Combined Goalie Discussion Thread - PART TWO!

[Racer88]

I like the massive improvement we've had in our goaltending, I like having solid goaltending, and I like multiple options going into the playoffs for the first time in a long, long time. Murray hasn't been as big of a part of our goaltending success as I had hoped so far, but the season isn't over, he's still provided positive impact goaltending (which after last year, everybody should appreciate), and not every goalie you pick is going to be a Vezina candidate. It could certainly be a lot, lot worse, including with some of the alternative goalie options you incorrectly claimed were better.

I think the question was, do you like Murray now

 

[Nineteen67]

Just give Woll the back up job then LTIR Murray and forget about him. Hopefully he’ll buy into that strategy and not make them buy him out or spend assets getting rid of his contract.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I remember getting chirped on this board when I said Murray was a horrible acquisition. I was hoping to be proven wrong but alas, the guy is a band-aid and cannot be trusted to contribute.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played? For me, I’m going to say no, and just leave it at that.

WIth the benefit of hindsight, Murray obviously wouldn't be signed. But then, every team has things they would do differently so ... the way I look at it is to judge the goaltending moves together, Murray hasn't been good bus Samsonov has been very good so so far so good, we'll see what the playoffs bring.

The dismissiveness around Samsonov is also bizarre. He's had a good season and has been a top 10 level goalie this year but for some reason it goes ignored or people act as if he's still the same erratic guy from Washington which isn't the case at all IMO. He's actually been very consistent and to your point has bounced back well from losses or bad performances this year. Also has developed a certain calmness in net of late which he didn't necessarily have when he first came here.

Sammy's been great. And the ability to bounce back and the calmness bode well for the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

I like the massive improvement we've had in our goaltending, I like having solid goaltending, and I like multiple options going into the playoffs for the first time in a long, long time. Murray hasn't been as big of a part of our goaltending success as I had hoped so far, but the season isn't over, he's still provided positive impact goaltending (which after last year, everybody should appreciate), and not every goalie you pick is going to be a Vezina candidate. It could certainly be a lot, lot worse, including with some of the alternative goalie options you incorrectly claimed were better.

The question was "Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played?"

No need for a 500 word essay. A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think the question was, do you like Murray now

The question was "Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played?"

And the question was answered, even though the question in the first place was just an attempt to deflect.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think the question was, do you like Murray now

This user is something else.

And the question was answered, even though the question in the first place was just an attempt to deflect.

You never answer questions you just deflect.

If you were asked Is the sky blue you would still somehow avoid saying yes.

 

[ITM]

Just remember, as needs must, Murray was brought in for one game. If by some miracle (or…Murraycle) he gets that win that sends us to the second round, then Dubas and Co. will have succeeded to justify the acquisition.

Perhaps we never find out and Sammy or Woll provide for all our playoffs needs. But I think it’s important to remember that Murray is dramatically cyclical. And maybe he’s due for an upswing again?

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Just remember, as needs must, Murray was brought in for one game. If by some miracle (or…Murraycle) he gets that win that sends us to the second round, then Dubas and Co. will have succeeded to justify the acquisition.

Perhaps we never find out and Sammy or Will provide for all our playoffs needs. But I think it’s important to remember that Murray is dramatically cyclical. And maybe he’s due for an upswing again?

But today we hear what is his status and level after the testings sire....they just tested him. They push button and needle. Murray might be just fine and just a precaution all this. He is that tough of a man. He might not sleep well, but he a man

 

[Dekes For Days]

You never answer questions you just deflect.

I didn't deflect at all. I gave a full, detailed answer to the question that, ironically, was itself a deflection. You just won't accept the answer, because it doesn't match the doomsday, dump-on-Murray narrative that has been encouraged around here.

 

[ACC1224]

This user is something else.


You never answer questions you just deflect.

If you were asked Is the sky blue you would still somehow avoid saying yes.

If only people would stop asking.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

he a man

the truest thing said about Murray in this thread

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Korpisalo was my choice for Leafs goalie this year

Who is the Leafs other goalie for 22-23?​

I even doubled down at the TD that Leafs should still acquire him because Murray is too untrustworthy both for injuries and play. I wanted Leafs to LTIR Murray all year.

You can't keep someone on LTIR if they are healthy though. Pretty sure the league has doctors that do their own examinations to make sure teams aren't trying to circumvent the cap.

 

[Mess]

I didn't deflect at all. I gave a full, detailed answer to the question that, ironically, was itself a deflection. You just won't accept the answer, because it doesn't match the doomsday, dump-on-Murray narrative that has been encouraged around here.

This is how bad Murray has been in 2023 ..

In January played 7 games with a .883 sv% . missed all of February to injury, 6 games in March with .886 sv% and of to a great .714 sv% in his only start in April.

Which puts Murray's totals in 2023 at 14 games and .881 sv%.

You might be the only poster left on the entire board perhaps even planet that believes these are the kinds of #'s that you would encourage someone to want from your playoff goalie.

 

[Mess]

You can't keep someone on LTIR if they are healthy though. Pretty sure the league has doctors that do their own examinations to make sure teams aren't trying to circumvent the cap.

That's true, the player would have to be in agreement to it and things like concussions are strange things so how could anyone outside the player himself know how he is feeling.

I was simply trying to protect my Leafs from the Leafs own GM's poor goalie decisions in the best interest of the TEAM.

Sending players to Robidas' Island never to be seen and heard from again was a GM Lou Lamoriello thing.

Robidas Island, the destination no Toronto Maple Leafs player wanted to go last season because it effectively meant that their season would be done, no questions asked.​

The Toronto Maple Leafs very own “Island of Misfit Toys” was created when the organization made defenseman Stephane Robidas disappear once they placed him on injured reserve prior to the start of last season.

This type of loop hole has Lou Lamoriello written all over it, he somehow got Robidas to see that he indeed have a “knee injury” and had to be placed on IR for the entire season.

With this loophole-Lou move, a running gag had been born. The Maple Leafs knew that sending these players to the island would be in the best interest of the franchise.

Toronto Maple Leafs History of Robidas Island

Whenever the Toronto Maple Leafs made a player disappear they were sent to Robidas Island which was the running gag last season.

editorinleaf.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is how bad Murray has been in 2023 ..

Putting aside issues with the exclusive use of SV% to draw conclusions, why are you cherry picking a portion of the season?
Where was this when you were praising Campbell's season after his massively worse nosedive last year?

You might be the only poster left on the entire board perhaps even planet that believes these are the kinds of #'s that you would want from your playoff goalie.

Those aren't the kind of numbers that I want from my playoff goalie. That's just you misrepresenting what people are saying again.
Our playoff goalie is Samsonov, who has been one of the better goalies in the league this year.
That said, Murray's non-cherry-picked stats (+1.0 GSAx) aren't the disaster that some are trying to represent it as, and I don't mind having a two-time cup-winning veteran with a ton of playoff experience that put up positive goaltending impacts this year, as my secondary playoff goalie.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This type of loop hole has Lou Lamoriello written all over it

"Robidas island" wasn't some mastermind loophole. It was just putting legitimately injured players on LTIR. You can't LTIR healthy people. Your suggestion was never possible.

 

[TheScandal89]

"Robidas island" wasn't some mastermind loophole. It was just putting legitimately injured players on LTIR. You can't LTIR healthy people. Your suggestion was never possible.

Wasn't it that he was healthy but put on LTIR anyway? I can't remember specifically but everyone assumed he was fine because he had a whole offseason to recover (his knee I believe).

I even remember Lupul was saying he was healthy and able to play but the team wouldn't let him his final season. Then days later he had to retract that statement.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wasn't it that he was healthy but put on LTIR anyway? I can't remember specifically but everyone assumed he was fine because he had a whole offseason to recover (his knee I believe).
I even remember Lupul was saying he was healthy and able to play but the team wouldn't let him his final season. Then days later he had to retract that statement.

"Robidas said he had been nursing an exhibition-game injury to his right knee, part of the twice-broken leg that caused him so much grief in previous NHL stops in Dallas and Anaheim.
“I couldn’t do it,” he said of continuing to play. “I had two surgeries, the fracture, two screws in there … there was a lot happening with that right leg.”

Robidas’s first season with the Leafs had been cut short by a severe shoulder injury, though he’d had a positive effect on young defencemen Jake Gardiner and Morgan Rielly. Robidas disappeared from day-to-day life in Leafland after the knee issue, though it was known he had permission from the club to undergo part of his recovery at home in the Montreal area where his children live.

“It was not an easy year (to be in limbo), but I’d had my fair share of injuries, surgeries and rehab. The last injury was tough and my body can’t keep up. When you can’t play, that’s how it goes. Things don’t don’t always go your way, so it was a chance to stand back and take care of my body, reflect on all those years I played. I was lucky, I was a smaller guy (for a defenceman), but it caught up to me.

“It was sad to not fulfill the whole contract. I wanted to help the Leafs, but there is not much you can do when your body breaks down.”
He says he gave the knee ample time to respond and it never did, to the point where he says it still hurts to even kick a soccer ball in the back yard with his daughter.
“I can live normally, but there are things i can’t do.”"

He was done. As for Lupul, he went through a league-conducted physical and failed. He just had a hard time accepting it was over. But he came to terms with it eventually, and there are articles and quotes from him acknowledging how very done he was.

The Robidas Island thing was really just a funny joke, and at one point it exploded and got a mind of its own; helped by people attempting to use it for their narratives.

 

[Mess]

Just for a reference point on how bad Murray has been in 2023 lets compare him to Dubas' previous disaster Petr Mrazek from last year during that same time..

Matt Murray has faced (from above post) in 14 starts 337 shots made 297 saves for a 2023 save % of .881 sv%

Petr Mrazek during that same period 1 year earlier (Jan -April) played in 17 games facing 428 shots making 381 saves for a 2022 save% total of .890 sv%.

Its hard to believe but Murray has under-performed Petr Mrazek in terms of making saves heading towards the playoffs.

Source:

 

[Dekes For Days]

Murray this year: +1.0 GSAx
Mrazek last year: -11.6 GSAx

Imagine actually trying to claim that Mrazek was better. Good lord.

 

[ITM]

This is how bad Murray has been in 2023 ..

In January played 7 games with a .883 sv% . missed all of February to injury, 6 games in March with .886 sv% and of to a great .714 sv% in his only start in April.

Which puts Murray's totals in 2023 at 14 games and .881 sv%.


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You might be the only poster left on the entire board perhaps even planet that believes these are the kinds of #'s that you would encourage someone to want from your playoff goalie.

Is there a single poster using the numbers you just did to justify your claim?

Or is the argument for using Murray typically one that falls back on his actual playoffs success?

It's the latter isn't it, Mess?

Who is it that you're citing who is arguing that Maple Leafs Murray and his regular season playing statistics bear the brunt of any hope in his possible playoffs deployment?

 

[DarkKnight]

And other stuff? Wow this guy.

 

[DueDiligence]

The question was "Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played?"

No need for a 500 word essay. A simple yes or no will suffice.

You will never get that from DFD. "the voice of Leafs management"

 

[Dekes For Days]

You will never get that from DFD. "the voice of Leafs management"

He got an answer, and the only thing I'm the voice of is reason.