Combined Goalie Discussion thread

[Buds17]

Good to see both parts of the intended tandem seizing opportunity when it has arrived. Somewhat unfortunate perhaps is that opportunity has thus far come for each with the other goalie sidelined.

 

[fancy lad]

IMO, this is the best our Leaf net has looked in quite some time… regardless of how awesome Jack played at times.

I agree. Plus matt Murray definitely has the most proven track record (than what we’ve gotten used to) and that has to count for something.

 

[The Podium]

NHL player injury timelines (2000/01 to 2022/23)

Notes There will be inconsistency between my numbers and “official” team man-games lost (MGL) figures due to teams' d...

nhlinjuryviz.blogspot.com

Cool visual of player injury histories, feel like it’s relevant for this thread

 

[Martin Skoula]

There's something nice about only having to worry about being beaten by good shots from good shooters instead of worrying every time a 3rd liner is looking to dump the puck on net for a change.

 

[TMLAM34]

I don't remember him looking this big in Pittsburgh but he's almost like a J-S Giguere out there these days.

His glove hand always looks like it's unnaturally rotated, like up and in instead of out.

He does remind me a little like Giguere. If Murray can continue his play, we got ourselves a pretty good goalie.

 

[Nineteen67]

Let's not forget what happened to Soup in the 2nd half of the season last year. The tandem is looking good but we need to find out if one or both both can do it over a full season.

I think he’ll be fine in the regular season most nights. The Leafs might be concerned with the rebounds and scrambling if Murray plays In the playoffs when players are focussed on the front of the net.

 

[Sypher04]

Wasn’t Petruzzelli beyond terrible in preseason?

That’s not really fair. Didn’t he play like 20-40 mins max? And in one of the very first preseason games?

 

[Sypher04]

I hate to say it, because at points Kallgren has looked solid, and he is playing over his head against most our competition. Not to lay all our struggles at his feet, because that’s clearly not fair, and we didn’t support him well at times either, but it says something that our win rate with Murray/Samsonov in net is .750, and with Kallgren is .286

Not sure what really can done though at this moment. You’d love to upgrade, but most options would require waivers and we’d just lose anyone we acquire. Teams are not exactly lining up trade quality, young goaltenders with waiver exemption.

 

[LeafChief]

Didn't see anyone bump this to the front page yet so just bumping it in case any of you wanted to talk about the Leafs goaltending.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Dubas’ reworking of our goaltending so far paying off. Both goalies have looked good in the majority of their games. Main concern is still health though. Hopefully we play the majority of our remaining games with both Murray and Samsonov in net or on the bench.

 

[GoonieFace]

Just wondering if the same people praising Dubas for Murray now, were also praising the Mrazek signing. Early signs say this may work out, but it was still a huge shot in the dark to begin with

 

[TMLAM34]

Just wondering if the same people praising Dubas for Murray now, were also praising the Mrazek signing. Early signs say this may work out, but it was still a huge shot in the dark to begin with

Still a better gamble than Mrazek ever was. Murray at least has Stanley CupS on his resume.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes. This was always my issue with the Murray/Samsanov signings. They are massive question marks at best, and that's no way to run a club with young superstars like Matthews/Marner/Nylander in their primes. Look how bad it's going in Edmonton(same setup). I have my fingers crossed that it works out differently for us.

Didn't work out for the Canes last year.
Hasn't looked good for the Oilers this year.
Reimer still being Reimer.
Vasilevskiy a touch better than Reimer ... in wins only.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Goaltending from our top 2 has been a very pleasant surprise. Hopefully they can stay healthy the rest of the way.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes. This was always my issue with the Murray/Samsanov signings. They are massive question marks at best, and that's no way to run a club with young superstars like Matthews/Marner/Nylander in their primes. Look how bad it's going in Edmonton(same setup). I have my fingers crossed that it works out differently for us.

Re-signing Campbell would have fallen in that category as well.

Husso and Georgiev look like good transfers, but they also were gambles.

Kuemper not exactly shining brightly.

 

[ULF_55]

This is all true. And this is why we should have been using some of our higher draft picks YEARS ago, to draft & develop some serious Goalie talent that we could have graduated by now. We trade 2nd rounders like candy but surely we could've used a few over the last 8 years to get some pedigree in nets in the system? Hedge our bets? My issue is with not having any Goalie plan in place and with having to rely on all the question marks you mention.



I'd certainly take Vasilevsky on my team.

For goalies, you have to go back to before Dubas.
Goalies usually take several years before the NHL ready.
They have drafted goalies the last 3 drafts, and 6 out of 7 drafts they have selected a goalie.
Woll and Scott should be due now, but injuries.

 

[ToDavid]

Yes. This was always my issue with the Murray/Samsanov signings. They are massive question marks at best, and that's no way to run a club with young superstars like Matthews/Marner/Nylander in their primes. Look how bad it's going in Edmonton(same setup). I have my fingers crossed that it works out differently for us.

I think the counter argument would be that all goalies are a bit of a question mark. Look at how many goalies bounce between good and bad every year. How many big goalie trades and signings have been home runs?

The best bets seem to have been homegrown talent or these types of middle market project guys.

Yes Murray’s recent injuries are an added risk. On the other hand, he’s also got experience and past elite play that very few goalies his age have.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And this is why we should have been using some of our higher draft picks YEARS ago, to draft & develop some serious Goalie talent that we could have graduated by now.

For the record, there are only two goalies drafted in the past 5 drafts that have played 10 or more games in the NHL. One has sucked, and the other has been just okay, and was drafted far before we would have been able to pick. There are really only a handful of goalies in this league, at best, that aren't "question marks" from year to year, and most of them were fluked into with some mid-round pick a decade ago.

 

[saltming]

Just wondering if the same people praising Dubas for Murray now, were also praising the Mrazek signing. Early signs say this may work out, but it was still a huge shot in the dark to begin with

Both goalies addressed flaws in their styles before coming here and were trending well

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Here is the combined "Goals Saved above Expected" last 3 years combined comparing former goalies to present replacements.

Ranked Best to Worst in GSAx past 3 seasons cumulative results.

View attachment 582673

Its noticeable that Leaf goalies under Keefe's system struggle to post positive GSAx stats over his 3 seasons.

There is a belief that bringing in Murray and Samsonsov in front of a better team will improve their stats and GSAx numbers, but that wasn't true for Cambell, Andersen or Mrazek.

Hey @Mess can we can an update on these for this year?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hey @Mess can we can an update on these for this year?

I have a feeling you won't get a reply, so allow me!

Samsonov: +4.9 GSAx
Murray: +4.3 GSAx
Andersen: -3.6 GSAx
Mrazek: -5.3 GSAx
Campbell: -7.6 GSAx

Boy, that narrative of his is sure taking a hit.

 

[GoonieFace]

I have a feeling you won't get a reply, so allow me!

Samsonov: +4.9 GSAx
Murray: +4.3 GSAx
Andersen: -3.6 GSAx
Mrazek: -5.3 GSAx
Campbell: -7.6 GSAx

Boy, that narrative of his is sure taking a hit.

Your opinion doesn’t matter. You defend everything Dubas does and you probably loved the Mrazek signing as well. Also, it’s been 4 games lol, I mean he’s done well, but let’s not go nuts

 

[Dekes For Days]

Your opinion doesn’t matter. You defend everything Dubas does and you probably loved the Mrazek signing as well. Also, it’s been 4 games lol, I mean he’s done well, but let’s not go nuts

Lol. I don't defend everything Dubas does, and my post wasn't even an opinion anyway. It was just posting the requested stats.
Also, it's been 5 games for Murray, not 4, and 8 games for Samsonov. Nobody is "going nuts". We're just pointing out the early trends.
5 or 8 games may not be a ton, but it's more than the 0 games we had this offseason, when this board declared it a disaster.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes there's only a handful.........all the more reason to get in there, I think.

As for your 5 year point - Why would you only go back 5 years? Of course not too many Goalies are making much of an impact 5 years or less after being drafted(most are still in their team's systems & are very young). Might need to go back a hair more and "hedge our bets" by being in on one of them. Go back 8-9 years and there are enough. Maybe we could have grabbed one of these guys:

Tristan Jarry, Juse Saros, Carter Hart, Thatcher Demko, Spencer Knight, Vitek Vanecek, Ilya Sorokin, Ville Husso, Igor Shesterkin, Dan Vladar, Aiden Hill, Jake Oettinger, Stuart Skinner, etc.

It's always a crapshoot with Goalies - I get that. But that's even more reason to use decent picks on ones with good pedigree, to ensure ONE of them is actually a really good one. If we had planned on that, we could already have one of the guys mentioned above.

I mean, I agree that we should have drafted more goalies between 2007 and 2015, but we can't go back in time and change that in 2022. We've drafted 6 goalies in the past 7 drafts, so the last two management teams have already been putting more of a focus on it.

 

[Zybalto]

2 decent pedigree guys we recently drafted:

Ian Scott: CHL goalie of the year and made team Canada World junior team but his career was wrecked by injuries and he had to retire.

Joseph Woll: Our actual 3rd string goalie, this College standout made multiple US junior teams (and won a gold) and has gotten better every year as a pro (including 3-1, .911 last season with the Leafs) but is just coming back from an 8-month layoff with multiple injuries and setbacks. He just turned 24 in the summer so I hope he picks it up where he left off and it's really too bad he had such a rough year as he might have really made a mark compared with Kallgren.

Most goalies picked dont work out and its really sad about Scott as he didnt even get a chance to try and prove himself but there was quite obviously a plan here that was derailed by injuries.

That being said, both Murray and Samsonov have been better than expected on a better team even with the decimated D and if Woll can get up to speed quickly, our goaltending situation doesn't look too bad.