalies are doing so far in the goalie discussion thread.
How they perform moving forward has nothing to do with our discussion on here.
Nobody seemed to have trouble jumping to conclusions in the summer before any games were played.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,590
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Seems like a valid concern. Edmonton with their superstars, years of consecutive 1st overall picks etc., that might be one place where the pressure to win is maybe close to what it is in Toronto. He seems like a great guy, I really hope he turns it around over there but yeah, I hope he doesn't get completely mentally crushed over there.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 43,456
- 13,920
You're handing out celebratory paraphernalia for days. It's ok though, we're winning and just hope that keeps going and the secondary O needs to get to work. It's been a 5 man show so far.
I thought the issue of Sammy was more on positioning as he tended to flop around too much. That was before signing with the Leafs.
I think he will recover. Oilers are just being Oilers, they will put score their troubles.
I posted how all of the discussed goalies are doing so far, and then using terms like "trending" and "so far", I noted that we had done "not bad" thus far.
You have quite a weird definition of "handing out celebratory paraphernalia for days".
Surprisingly, we're sometimes allowed to discuss positive things on this forum as well.
This is best way for things to play out with 2 guys who both want da net .. lets hope neither gets injured .. to me it is still Murray in net once playoffs start .. proven Cup winner .. he calms things down late in games when team needs a save .. i have hope with this setup .. last 6 years I had no hope with either Soup or freddy
TheGreatOne11
Registered User
They've exceeded my expectations dramatically.
It was a gamble that paid off, but it was still a gamble, it just happened to work out.
One thing I was 100% wrong on was Campbell, I truly thought that guy had it in him, and he still might. But its December and my boy is floundering, I honestly feel bad because hes such a genuine person.
But I am very happy with both of them, Samsonov I honestly saw he could be a #1 and Washington didn't give him enough time, but Murray has been a revelation and I did not expect him to return to #1 status, I guess the reports of the Leafs fixing something in his positioning was correct? Lol
Either way I'm a happy man, it's still early but I mean, what are the chances both if them start sh*tting the bed?....
Why did i say that lol
It was a gamble that paid off, but it was still a gamble, it just happened to work out.
One thing I was 100% wrong on was Campbell, I truly thought that guy had it in him, and he still might. But its December and my boy is floundering, I honestly feel bad because hes such a genuine person.
But I am very happy with both of them, Samsonov I honestly saw he could be a #1 and Washington didn't give him enough time, but Murray has been a revelation and I did not expect him to return to #1 status, I guess the reports of the Leafs fixing something in his positioning was correct? Lol
Either way I'm a happy man, it's still early but I mean, what are the chances both if them start sh*tting the bed?....
Why did i say that lol
Yes that's what I remember the post about him were too.
We did that with him too but it didn't help his state of mind. He's being outperformed my skinner right now and his numbers are pretty bad. Not a good combination for him.
I hope he recovers too. It's just a game but when you're getting millions of dollars and the pressure that comes along with it, anxiety is natural
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,434
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Is there anyone on the market that wasn't a gamble?
Hell is there any goalie in the league that isn't a gamble season to season? Even Vasi and Shesterkin are suddenly looking very average right now. At least with Murray the gamble was that he either plays well or he's on LTIR and we can use that money elsewhere, a healthy Campbell that can't stop a beach ball is a gamble with much higher downside if you can't LTIR him.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Comparing goalies on different teams playing different systems is completely pointless.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,590
- 25,341
Yeah all this talk about how Murray and Sam were gambles really needs to die. And you're so right, not only was every goalie available a gamble, almost every goalie in the league is a gamble from year to year. Vasi is about the only exception but other than him ...
Not really. There are a handful of goalies in the league that you can reliably expect to be somewhere in the positives, but that's about it.
I posted this in another thread a couple days ago, but it's probably relevant here...
Top 15 goalies in GSAx from last year and where they place this year so far:
#1 Shesterkin -> 15th
#2 Vasilevsky -> 20th
#3 Andersen -> 62nd
#4 Bobrovsky -> 66th
#5 Kuemper -> 18th
#6 Saros -> 22nd
#7 Quick -> 58th
#8 Hellebuyck -> 4th
#9 Husso -> 44th
#10 Sorokin -> 1st
#11 Jarry -> 52nd
#12 Markstrom -> 39th
#13 Demko -> 72nd
#14 Comrie -> 61st
#15 Martin -> 34th
Of course that's not true, and that's actually a stat that looks at the goaltender's performance isolated from the performance of the rest of the team.
Dingdingding. Said it at the time. Campbell and Kuemper were risks to give term and in a different bracket.
Husso/Vanicek/Georgiev
-27 year old with 57 career games, whos numbers made acceptable by a 9 game stretch of godmode, no playoff track record
-26 year old career backup, no playoff track record
-26 year old career backup, no playoff track record
Sens Murray was only marginally worse than Georgiev and Vanicek's career numbers. Husso was a complete wildcard
We got Samsonov and Murray and recieved a 3rd and a 7th, giving us two kicks at the can in a comparable risk/reward tier (arguably higher reward with Sam's draft pedigree and those two shiny things on Murray's hand). The cost to hedge our bets with any pair of the other 3 instead:
Husso + Vanicek: 2nd+3rd+3rd +7th
Husso + Georgiev : 3rd+3rd+3rd+3rd+5th +7th
Vanicek+ Georgiev: 2nd+3rd+3rd+ 3rd+5th +7th
The fatlady is far from singing. A long way to know who the best two of the 5 options. But what we did allowed us to gain more with far far less draft capital spent.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Seeing how volatile goalies like Shesterkin and Markstrom have been after kicking ass last season makes what Vasi did from 2020-2022 all the more impressive. Guys like the aforementioned two and Hellebuyck and Andersen have good years and off years but during Tampa’s three straight finals runs with two wins Vasilevskiy was just money.
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