Combined Goalie Discussion Thread - PART TWO!

[Menzinger]

Murray was clearly plan A going into the season. Of course their in season play should dictate who starts game 1 but if you believe the insiders, Murray was still their preferred game #1 starter. Today I think the Leafs can put those thoughts to rest cause Murray is pretty much done if he is concussed.

I think it's most likely the front office is intended to go with a tandem setup given there were few true starters available, and from there went with what was the best combo they could get for the best price They ended up with an RFA and got paid assets to take on the other side of it.

We'll see what happens with Murray this offseason, but so far it's been a good bet oversll given the teams record, and that Samsonov could end up the long term solution into the future

 

[HamiltonNHL]

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[TD]Tue, 4/4[/TD]
[TD]vsCBJ[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Samsonov[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Thu, 4/6[/TD]
[TD]@BOS[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Murray[/TD]
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[TD]Sat, 4/8[/TD]
[TD]vsMTL[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Woll[/TD]
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[TD]Mon, 4/10[/TD]
[TD]@FLA[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Samsonov[/TD]
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[TD]Tue, 4/11[/TD]
[TD]@TB[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Woll[/TD]
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[TD]Thu, 4/13[/TD]
[TD]@NYR[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Murray[/TD]
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Samsonov can play whichever games he wants to tune up.

This is what I would do without knowing which games he wants to play.

And the playoff backup is whomever plays better.

 

[Menzinger]

Has Sammy though? He'll play one, maybe 2 good games then he's off again. Is it lack of endurance? I don't know. I just have no confidence that he can carry the team in the playoffs. Ofcourse Murray is another story.

A.Niemi, JGibson, C.Ward, F.Potvin, J.Binnington etc.
What do they all have in common?
Could Leafs catch lightning in a bottle with their rookie? Just saying.

Again I dont see it happening. Yeah right now it looks like Sammy will start off the playoffs.

25 wins, just 10 losses and a sv% of .915....

That's pretty good no matter how one looks at it

 

[LeafalCrusader]

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[TD]Tue, 4/4[/TD]
[TD]vsCBJ[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Samsonov[/TD]
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[TD]Thu, 4/6[/TD]
[TD]@BOS[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Murray[/TD]
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[TD]Sat, 4/8[/TD]
[TD]vsMTL[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Woll[/TD]
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[TD]Mon, 4/10[/TD]
[TD]@FLA[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Samsonov[/TD]
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[TD]Tue, 4/11[/TD]
[TD]@TB[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Woll[/TD]
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[TD]Thu, 4/13[/TD]
[TD]@NYR[/TD]
[TD]7:00 PM[/TD]
[TD]Murray[/TD]
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Samsonov can play whichever games he wants to tune up.

This is what I would do without knowing which games he wants to play.

And the playoff backup is whomever plays better.

I doubt Murray will be able to play again by Thursday tbh.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I doubt Murray will be able to play again by Thursday tbh.

what is his injury ?

I think Woll should be the backup then. Rest Murray until round 2.

Anyone know why moneypuck has Reimer's name in rainbow ?

 

[WTFMAN99]

We owe 6 million I believe. Not going to be a easy move. A buyout or LTIR seems most likely. Bad bet for sure.

I wonder if we could do something like Murray, Robertson and OTT's 7th next year for as much as the rights to Scott Morrow or as low as Carolina's 7th this year.

Carolina has the Russian kid on the cheap in net with Anderson+Raanta expiring.

 

[Stephen]

Murray has put up +1.0 GSAx, and came with 3rd and 7th round picks.
Talbot has put up -0.9 GSAx, and cost the Sens a 24 year old who was one of the best goalies in the league this year.
Campbell has put up -19.0 GSAx, and is signed for the next 4 years at 5m.

I know which I'd take.

The correct answer would have been none of Murray, Talbot or Campbell, and any 2x of Vanecek, Samsonov, Gustavsson, Husso, Georgiev or even Korpisalo of your own choosing.

 

[nuck]

We owe 6 million I believe. Not going to be a easy move. A buyout or LTIR seems most likely. Bad bet for sure.

A buyout I expect. That is an ugly contract, even after retention. Not sure who would be interested in trading for that much real money. Door mat clubs want the cap hit without the cost and clubs willing to pay the price want a player who will be in their lineup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The correct answer would have been none of Murray, Talbot or Campbell, and any 2x of Vanecek, Samsonov, Gustavsson, Husso, Georgiev or even Korpisalo of your own choosing.

Murray may not be your first choice among all goalies with all of the benefits of hindsight, but the correct answer of the 3 is obviously Murray.
Also not really sure why you'd consider Husso or Vanacek as better options. Korpisalo also didn't move last offseason, and Gustavsson moved for a goalie that we didn't have to offer.
Seems like we could just be happy with our massive improvement to good goaltending this year.

 

[saltming]

It is not an ideal way to enter league but it has occurred before .. unfortunately Sammy won't be able to cut it .. playoffs are too much pressure for him (same issues with Freddy/Soup too) .. Woll could not care less .. he actually amps his game up da bigger da game .. only some guys have this capability .. he does

While I love Woll and have also been in his corner since the draft, there is only old data on Sammy not being playoff ready.
Last year his whole technique was different than this year, and this year's regular season was more consistent than his last year's regular season and with more games played.
At worst this playoff is a mystery box for Sammy.

 

[Stephen]

Murray may not be your first choice among all goalies with all of the benefits of hindsight, but the correct answer of the 3 is obviously Murray.
Also not really sure why you'd consider Husso or Vanacek as better options. Korpisalo also didn't move last offseason, and Gustavsson moved for a goalie that we didn't have to offer.
Seems like we could just be happy with our massive improvement to good goaltending this year.

Vanecek has received the bulk of the play time in New Jersey and has been good until about a month ago. He was Samsonov's tandem partner and is 30-11-4 on the resurgent Devils, who are ahead of the Leafs in standings. Has better stats than Murray and the key is he's available. If VV and Sammy continued their growth here as they did in Washington, I think that would have been a good environment.

Husso's still a great goalie with upside on a young team that decided to bottom out. He's also starting over 50 games on a non playoff team and his numbers are similar to Matt Murray's, so that tells you a lot about how bad Murray has been lately to put up Detroit goalie numbers on the Leafs. On St. Louis, Husso was very good.

Korpisalo is tearing it up in LA. He was fantastic for CBJ in the bubble vs Toronto and all he needed was a winning team in front of him to shine. Probably wouldn't have cost much as a standalone player not attached to Gavrikov.

Murray himself was a high danger goalie choice. It's like the management version of blowing the zone to force a two on one, but the blowback risk is always the double bet on 1) health 2) quality with the chance for it to burn the team.

 

[Stephen]

While I love Woll and have also been in his corner since the draft, there is only old data on Sammy not being playoff ready.
Last year his whole technique was different than this year, and this year's regular season was more consistent than his last year's regular season and with more games played.
At worst this playoff is a mystery box for Sammy.

Sammy might be good in a seven game series because he can get beat up one night and just comes back strong the next game. That's an important quality to have vs someone like Campbell where you worry things might snowball.

 

[Niagara Bill]

25 wins, just 10 losses and a sv% of .915....

That's pretty good no matter how one looks at it

Sure, we enter the playoffs with a #1 goalie who the coach believes cannot start 2 games back to back. All season Keefe has had to baby these two guys.
So now entering 5 games in 7 or 8 days. Sammy or Murray have not got the ability and maybe the desire to be thev#1 guy. If it was me, Woll plays every fame fir the balance of the season. Get him the confidence and piss off one the others to step up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sure, we enter the playoffs with a #1 goalie who the coach believes cannot start 2 games back to back. All season Keefe has had to baby these two guys.
So now entering 5 games in 7 or 8 days. Sammy or Murray have not got the ability and maybe the desire to be thev#1 guy. If it was me, Woll plays every fame fir the balance of the season. Get him the confidence and piss off one the others to step up.

Any relation to John Brophy?

 

[Stephen]

I find the media's tendency to create this uncertainty around the goaltending to be tiresome. The bulk of the season has been played without Matt Murray being available, and most teams not named the Carolina Hurricanes are one injury away from being one injury away from not having any NHL goaltending. We have Samsonov and probably Woll behind him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Vanecek has received the bulk of the play time in New Jersey and has been good until about a month ago. He was Samsonov's tandem partner and is 30-11-4 on the resurgent Devils, who are ahead of the Leafs in standings. Has better stats than Murray and the key is he's available.

Wins are team stats, not goalie stats. Vanacek is +1.7 GSAx on the season, which is a negligible difference from Murray (+1.0). That's not worth a 3rd + 3rd + 7th + downgrading a 2nd.

Husso's still a great goalie with upside on a young team that decided to bottom out. He's also starting over 50 games on a non playoff team and his numbers are similar to Matt Murray's, so that tells you a lot about how bad Murray has been lately to put up Detroit goalie numbers on the Leafs.

He's been horrible this year. -9.8 GSAx. Not similar numbers to Murray at all. Also, for the record, Husso is the same age as Murray. Certainly not paying a 3rd + 3rd + 7th for that.
Also, Detroit didn't decide to bottom out. They've just been unintentionally bad, in part because of Husso.

Korpisalo is tearing it up in LA. He was fantastic for CBJ in the bubble vs Toronto and all he needed was a winning team in front of him to shine.

Korpsialo is certainly on a hot run, which I think we all know he's shown to be capable of before, but he wasn't moved last offseason, so I'm not sure why you're talking about him in the context of goalies that moved around last offseason. Also I'd argue that Korpisalo definitely had a chance to shine when he was on the best defensive team in the league.

Murray himself was a high danger goalie choice.

95% of goalie choices are high danger goalie choices. Made sense to pair a veteran with cup experience and a youngster with potential looking to establish themselves, and it's worked out quite well.

 

[saltming]

Sammy might be good in a seven game series because he can get beat up one night and just comes back strong the next game. That's an important quality to have vs someone like Campbell where you worry things might snowball.

Agreed on that and again the fact that he realized he needed to change his style and he embraced that AND has only become steadier as the season went on, gives me a reasonable foundation to have faith in him

 

[Stephen]

Wins are team stats, not goalie stats. Vanacek is +1.7 GSAx on the season, which is a negligible difference from Murray (+1.0). That's not worth a 3rd + 3rd + 7th + downgrading a 2nd.

He's been horrible this year. -9.8 GSAx. Not similar numbers to Murray at all. Also, for the record, Husso is the same age as Murray. Certainly not paying a 3rd + 3rd + 7th for that.
Also, Detroit didn't decide to bottom out. They've just been unintentionally bad, in part because of Husso.

Korpsialo is certainly on a hot run, which I think we all know he's shown to be capable of before, but he wasn't moved last offseason, so I'm not sure why you're talking about him in the context of goalies that moved around last offseason. Also I'd argue that Korpisalo definitely had a chance to shine when he was on the best defensive team in the league.

95% of goalie choices are high danger goalie choices. Made sense to pair a veteran with cup experience and a youngster with potential looking to establish themselves, and it's worked out quite well.

Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played? For me, I’m going to say no, and just leave it at that.

 

[hfman]

this is the elephant in the room

we have no goalies

 

[Mess]

Korpisalo is tearing it up in LA. He was fantastic for CBJ in the bubble vs Toronto and all he needed was a winning team in front of him to shine. Probably wouldn't have cost much as a standalone player not attached to Gavrikov.

Korpisalo was my choice for Leafs goalie this year

Who is the Leafs other goalie for 22-23?​

I would be looking to deal with CBJ for Joonas Korpisalo who has 1 year at $1.6 mil remaining.

I even doubled down at the TD that Leafs should still acquire him because Murray is too untrustworthy both for injuries and play. I wanted Leafs to LTIR Murray all year.

Secure a backup veteran goalie for the playoffs just in case Murray is unable to play.

Leafs are exposed with just Samsonov and Kallgren/Woll.

I did want Joonas Korpisalo but the Kings scooped him up smartly yesterday.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do you like Murray now, knowing what you know over the past 6 months and 29 games played? For me, I’m going to say no, and just leave it at that.

I like the massive improvement we've had in our goaltending, I like having solid goaltending, and I like multiple options going into the playoffs for the first time in a long, long time. Murray hasn't been as big of a part of our goaltending success as I had hoped so far, but the season isn't over, he's still provided positive impact goaltending (which after last year, everybody should appreciate), and not every goalie you pick is going to be a Vezina candidate. It could certainly be a lot, lot worse, including with some of the alternative goalie options you incorrectly claimed were better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Korpisalo was my choice for Leafs goalie this year

I'm not sure why you would think people have forgotten the summer. You advocated for every goalie under the sun at one point, once you were sure it wasn't who we were actually acquiring.

 

[1specter]

I find the media's tendency to create this uncertainty around the goaltending to be tiresome. The bulk of the season has been played without Matt Murray being available, and most teams not named the Carolina Hurricanes are one injury away from being one injury away from not having any NHL goaltending. We have Samsonov and probably Woll behind him.

The dismissiveness around Samsonov is also bizarre. He's had a good season and has been a top 10 level goalie this year but for some reason it goes ignored or people act as if he's still the same erratic guy from Washington which isn't the case at all IMO. He's actually been very consistent and to your point has bounced back well from losses or bad performances this year. Also has developed a certain calmness in net of late which he didn't necessarily have when he first came here.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The dismissiveness around Samsonov is also bizarre. He's had a good season and has been a top 10 level goalie this year but for some reason it goes ignored or people act as if he's still the same erratic guy from Washington which isn't the case at all IMO. He's actually been very consistent and to your point has bounced back well from losses or bad performances this year. Also has developed a certain calmness in net of late which he didn't necessarily have when he first came here.

He's definitely calmed his game down a bit as the season progressed. Interestingly, on a per-game basis, Samsonov this year has been our best starting goalie in the cap era.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Any relation to John Brophy?

These two have been pampered, rested, paid well, given multiple opportunity and both have failed to step up and grab the ring. At some point the rest of the team must resent it.
Ah yes, cousin John, maybe Harold's worst coaching decision.