Combined Goalie Discussion Thread - PART TWO!

[Snip Genos]

Ive been rooting for woll ever since i saw him get drafted live on tv and he said hes gonna do everything he can to make the leafs and 1 day help them win the cup. Havent heard a draftee talk about winning the cup in those draft questionairs before plus im a bricklayer so its pretty cool lol. Anyways Samsonov is alright, Campbell gave us a chance last year so i dont see why he cant take us to the 2nd round

 

[colchar]

Last year, our goalies saved 21.0 goals less than expected.
This year, our goalies have saved 16.8 goals more than expected.

Last year, our starting goalie was -2.3 GSAx on the season, and had been in a nosedive since January.
This year, our starting goalie is +12.5 GSAx on the season, and has remained pretty consistent throughout the year.

Last year, our backup goalie was -11.6 GSAx on the season. This year, our backup goalie is a two-time cup winner who is at +2.3 GSAx on the season.

We're in a vastly better position by any objective measure.

Expected? Christ those so-called advanced stats are a joke. What is expected is irrelevant, what actually happens is all that matters. You don't win or lose games based on what is expected, you win or lose games based on what actually happens.

Or do you think you're simulating a season in NHL '23?

 

[colchar]

Robidas island asap and good riddance.

Absolutely.

 

[centipede2233]

When the leafs lose in the 1st rd yet again, keefe and dubas need to be fired immediately. It won’t solve the problems like matthews and Nylander with a year left, Murray with a year left, half your Cap space still tied up in 4 forwards, Morgan reilly on a long term deal at 7.5 mil per, but it’s time for a new incompetent management team and coach to have a crack at things…

 

[Dreakmur]

Expected? Christ those so-called advanced stats are a joke. What is expected is irrelevant, what actually happens is all that matters. You don't win or lose games based on what is expected, you win or lose games based on what actually happens.

Or do you think you're simulating a season in NHL '23?

We’ve had better goaltending this season, but the team in front of them isn’t been as good.

 

[authentic]

Expected? Christ those so-called advanced stats are a joke. What is expected is irrelevant, what actually happens is all that matters. You don't win or lose games based on what is expected, you win or lose games based on what actually happens.

Or do you think you're simulating a season in NHL '23?

What has actually happened in the past 3 months is we've had vastly better goaltending than the 3 months leading up to last years playoffs

 

[ponder]

For Murray the person, I hope he’s OK. But for the Leafs, I think Keefe being forced to play Woll a bit is a good thing. He’s been outstanding for the Marlies, and although it’s only been 4 games with the Leafs, he’s been terrific in them.

Woll deserves a longer look, hopefully Keefe gets him a few games before the playoffs. Sammy should be our #1, but if he falters or gets hurt, I’d personally feel better with Woll stepping in than Murray. Rookie goalies getting hot and being amazing for their teams in the playoffs happens pretty often, Woll could be that guys. Matt Murray himself did this for the 2016 Pens cup! Binnington and Cam Ward other recent examples.

 

[slozo]

So, first off, I just wanna say I hope Matt Murray isn’t seriously hurt. Was at the game tonight, and as soon as I saw him, go down, it looked bad, saw the replay, and looked even worse, it was the times when you know if the back of your head on a hard surface and bad shit happens… Hope he’s OK.

So I covered my base there, right?
Hopefully I did and you understand I’m not a heartless psycho who wishes harm on random people who have done nothing wrong to my knowledge. OK

So halfway through the game, I turned to my buddy who I am with, and we are five or six drinks deep mind you, and I turn to him and say, “is it wrong for me to hope that, despite being OK for his quality of life, that Murray is out for the rest of the season and playoffs and we can now just go with Samsonov and Woll? Too soon? ‘

I think this is the main unresolved issue that needs to be solved, and besides guys like me, who have a good eye test/feel for goalies, apparently our management and coaching team still has some vain, unrealistic hope in Murray that needs to be quashed and put away in a trashcan, quick fast in a hurry.

Too soon?

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Split the last 6 games give Woll some more starts imo.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Samsonov/Woll

a decent tandem.

murray shouldn’t be anywhere near the net.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Expected? Christ those so-called advanced stats are a joke. What is expected is irrelevant, what actually happens is all that matters. You don't win or lose games based on what is expected, you win or lose games based on what actually happens.

Well, first off, expected metrics are not "a joke". They're incredibly valuable.
But beyond that, the statistics you quoted and are referencing are in fact "what actually happened".
They're just "what actually happened" within the context of what they faced.
Our goaltending has been massively better this year, and it would be really really concerning if you can't see that.

 

[Racer88]

Well, first off, expected metrics are not "a joke". They're incredibly valuable.
But beyond that, the statistics you quoted and are referencing are in fact "what actually happened".
They're just "what actually happened" within the context of what they faced.
Our goaltending has been massively better this year, and it would be really really concerning if you can't see that.

Sammy has been a big upgrade in net but the higher paid Murray has been a real mess.
he played a few decent games at the start but he has been awful or injured since then

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sammy has been a big upgrade in net but the higher paid Murray has been a real mess.
he played a few decent games at the start but he has been awful or injured since then

Our goaltending overall has been quite good, and a massive upgrade over last year.
We have 3 goalies that have provided positive impact to our team this year.

 

[Racer88]

Our goaltending overall has been quite good, and a massive upgrade over last year.
We have 3 goalies that have provided positive impact to our team this year.

you are correct that we have had a massive upgrade in net but it’s 2 goalies Woll and Sammy not Murray.
You cannot possibly really think that Murray is a massive upgrade in net.the guy is exactly like many of us thought he would be, often injured and shaky in net when he wasn’t .
All you have to do is look at his rebound control

 

[Zybalto]

Sitting at 10th overall for team save % but looks better if you take out the 10 games 4th stringer Kallgren had to play. Murray has faded down the stretch but has been counterbalanced by the emergence of Woll.

Dependent on the health of Murray now, It actually might be Samsonov/Woll in the playoffs which might be to most people's liking and would actually give the Leafs one of the better statistical tandems in the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

you are correct that we have had a massive upgrade in net but it’s 2 goalies Woll and Sammy not Murray.

All of Samsonov, Murray, and Woll have been upgrades on the goalies they replaced from last year, and have brought positive impact goaltending to the team.
Our team has gone from some of the worst goaltending in the league to well above average.
Most people would be happy with that.

 

[Peasy]

Crazy Dubas gambled so much on Murray. Hes really lucky Washington didnt qualify Samsonov.

 

[Rob Brown]

So we ride or die with Sammy.

 

[fancy lad]

it's just disappointing. Murray showed signs that could regain that form from earlier in the season. and i don't care what people say, there was that stretch early on where he looked incredible, but sadly he sucks and has been a pretty big fail.

I hope he's OK, but he's done as a viable option. Yes i agree that Joseph Woll is a better as much as i hated that idea a couple weeks ago.

You ride or die with Samsonov. It's the only gameplan.

 

[DarkKnight]

Expected? Christ those so-called advanced stats are a joke. What is expected is irrelevant, what actually happens is all that matters. You don't win or lose games based on what is expected, you win or lose games based on what actually happens.

Or do you think you're simulating a season in NHL '23?

Man did you miss an expected Cup parade last year, what a party. It went off a pier into Lake Ontario so everyone who attended could regain consciousnes.

 

[ACC1224]

A Murray injury could be the blessing in disguise this team needs.
Take the Game 1 starters decision out of their hands.

Is there any update on him?

 

[Gary Nylund]

A Murray injury could be the blessing in disguise this team needs.
Take the Game 1 starters decision out of their hands.

Is there any update on him?

Haha, this from the guy who recently posted that Murray starting in the playoffs was "what he was brought in for". So you finally realized that you don't bring in a guy who hasn't played well for several years and decide he's your playoff starter before he's even played a game for us, good for you.

 

[Rob Brown]

Haha, this from the guy who recently posted that Murray starting in the playoffs was "what he was brought in for". So you finally realized that you don't bring in a guy who hasn't played well for several years and decide he's your playoff starter before he's even played a game for us, good for you.

Both can exist. He can first think that Murray would have been a good playoff option based on his experience only to now believe that this injury makes Keefe's decision obvious.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Both can exist. He can first think that Murray would have been a good playoff option based on his experience only to now believe that this injury makes Keefe's decision obvious.

That's not what he said though.

When you bring in two new goalies, both who have potential to be good, you see what happens during the season and maybe one emerges as the better option (like Samsonov has done) and it's obvious that this is what the Leafs did. What you do NOT do (because it would be insane), is decide before the season even begins which one is the guy you'll be relying on in the playoffs because "that's what he was brought in for".

 

[Peasy]

I think dubas really thought Murray would be the guy ever since the off season but as the season has played out that has clearly blown up in his face.

If he's still around in the off season, it's likely we'll be seeing dubas trying to dump Murray.

Crazy how injury prone this guy is.