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Combined Goalie Discussion Thread - PART TWO!

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Jimmy Firecracker said:
All four BJ goals came in close in the slot.



Suppose there were a lot of garbage shots, that’s still unacceptable on the part of the Leafs defence.
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At least two of them there were two jackets uncovered near the crease and the high stick was an absolute garbage tier play by Holl to let Johnson get in that position

Additionally if you had to pick a shot chart you want from a team you're picking the jackets considering we had 0 shots from the crease area if you go by that chart
 
rocketman588 said:
dditionally if you had to pick a shot chart you want from a team you're picking the jackets
Click to expand...
leafsscf.png

I'll take the Leafs, especially considering the Jacket's best chances weren't even self-generated.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Objectively, the Leaf's side is better than the Jacket's side.
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It is 100% not especially considering theirs rings the net which also throws away you're "they only took garbage shots" theory which if you actually watched the games you would know

Maybe stop just looking at money puck box scores to figure out what happened within a game if you have a difficult time interpretating graphics and what stats are saying
 
rocketman588 said:
It is 100% not especially considering theirs rings the net which also throws away you're "they only took garbage shots" theory which if you actually watched the games you would know
Maybe stop just looking at money puck box scores to figure out what happened within a game if you have a difficult time interpretating graphics and what stats are saying
Click to expand...
Objectively, the Leaf's side is better. All of the stats and graphics and eye test say the same thing.
I didn't say that they only took garbage shots. I said that their shot totals were boosted above ours with garbage shots, which is objectively true, and can be seen on both provided charts.
Both teams had chances around the net, and the Leafs got a lot more value outside of just that very inner area.
I saw what happened in the game. I saw the Leafs largely dominate Columbus, and saw them lose (and get 3 of those goals and inside chances against) off of mistakes by Woll and the refs.
You were the one that started talking about graphics. I just provided an additional one that shows quality as well, as you seemed to be mistaken about which side was better.
 
Petrus said:
In 2021 when he played 3-4 games, Woll seemed to be relying on his athleticism with lots of movement in net and at times caught off position after making the 1st initial save.

He looks very different in this first game; much calmer in net. I noticed that this year he tends to stand tall with head up above the players to track the puck away from the net.

I know the results were an L against CBJ but I thought Woll was really good. I hope he gets more chances because in due time, I think he can take on 2nd goalie spot on the team.
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Yeah, I made the note that he looked a lot calmer and more structurally sound in the first but after things unraveled after the second and it was turning into a 40+shot night I noticed he would really start overcommitting to the play/shot unfolding and started the scramble and drift. Overall, I think he could be a backup goalie, but not expecting massive change in upside.
 
Stephen said:
Yeah, I made the note that he looked a lot calmer and more structurally sound in the first but after things unraveled after the second and it was turning into a 40+shot night I noticed he would really start overcommitting to the play/shot unfolding and started the scramble and drift. Overall, I think he could be a backup goalie, but not expecting massive change in upside.
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Lack of experience was telling. But I thought it was an encouraging start. He should get an opportunity next Sunday in Chicago
 
BertCorbeau said:
Lack of experience was telling. But I thought it was an encouraging start. He should get an opportunity next Sunday in Chicago
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I say we give him a game against a competitive team and challenge the team to play well in front of him.
 
BertCorbeau said:
Well the Leafs play Chicago during the week this week, Montreal next Saturday, and then Chicago next Sunday ... Sooooo :laugh:
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Hah, then maybe we start with Chicago and feed him a real team in a couple of weeks if he's still up.
 
Stephen said:
I say we give him a game against a competitive team and challenge the team to play well in front of him.
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Well, every team is competitive, agree with the challenge part though. It's very disappointing that this team does the opposite of rising to the occasion in these games where you'd think they would make a point of showing up. JT's return to the island and a number of game 7's are top of the list but there's also been a number of games like last night. Guy's playing his first game in the NHL, show him what kind of team you are and help him out FFS, last night's shit show was embarrassing. If I'm Woll today I'm thinking WFT is this team?
 
No love for Sammy on NHL Exec and Players poll top 10 NHL goalies.

Top 10 NHL goaltenders of 2023: Execs, players vote for best

Feb 14, 2023

ESPN's 2023 NHL position-by-position ranking collected 20 surveys that represented those on the ice and behind the scenes.

Here's how it worked: Surveys were conducted over the past two months. Respondents were asked to rank their current top 10 players at center, winger, defenseman and goaltender, based on a predetermined list of the top 25 to 35 players at each position. Players who were ranked in the top 10 were given a numerical score -- No. 1 earned 10 points, No. 2 earned nine points and so on.

There were 10 NHL players surveyed -- six from the Eastern Conference, four from the Western Conference. They range from NHL award nominees to veteran role players. To balance that perspective, we surveyed 10 people from the hockey operations departments of NHL teams, including three coaches and three general managers.

Combined, their insights led to rankings that go behind fan conjecture and media narratives to reveal the best of the best -- at least according to those inside the NHL.

www.espn.com

Ranking the NHL's top goaltenders for 2023: Why Vasilevskiy is the clear top choice

We polled a collection of players, coaches and front-office personnel to determine the top netminders in the league right now.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Who was the biggest snub from ESPN's 2023 NHL goalie rankings?

ESPN's Greg Wyshynski on the biggest snubs from the 2023 NHL positional rankings for goaltenders -- and who shouldn't be on the list.

 
Let's not get too carried away here, Samsonov has played well for us but the sample size is still small and before this season, while his W/L record is fantastic, his SV% ... not so much.

1676477498247.png
 
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Gary Nylund said:
Let's not get too carried away here, Samsonov has played well for us but the sample size is still small and before this season, while his W/L record is fantastic, his SV% ... not so much.

View attachment 650685
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That puts him 10th in SV% for goalies who’ve started a min of 20 games.. Looking beyond the basic, Sammy is:

- 10th in quality start % with goalies who’ve started 20+ games
- 7th in even strength SV% at 0.924
- 21st in PP SV% (0.863)
- his high danger and scoring chance SV% are on the higher end of his career so far

As you said he’s been good, shown he can steal a game and provide some glsrsbke goaltending for a period of time. But he’s had a couple of slumps and has had injury issues. Remains to be seen if he can sustain his play and stay healthy.
 
Mess said:
No love for Sammy on NHL Exec and Players poll top 10 NHL goalies.

Top 10 NHL goaltenders of 2023: Execs, players vote for best

Feb 14, 2023

ESPN's 2023 NHL position-by-position ranking collected 20 surveys that represented those on the ice and behind the scenes.

Here's how it worked: Surveys were conducted over the past two months. Respondents were asked to rank their current top 10 players at center, winger, defenseman and goaltender, based on a predetermined list of the top 25 to 35 players at each position. Players who were ranked in the top 10 were given a numerical score -- No. 1 earned 10 points, No. 2 earned nine points and so on.

There were 10 NHL players surveyed -- six from the Eastern Conference, four from the Western Conference. They range from NHL award nominees to veteran role players. To balance that perspective, we surveyed 10 people from the hockey operations departments of NHL teams, including three coaches and three general managers.

Combined, their insights led to rankings that go behind fan conjecture and media narratives to reveal the best of the best -- at least according to those inside the NHL.

www.espn.com

Ranking the NHL's top goaltenders for 2023: Why Vasilevskiy is the clear top choice

We polled a collection of players, coaches and front-office personnel to determine the top netminders in the league right now.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Who was the biggest snub from ESPN's 2023 NHL goalie rankings?

ESPN's Greg Wyshynski on the biggest snubs from the 2023 NHL positional rankings for goaltenders -- and who shouldn't be on the list.

Click to expand...

Most look fine, but they really went off the rails with the Markstrom and Gibson selections.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Most look fine, but they really went off the rails with the Markstrom and Gibson selections.
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NHL Execs and players don't seem to be all about the present only.

1676480028088.png


Markstrom is coming off a season last year, where he played 63 games 37 wins 15 losses 9 OTL with a 2.22 GAA and .922 sv% with 9 shutouts.

Anybody would take those #'s from last year and put him in the top 10 as a starter.

Sammy is having the opposite

1676480669023.png


He was coming off a year where he played 44 games with 3.02 GAA and .896 sv% on the season. You play 1/2 your teams games with a sv% < .900 is not going to get you noticed.

Based on this year's numbers Sammy should be in the Top 10 goalies for consideration but 26 games is smaller sample size.
 
Last edited:
Mess said:
NHL Execs and players don't seem to be all about the present only.
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This is the 4th straight year that Gibson is really bad.
Mess said:
Markstrom is coming off a season last year, where he played 63 games 37 wins 15 losses 9 OTL with a 2.22 GAA and .922 sv% with 9 shutouts.
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Last year was really his only good season, and he still only ended up 12th in GSAx, because he was heavily boosted by having the best defense in front of him of any goalie in the league. And he finished the season with a complete implosion in the 2nd round. Markstrom is better than the Gibson selection, but he still doesn't belong on this list.
 
How many games do you Murray playing, he has 19 already?
How many more? Playoffs?

Dekes For Days said:
This is the 4th straight year that Gibson is really bad.

Last year was really his only good season, and he still only ended up 12th in GSAx, because he was heavily boosted by having the best defense in front of him of any goalie in the league. And he finished the season with a complete implosion in the 2nd round. Markstrom is better than the Gibson selection, but he still doesn't belong on this list.
Click to expand...
Talking about someone else? Think Saros.
 
ULF_55 said:
How exactly did the Leafs land one of the best young goalies in the league for nothing?

Now they just need to solidify the backup position.
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Flat cap seems to have made some teams do some silly things. Imagine being the Caps and letting Vanecek and Samsonov both go and bring in Kuemper.
 
Not the greatest night for Samsonov, but probably pretty tough to come in with your body drained from being sick.
Hoping he gets a chance to rebound on Tuesday.

Still, having a much better year overall with our goaltending so far.
Last year, our goalies were a combined -21.0 goals saved above expected.
This year so far, our goalies are a combined +14.1 goals saved above expected.

That's a 35 goal improvement from our goaltending!
 
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