Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[93LEAFS]

There was political pressure to stay in the Big 12 no doubt. But they knew they would make (at the time a lot) more money in the Pac. The fight they had with the Pac 10 was regarding tier 3 rights. They knew they had a good thing going with LHN and didn't want to lose that for a conference network unless they were going to make more from that, which nobody outside the Big 10 was. Actually I'm not even sure the Big 10 was, LHNs contract was a disaster for ESPN.

Yeah, I don't think Texas was ever in serious play for the Pac-12, while A&M and OU would be big boons, I don't think they move over without Texas to the Pac-12 (they would for SEC). Due to how small a state Oklahoma is, I believe OkSt and OU were also worried about hurting their recruiting in Texas (I know they did well there in the Big 8 era, but Texas never really became wide open recuiting wise until A&M left for the SEC).

I'm a Longhorn fan (just grew up watching VY and its not like Canada has NCAA teams to cheer for). While I do remember talk of the Pac-16 at the time after Nebraska and Colorado left, I actually remember stronger talk about Texas potentially going independent if the LHN was a massive success, as they could demand huge numbers individually for their Tier 1 and tier 2 rights.

 

[HisIceness]

Just looking at this map, I know the NFL and MLB have cross-country conferences but they have divisions that (to an extent) make geographic sense, or in the case of the NFC East is based on historic rivalries.

UCF which is making their "power 5" debut is now conference members with schools from Arizona, Utah, and Colorado. Their closest opponent is in Morgantown West Virginia.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Tonight's Mariners-Angels game is a touching tribute to Pac-12 defenses.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Or Luke should have gone to UW! He played against my -I was in middle school at the time- HS in the state QFs in '96, I was at the game so got to watch him. But exactly, felt the same about Sam.

Puyallup was crazy, even when they didn't have a future D1 QB, they had someone like Darren Erath who went and set records at Western Washington (played for Vikings in HS and College) ... too bad WWU shut down the program.

Hey, as a WWU alumnus, I can proudly say that we have not lost a football game in many years.

 

[Gnashville]

I think the only schools that really make sense for the SEC going forward are UNC, Clemson, Virginia, FSU and Miami. Maybe they find one more to make it 6 when they eventually raid the ACC although no one immediately jumps to mind since I don't see a world where ND joins the SEC. I guess they could take Virginia Tech since I'm sure they want a presence in the DMV but Virginia would give them that anyway.

South Carolina and Florida are very resistant to Florida St and Clemson joining the SEC. UNC and Duke are attached at the hip. SEC may remain at 16 for a while. The SEC considers itself the elite conference in all sports and does consider the “other” sports in its decision making.

 

[HisIceness]

That rivalry is now on the same track as Nebraska/Oklahoma, Pittsburgh/West Virginia etc...

The games may still occur. But it certainly won't feel the same.

Similar to how Texas A&M vs Texas is coming back but both are in the SEC which feels wrong.

 

[93LEAFS]

South Carolina and Florida are very resistant to Florida St and Clemson joining the SEC. UNC and Duke are attached at the hip. SEC may remain at 16 for a while. The SEC considers itself the elite conference in all sports and does consider the “other” sports in its decision making.

I have a hard time seeing Duke getting in, although having UNC, Duke and UK make it packed with blueblood basketball teams.

I believe A&M really didn't want Texas getting into the SEC (part of the reason they jumped from the Big 12 was how they felt Texas wasn't a partner, but a dictator), but the SEC broke on that just due to the revenue they add to the TV deals. Now, Florida likely has more pull within the SEC than A&M had as a founding member.

 

[mouser]

Yeah, I don't think Texas was ever in serious play for the Pac-12, while A&M and OU would be big boons, I don't think they move over without Texas to the Pac-12 (they would for SEC). Due to how small a state Oklahoma is, I believe OkSt and OU were also worried about hurting their recruiting in Texas (I know they did well there in the Big 8 era, but Texas never really became wide open recuiting wise until A&M left for the SEC).

I'm a Longhorn fan (just grew up watching VY and it’s not like Canada has NCAA teams to cheer for). While I do remember talk of the Pac-16 at the time after Nebraska and Colorado left, I actually remember stronger talk about Texas potentially going independent if the LHN was a massive success, as they could demand huge numbers individually for their Tier 1 and tier 2 rights.

I agree Texas to the PAC was never realistic. They were moving SEC or B1G.

I am curious how serious a possible Texas to the B1G was. My recollection of the media articles at the time that Texas maintaining their own longhorn network was a no-go dealbreaker for the Big Ten.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I agree Texas to the PAC was never realistic. They were moving SEC or B1G.

I am curious how serious a possible Texas to the B1G was. My recollection of the media articles at the time that Texas maintaining their own longhorn network was a no-go dealbreaker for the Big Ten.

Yeah, that was almost assuredly the key. The Big Ten’s interest is in adding to BTN, having a separate Longhorns channel would’ve been a fundamental break if that strategy, and there’d be no way that the Big Ten schools would’ve gone along with sharing their pie with Texas under that circumstance unless Texas shared the lion’s share of their’s with the conference, which was a set-up that would’ve just pissed off everyone.

 

[mouser]

South Carolina and Florida are very resistant to Florida St and Clemson joining the SEC. UNC and Duke are attached at the hip. SEC may remain at 16 for a while. The SEC considers itself the elite conference in all sports and does consider the “other” sports in its decision making.

There‘s no legal requirement that Duke and UNC have to be in the same conference, or subject to the same Board of Regents like ASU and Arizona are.

UNC is a much more desirable addition for the SEC or B1G vs Duke.

 

[93LEAFS]

I agree Texas to the PAC was never realistic. They were moving SEC or B1G.

I am curious how serious a possible Texas to the B1G was. My recollection of the media articles at the time that Texas maintaining their own longhorn network was a no-go dealbreaker for the Big Ten.

Yeah, that was almost assuredly the key. The Big Ten’s interest is in adding to BTN, having a separate Longhorns channel would’ve been a fundamental break if that strategy, and there’d be no way that the Big Ten schools would’ve gone along with sharing their pie with Texas under that circumstance unless Texas shared the lion’s share of their’s with the conference, which was a set-up that would’ve just pissed off everyone.

I believe Texas wanted to stay with OU to keep the Red River Shootout, and I don't think OU was ever a big target for the Big Ten because it's not highly regarded academically (it's not an AAU school, and the only Big 10 member who isn't is Nebraska who was when they were let it). SEC just made more sense, joining with OU, Texas keeps its biggest rival, and gets back it's two other biggest rivals (Arkansas and A&M). Plus, recruiting wise, the SEC is better situated for them, they've been trying to make inroads into Florida and Louisana for years, since Texas became more open as a state for recruiting when A&M left to the SEC. While top Texas talent would occasionally leave the Big 12 previously for other schools like Matt Stafford going to Georgia or Ryan Mallett going to Michigan, until about 2013 Texas kept most of the in-state kids they wanted, whereas now LSU, Ohio St and Bama have been walking in with great success.

 

[Reaser]

Similar to how Texas A&M vs Texas is coming back but both are in the SEC which feels wrong.

Yup, used to be two NFL games and UT v. A&M on Thanksgiving (was also years ABC had the game on Black Friday.) Now NFL owns Thanksgiving even more with the 3 games and the college Thanksgiving game has been the SEC's own Egg Bowl -- which has had enough of it's own moments in recent history to claim that 'tradition'. So however it's scheduled, multiple things aren't going to feel the same, up to and including the span of time between playing eachother. All the now alumni that never saw that football game, not the same to them as it is to the old-timers which means it won't be the same going forward.

 

[mouser]

I believe Texas wanted to stay with OU to keep the Red River Shootout, and I don't think OU was ever a big target for the Big Ten because it's not highly regarded academically (it's not an AAU school, and the only Big 10 member who isn't is Nebraska who was when they were let it). SEC just made more sense, joining with OU, Texas keeps its biggest rival, and gets back it's two other biggest rivals (Arkansas and A&M). Plus, recruiting wise, the SEC is better situated for them, they've been trying to make inroads into Florida and Louisana for years, since Texas became more open as a state for recruiting when A&M left to the SEC. While top Texas talent would occasionally leave the Big 12 previously for other schools like Matt Stafford going to Georgia or Ryan Mallett going to Michigan, until about 2013 Texas kept most of the in-state kids they wanted, whereas now LSU, Ohio St and Bama have been walking in with great success.

Oklahoma was never high on the B1G’s list imo.

Texas will do fine in the SEC, they have the money and recruiting base to be a high end contender.

Oklahoma gets the great $’s for joining the SEC, but the move will hurt them competitively. Instead of being the top 1/2 football school in the Big 12 they’re now facing schools like Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Texas, Florida and Texas A&M to fight for 3rd to 9th behind Alabama and Georgia.

Oklahoma has 18 seasons of 10+ wins since 2000. Lots of 9 win or less seasons in the future with the SEC is likely to happen.

 

[MMC]

 

[MMC]

Is a grown man wanting the local university to play their traditional rivals in their traditional conference more cringeworthy than a grown man rooting for kids from a school he has no connection to that's on the other side of the country?

Could be. Regardless. Depends where/when you grew up and the why for any feelings about 'your' conference.

The SEC thing is largely schools -particularly the ones that never win anything- that didn't win trying to prop themselves up by acting like "they" won because a school from their conference won.

That's a totally different thing from say, fans of the original Big East being disappointed when the conference fell apart/realignment because they loved their basketball league and the rivalries and knew they'd miss it. Or say, Pac-[x] fans being disappointed in losing all the tradition and rivalries they had.

I never really rooted for the Pac-[x] as a conference but kids my age in my town all had the similar dream of wanting to play in the Pac-10, because that was CFB on this side of the country, and more importantly win the Pac-10 because that meant playing in the Rose Bowl. Which, the Rose Bowl was what mattered college sports wise on this side of the country.

So again, depends where/when/how you grew up. If you grew up on the west coast and liked college football during the time that the Rose Bowl was truly The Granddaddy of Them All then I wouldn't be surprised by those people to having some feelings about the conference dying -- even if college football traditions have long been messed up around the country well before now. When it's 'your' traditions, it, as they say, hits home.

A grown man having emotional attachment to a corporate entity that exists to make money and is not serving the interests of either it’s fans or members is cringeworthy regardless of whether it includes traditional rivals or schools across the country

 

[GKJ]

A grown man having emotional attachment to a corporate entity that exists to make money and is not serving the interests of either it’s fans or members is cringeworthy regardless of whether it includes traditional rivals or schools across the country

Yeah, some people choose to have a much fonder view of their youth and college experiences than this given how much gets invested in them.

 

[MMC]

Yeah, some people choose to have a much fonder view of their youth and college experiences than this given how much gets invested in them.

I'm just saying I don't see why the death of the Pac-12 (or any conference) is anything to get upset about. It's a corporate body that really hasn't produced anything positive in quite some time now. I've been watching UCLA sports my whole life and never developed any sort of loyalty or fandom towards it. I wasn't actively shitting on it or wanting UCLA to leave before they did but it's insane to me that people feel legitimate sadness towards seeing it go. I get why Wazzu or OSU fans would be because those schools will probably never have the prestige they did in a conference with schools like USC and UCLA, but for fans of any of the schools able to jump ship I don't see how anything of value is being lost. I'm more sad about Bed Bath and Beyond dying and I couldn't tell you the last time I went in one of those.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I'm just saying I don't see why the death of the Pac-12 (or any conference) is anything to get upset about. It's a corporate body that really hasn't produced anything positive in quite some time now. I've been watching UCLA sports my whole life and never developed any sort of loyalty or fandom towards it. I wasn't actively shitting on it or wanting UCLA to leave before they did but it's insane to me that people feel legitimate sadness towards seeing it go. I get why Wazzu or OSU fans would be because those schools will probably never have the prestige they did in a conference with schools like USC and UCLA, but for fans of any of the schools able to jump ship I don't see how anything of value is being lost. I'm more sad about Bed Bath and Beyond dying and I couldn't tell you the last time I went in one of those.

Would you be upset, or understand others being upset, if the NHL collapsed even if the team you liked and a handful of others formed a new league? Or heck, remember the continental rage out of Europe when the idea of a soccer superleague was floated?

People have emptional attachments to things that they've gown accustomed to. Psychologists that listened in to complaints to Coca-Cola after they brought out Coke 2 reported that the callers sounded like they were people that had just lost family members, and that was over a soda.

Pac-12 was a brand important to millions of people. Their anger and disappointment is entirely understandable. After all, fandom has never been logical, but it's the reason why any of us care about sports and why they're a big business.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

You'd have a short list of power five schools that wouldn't get picked ahead of Northwestern if the Big Ten was a new idea.

I'd argue that list consist of only one certain school in New Jersey.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I'd argue that list consist of only one certain school in New Jersey.

Princeton!

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm just saying I don't see why the death of the Pac-12 (or any conference) is anything to get upset about. It's a corporate body that really hasn't produced anything positive in quite some time now. I've been watching UCLA sports my whole life and never developed any sort of loyalty or fandom towards it. I wasn't actively shitting on it or wanting UCLA to leave before they did but it's insane to me that people feel legitimate sadness towards seeing it go. I get why Wazzu or OSU fans would be because those schools will probably never have the prestige they did in a conference with schools like USC and UCLA, but for fans of any of the schools able to jump ship I don't see how anything of value is being lost. I'm more sad about Bed Bath and Beyond dying and I couldn't tell you the last time I went in one of those.

Let me try - I f***ing hate the Pac-12 *because* I love the teams in the Pac-12. I love the matches (not just football), and the corporate structure has sucked ass for two decades to cause this to happen. It's aggravating.

And you can say I'm holding onto "a fond view of college experience" or whatever - I didn't go to a Pac-12 school. Well, I went to grad school at a school that became Pac-12 after I finished, but I don't root for them in football. The Pac-10 gives me great memories of growing up watching games with my parents, both of whom are now dead. It's not particularly any different for me than, say, rooting for the Seattle Kraken (and I'm super glad that my mom got to see Kraken playoff hockey before she died).

And I'm sad that it's ending.

 

[LadyStanley]

Missouri's Eli Drinkwitz asks a good question about athletes' mental health after Big Ten's latest expansion

"I thought the transfer window, I thought the portal was closed. Oh, that's just for the student-athletes."

sports.yahoo.com

SEC coach rants about the unintended impacts on players who will have a lot more travel.

 

[BKarchitect]

Missouri's Eli Drinkwitz asks a good question about athletes' mental health after Big Ten's latest expansion

"I thought the transfer window, I thought the portal was closed. Oh, that's just for the student-athletes."

sports.yahoo.com

SEC coach rants about the unintended impacts on players who will have a lot more travel.

He’s not wrong and yet coming from the football coach of an institution that fled from a hundred years of history to chase money and be such a doormat afterthought in their new conference that people barely know they exist - all for the green and so that he can be paid like an SEC coach and so that his football team can get SEC benefits…I’m not sure his pulpit is the sturdiest to be preaching from.

 

[mouser]

He’s not wrong and yet coming from the football coach of an institution that fled from a hundred years of history to chase money and be such a doormat afterthought in their new conference that people barely know they exist - all for the green and so that he can be paid like an SEC coach and so that his football team can get SEC benefits…I’m not sure his pulpit is the sturdiest to be preaching from.

I recall Missouri begging the B1G to accept them and being given the cold shoulder.

 

[mouser]

Searching for good articles on how the PAC12 arrived at this collapse. One of the better ones I’ve come across so far:

The Arrogance and Incompetence Destroying a Cornerstone of College Sports

Why a powerhouse league is on its deathbed.

slate.com