News Article: Colorado Avalanche Media Coverage Part VI

[dahrougem2]

So question since I'm not well versed in this stuff:

Won't the actual on-air talent be safe even if Altitude/RSOs go under? Someone has to broadcast the games, call the games, be the in-game reporter, etc. Would people like Moser/Rycroft/Gaus/etc really be out of work? You can't have the same people cover multiple teams can you?

 

[MildAvaholic]

So question since I'm not well versed in this stuff:

Won't the actual on-air talent be safe even if Altitude/RSOs go under? Someone has to broadcast the games, call the games, be the in-game reporter, etc. Would people like Moser/Rycroft/Gaus/etc really be out of work? You can't have the same people cover multiple teams can you?

MLS Soccer just switched to Apple TV this season. A lot of the team specific talent were not brought onboard, as Apple opted to go with a few traveling broadcast teams. Fox example, I follow RSL. Brian Dunseth is the only person from that team's broadcast who is now on Apple. Granted, he has done nationally televised games and even has a show on SiriusXM. Looks like Apple has 59 hosts, match anaylst, play-by-play , rules ect people doing all of their broadcasts.

 

[redacted]

So question since I'm not well versed in this stuff:

Won't the actual on-air talent be safe even if Altitude/RSOs go under? Someone has to broadcast the games, call the games, be the in-game reporter, etc. Would people like Moser/Rycroft/Gaus/etc really be out of work? You can't have the same people cover multiple teams can you?

No.. most will be shown the door. Much, much cheaper to operate the league with a rotation of 10-14 teams (probably closer to 14), than 32 teams. They'd likely have some regionalized where the same ~2-3 teams operate the Vegas, Arizona, Colorado, and Dallas home games. The West Coast teams get the same 2-3. The Chicago, Minny, St Louis, Detroit and Columbus get the same 3-4. Nashville, Carolina, Tampa, and Florida get the same 2-3. Etc. Canada will be separate for now as their deals different.

Just look to what MLS did with their package, that'll be how this ends up in time. I'd be shocked if Moser or Rycroft would even be in the realm of what ESPN would do with the whole package. They'd be catering less to each hometown fan, so these massive homers wouldn't be getting the run. Your Forslund and Randorfs would be much more likely to stick.

 

[AvBuff]

So question since I'm not well versed in this stuff:

Won't the actual on-air talent be safe even if Altitude/RSOs go under? Someone has to broadcast the games, call the games, be the in-game reporter, etc. Would people like Moser/Rycroft/Gaus/etc really be out of work? You can't have the same people cover multiple teams can you?

As in all things legal . . . it's in the details. I fully expect the Altitude/RSO to get sold/spun off in the not-too-distant future. One of the stipulations in the deal might be that the buyer retains all the on-air talent. Maybe the buyer already has on-air talent and doesn't want to pay for the Altitude people in the purchase price. As is discussed above, it's more likely that the buyer will have its own operation and talent in place but . . . you never know.

Stay tuned. Literally.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are having these discussions with Comcast right now. I'm sure the settlement discussions in the lawsuit were along the lines of Comcast telling KSE: "Look, we're not promising anything to you in terms of broadcast carrying rights. But the only way we will talk to you at all on the business dispute going forward is if you dismiss this ridiculous lawsuit. Until you do that, there will never be any business resolution or discussions. Period".

I've been litigating business cases for 35 years. That's a common approach when you've got the other side over a barrel in litigation.

Bottom line: if KSE truly values it employees and talent and wants to keep it intact, it's going to have to go to Comcast (and Dish) literally on its knees and practically give away the broadcast rights - or at least operate it at a substantial loss. Maybe Kroenke decides to keep the Avs/Nuggets as his pet project in his empire and simply enjoy running 2 wildly successful pro sports operations . . . without making money on the broadcast rights.

Doesn't sound like SK though . . .

 

[Pokecheque]

The radio guys might be safe (emphasis on "might" since more and more teams are opting to just simulcast the TV coverage on radio like the Stars and Canes do, which I think is shitty) but the TV people would mostly be done.

I know most people won't care since they don't seem to like the Altitude team much but I'll be pretty bummed if/when hockey becomes more like NFL coverage where there's not really any local people covering the local team. I quite enjoy the in-studio segments with Johnny's Wine Cave and the analysis they do. Every time the Avs are on ESPN or ESPN+ I usually just groan because the in-studio analysis is usually terrible, especially when they involve effin' Messier.

 

[redacted]

The radio guys might be safe (emphasis on "might" since more and more teams are opting to just simulcast the TV coverage on radio like the Stars and Canes do, which I think is shitty) but the TV people would mostly be done.

I know most people won't care since they don't seem to like the Altitude team much but I'll be pretty bummed if/when hockey becomes more like NFL coverage where there's not really any local people covering the local team. I quite enjoy the in-studio segments with Johnny's Wine Cave and the analysis they do. Every time the Avs are on ESPN or ESPN+ I usually just groan because the in-studio analysis is usually terrible, especially when they involve effin' Messier.

It is 100% when. The question revolves around is it within 2 years or is it 5-7? The MSG's of the world that still make a killing, they can survive and hold out as long as the leagues agree. We already know the Bally/AT&T side is done soon. Where NESN, Altitude and NBC fit in are the curious ones that may hold out as long as possible.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW not to derail the discussion but is Gretzky done on TNT? I realize he was just a part-timer before but ever since Tocchet left and Hank became a regular I haven't seen him at all. It may have even been before that.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

BTW not to derail the discussion but is Gretzky done on TNT? I realize he was just a part-timer before but ever since Tocchet left and Hank became a regular I haven't seen him at all. It may have even been before that.

He only comes on when the Oilers play so he can cheerlead for them the whole show.

 

[willy702]

Bottom line: if KSE truly values it employees and talent and wants to keep it intact, it's going to have to go to Comcast (and Dish) literally on its knees and practically give away the broadcast rights - or at least operate it at a substantial loss. Maybe Kroenke decides to keep the Avs/Nuggets as his pet project in his empire and simply enjoy running 2 wildly successful pro sports operations . . . without making money on the broadcast rights.

Doesn't sound like SK though . . .

Who is going to buy this Altitude? Radio stations are cheap and easy to manage costs on. TV networks are a different story. They could have gotten eyeballs and maybe a break even return putting the team on broadcast TV and collected ad revenues, they passed on that. KSE could have supported Evoca but they let that die in a year. What they have now in Direct and Fubo revenue has to be a pittance. There is no reason for a third party to buy this, even if it costs $1. This station is going to die the same death the others are and we're going to digital distribution.

The hard part of it is that people will pick and choose. I don't think typical sports fan around Denver is going to subscribe to all three leagues services at $200 a pop. I really think if they wanted to keep running this path KSE really messed up letting Evoca die. That model would work given time, many sports fans would spare $30 on it seeing that if they have it on cable or satellite it's $20+ dollars for the sports and $15 or so for the broadcast channel fee. For that they get to watch all the local teams in an already established medium.

 

[redacted]

Who is going to buy this Altitude? Radio stations are cheap and easy to manage costs on. TV networks are a different story. They could have gotten eyeballs and maybe a break even return putting the team on broadcast TV and collected ad revenues, they passed on that. KSE could have supported Evoca but they let that die in a year. What they have now in Direct and Fubo revenue has to be a pittance. There is no reason for a third party to buy this, even if it costs $1. This station is going to die the same death the others are and we're going to digital distribution.

The hard part of it is that people will pick and choose. I don't think typical sports fan around Denver is going to subscribe to all three leagues services at $200 a pop. I really think if they wanted to keep running this path KSE really messed up letting Evoca die. That model would work given time, many sports fans would spare $30 on it seeing that if they have it on cable or satellite it's $20+ dollars for the sports and $15 or so for the broadcast channel fee. For that they get to watch all the local teams in an already established medium.

A private equity firm that specializes in asset stripping can likely make a really pretty penny off an Altitude purchase. It is risky, but there is likely a market to 3-5x the purchase price. Now buying it to run... nobody really wants to be in that business today. Disney found a sucker in Sinclair... and after that, nobody really wants to jump into that business. AT&T has been trying to sell their networks for a year now.

 

[S E P H]

I don't think Kroenke comes across as having an ego...well compared to other billionaires, but considering how wealthy he is, I simply cannot think how he'll let his telly station ever go bankrupt. He'll put money into it and find a way, in the long run, to stop it from bleeding even if that means selling the rights to the NHL and NBA respectively. But he won't have his KSE reputation get tarnished IMO.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The radio guys might be safe (emphasis on "might" since more and more teams are opting to just simulcast the TV coverage on radio like the Stars and Canes do, which I think is shitty) but the TV people would mostly be done.

I know most people won't care since they don't seem to like the Altitude team much but I'll be pretty bummed if/when hockey becomes more like NFL coverage where there's not really any local people covering the local team. I quite enjoy the in-studio segments with Johnny's Wine Cave and the analysis they do. Every time the Avs are on ESPN or ESPN+ I usually just groan because the in-studio analysis is usually terrible, especially when they involve effin' Messier.

What is it TNT that has Biz? Those have been good. Especially Biz and Hank lol. They show some funny shit, and roast each other.

Generally I do like the Altitude crew, except when they go full stupid like having a band named penalty killers.

I just couldn't with that lol.

 

[willy702]

I don't think Kroenke comes across as having an ego...well compared to other billionaires, but considering how wealthy he is, I simply cannot think how he'll let his telly station ever go bankrupt. He'll put money into it and find a way, in the long run, to stop it from bleeding even if that means selling the rights to the NHL and NBA respectively. But he won't have his KSE reputation get tarnished IMO.

KSE is all about the real estate. If the Arena area plan wasn't approved they probably would consider selling the teams, maybe as a group, or one by one. I think the Rapids will be sold in some years after they max out the real estate there. Wouldn't be surprised if the franchise moved after the sale.

 

[S E P H]

KSE is all about the real estate. If the Arena area plan wasn't approved they probably would consider selling the teams, maybe as a group, or one by one. I think the Rapids will be sold in some years after they max out the real estate there. Wouldn't be surprised if the franchise moved after the sale.

What? I don't agree with any remark you mentioned here. Kroenke might love real estate, but he doesn't own Arsenal, Rams, Nuggets, and Avs just because he gets what he wants from the city to build hipster apartment buildings.

 

[willy702]

What? I don't agree with any remark you mentioned here. Kroenke might love real estate, but he doesn't own Arsenal, Rams, Nuggets, and Avs just because he gets what he wants from the city to build hipster apartment buildings.

Arsenal is the lone exception. Rams were a HUGE real estate play in their move to LA. The Arena project in Denver is a massive real estate play. Kroenke made all his money off of real estate and will continue to make his money off of it. The sports entities are hardly profitable compared to what his companies make annually from real estate rents. And most larger sports franchises have some component of expectation of real estate profit now baked in because its their money clear of any sharing with the players or other franchises.

 

[redacted]

The is a point to the real estate part... Stan didn't build a practice facility for the Rams until he could do a whole large scale real estate project alongside it.

 

[Ceremony]

After watching last night's game on TNT and seeing their panel of Beavis and Butthead tribute acts I'm quite content with NHL broadcasts changing to exclusively scoreboard feeds with no commentary. They made Moser look like David Frost.

 

[Pokecheque]

After watching last night's game on TNT and seeing their panel of Beavis and Butthead tribute acts I'm quite content with NHL broadcasts changing to exclusively scoreboard feeds with no commentary. They made Moser look like David Frost.

Seriously I still don't understand the constant bitching about Moser when the national broadcasts drive me up the wall. I get it, he's not great, but I also don't think he's anywhere near the homer that a lot of other regional broadcasters are (listened the Leafs radio guys on the way home during that game and holy shit, c'mon). He's no John Forslund, but he's Jack Edwards either.

I also feel like they're trying just a bit too hard on the TNT panel to be just the guys on the NBA TNT panel. Those guys have an easy, built-in chemistry (they also all have personality to spare).

I will say I do like Keith Yandle as an analyst.

 

[S E P H]

The is a point to the real estate part... Stan didn't build a practice facility for the Rams until he could do a whole large scale real estate project alongside it.

If he can kill two birds with one stone, he'll do it, but I think he cares about his sports ventures regardless of the real estate that comes with it. He seems like someone who cares more about winning trophies than worrying about his team gaining value. Not that he's opposed to teams rising in value, but I don't think he cared when the Avs were bottom of the barrel at like 300 million. When you're talking about the Rams, it was a team that he wanted to move that had zero stadiums or anything. He was building from the ground up as any wealthy owner would, but when he bought Avs, Nuggets, and Arsenal they all have/had modern arenas/stadiums at the time of the purchase. Now, we'll see what happens with the rumours of the next Avs and Nuggets training facilities. If that comes with some sort of real estate project with the blueprint of apartments or some sort of housing then I will concede defeat to you and @willy702

Seriously I still don't understand the constant bitching about Moser when the national broadcasts drive me up the wall. I get it, he's not great, but I also don't think he's anywhere near the homer that a lot of other regional broadcasters are (listened the Leafs radio guys on the way home during that game and holy shit, c'mon). He's no John Forslund, but he's Jack Edwards either.

I also feel like they're trying just a bit too hard on the TNT panel to be just the guys on the NBA TNT panel. Those guys have an easy, built-in chemistry (they also all have personality to spare).

I will say I do like Keith Yandle as an analyst.

I cannot stand Olczyk at his job, but he had a ton of good things to say about the Avs yesterday. I am not sure I am seeing what you guys are seeing here?! Biz bashed the Penguins in the pregame and 1st period about their inconsistency as well. Boucher is the only one that truly sucks on TNT, everyone else is awesome.

 

[redacted]

If he can kill two birds with one stone, he'll do it, but I think he cares about his sports ventures regardless of the real estate that comes with it. He seems like someone who cares more about winning trophies than worrying about his team gaining value. Not that he's opposed to teams rising in value, but I don't think he cared when the Avs were bottom of the barrel at like 300 million. When you're talking about the Rams, it was a team that he wanted to move that had zero stadiums or anything. He was building from the ground up as any wealthy owner would, but when he bought Avs, Nuggets, and Arsenal they all have/had modern arenas/stadiums at the time of the purchase. Now, we'll see what happens with the rumours of the next Avs and Nuggets training facilities. If that comes with some sort of real estate project with the blueprint of apartments or some sort of housing then I will concede defeat to you and @willy702


I cannot stand Olczyk at his job, but he had a ton of good things to say about the Avs yesterday. I am not sure I am seeing what you guys are seeing here?! Biz bashed the Penguins in the pregame and 1st period about their inconsistency as well. Boucher is the only one that truly sucks on TNT, everyone else is awesome.

Look up the River Mile project. Kroenke wants to team up the Avs/Nuggets practice facility with a redevelopment of the parking lots and Elitch's to a mixed use real estate development where they have high rises, green space, and a new practice facility to 'anchor' the teams to Ball Arena. The Avs won't get a new facility until this work is signed off on and ready to go.

 

[Pokecheque]

I cannot stand Olczyk at his job, but he had a ton of good things to say about the Avs yesterday. I am not sure I am seeing what you guys are seeing here?! Biz bashed the Penguins in the pregame and 1st period about their inconsistency as well. Boucher is the only one that truly sucks on TNT, everyone else is awesome.

This is probably an unpopular take--I just don't like Kenny Albert. I can't even tell you why, I just don't like his call. I got a good friend who absolutely despises him, not sure what Kenny did to him, but I don't hate the guy, I just think there are far, far better people on the national side you could use.

Don't get me wrong, I think the TNT production is 10000X better than ESPN's shitshow, but I still prefer Altitude broadcasts.

 

[S E P H]

Look up the River Mile project. Kroenke wants to team up the Avs/Nuggets practice facility with a redevelopment of the parking lots and Elitch's to a mixed use real estate development where they have high rises, green space, and a new practice facility to 'anchor' the teams to Ball Arena. The Avs won't get a new facility until this work is signed off on and ready to go.

I saw some aspects of that project, but I see it more as getting rid of empty space than anything else. I did not see if Avs/Nugs training facilities were part of that project because doesn't that require moving Elitch's to a new area of Denver? If so, then I will concede defeat.

This is probably an unpopular take--I just don't like Kenny Albert. I can't even tell you why, I just don't like his call. I got a good friend who absolutely despises him, not sure what Kenny did to him, but I don't hate the guy, I just think there are far, far better people on the national side you could use.

Don't get me wrong, I think the TNT production is 10000X better than ESPN's shitshow, but I still prefer Altitude broadcasts.

Oh trust me you aren't alone, my mom hates Kenny with a passion and I totally understand it. He's a PxP whose excitement level matches the action, where if the action is meh, then his announcing is meh. However, when the action is great, his call gets better than better. There have been some awesome playoff games that he called and made better due to how awesome the game was. Kenny is very hit-or-miss, but his hits are legendary IMO. One announcer I do prefer over him is Bob Wischusen, he might go over the top at times, but he's very neutral and can make a game sound exciting even if it's 90s Devil vs 00s Wild lol.

 

[Ceremony]

I cannot stand Olczyk at his job, but he had a ton of good things to say about the Avs yesterday. I am not sure I am seeing what you guys are seeing here?! Biz bashed the Penguins in the pregame and 1st period about their inconsistency as well. Boucher is the only one that truly sucks on TNT, everyone else is awesome.

I found them cringeworthy and annoying. Heh heh Biz can't read heh heh Yandle didn't block shots heh heh I'm a giant nerd who's getting to sit with the cool jocks for once I'm going to play dumb to fit in heh heh heh. I'm not listening to these goons try to analyse anything, sorry. Since I don't watch live I rarely watch intermission stuff but I saw some of last night's and I just despair if this is the sort of thing the NHL has representing it.

The game commentary is what it is. The only person on the nationally televised games I've seen over the past however many years who annoys me is Darren Pang because he's a massive Saint Louis fan and because he tries to go holy jumpin! every ten seconds regardless of what's actually happening.

 

[redacted]

I saw some aspects of that project, but I see it more as getting rid of empty space than anything else. I did not see if Avs/Nugs training facilities were part of that project because doesn't that require moving Elitch's to a new area of Denver? If so, then I will concede defeat.

The training facilities are an adjacent project to River Mile (that KSE has a ton into). If River Mile fails, the adjacent project will fail.

Kroenke says upgraded facilities and big changes to Ball Arena will come

Kroenke need to build practice facilities first and quickly ahead of their development projects if we are to trust they care about winning

denversports.com

“There are certain parts of the development that are just going to be slower than others, but this would be one area where I’d think if we focused on it we could get that thing moving faster than some of the other areas involved, whether it’s a high rise or down by the river,” Kroenke said about a practice facility. “ I’ve seen some of the preliminary plans, and we’ve had a lot of meetings about them. But we’re not quite there yet to really show what we’re going to do.”

They are 100% tying the practice facility to the development on the River Mile.

KSE-Ball Arena Redevelopment

visionplan.ballarena.com

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don't mind Moser's calls, he adds local color and flair with his sayings. He uses unconventional terminology for hockey (pitchforking, corkscrewing, guts all over the place) but I don't really mind. What I find annoying is his volume, like Spinal Tap his knob is stuck at 11. I don't need every goal in a Tuesday night matchup in February sounding like the OT winner in game 7 of the SCFs. He's just such a hype machine, but I suppose that's the job and I'm just being an old man.