Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[Reaser]

I will never understand fans feeling some type of loyalty to a particular conference. It's honestly one of the most cringeworthy things I see grown men doing in the professional sports world. I am a UCLA (mom went there, watched them growing up) and Georgia (bandwagon adopted in high school because I wanted a top football program to cheer for along with UCLA in basketball) and I could give a f*** less where either played. I actually prefer the Big Ten and their matchups for UCLA

Is a grown man wanting the local university to play their traditional rivals in their traditional conference more cringeworthy than a grown man rooting for kids from a school he has no connection to that's on the other side of the country?

Could be. Regardless. Depends where/when you grew up and the why for any feelings about 'your' conference.

The SEC thing is largely schools -particularly the ones that never win anything- that didn't win trying to prop themselves up by acting like "they" won because a school from their conference won.

That's a totally different thing from say, fans of the original Big East being disappointed when the conference fell apart/realignment because they loved their basketball league and the rivalries and knew they'd miss it. Or say, Pac-[x] fans being disappointed in losing all the tradition and rivalries they had.

I never really rooted for the Pac-[x] as a conference but kids my age in my town all had the similar dream of wanting to play in the Pac-10, because that was CFB on this side of the country, and more importantly win the Pac-10 because that meant playing in the Rose Bowl. Which, the Rose Bowl was what mattered college sports wise on this side of the country.

So again, depends where/when/how you grew up. If you grew up on the west coast and liked college football during the time that the Rose Bowl was truly The Granddaddy of Them All then I wouldn't be surprised by those people to having some feelings about the conference dying -- even if college football traditions have long been messed up around the country well before now. When it's 'your' traditions, it, as they say, hits home.

 

[GKJ]

I think there would be a lot of internal fighting involving the courts when it gets to that point.

When these super conferences defect from the NCAA and a bunch of other schools follow then to a new banner, the process just starts over

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Just a reminder, just because they haven't moved into the Bay Area yet doesn't mean that they won't. There are a lot of moving parts there.

I think the only schools that really make sense for the SEC going forward are UNC, Clemson, Virginia, FSU and Miami. Maybe they find one more to make it 6 when they eventually raid the ACC although no one immediately jumps to mind since I don't see a world where ND joins the SEC. I guess they could take Virginia Tech since I'm sure they want a presence in the DMV but Virginia would give them that anyway.

The thing to remember is that this is all about market expansion, and the SEC already has footprints in South Carolina and Florida. I doubt FSU, Miami, or Clemson are on their radar.

As for Virginia and North Carolina, my hunch is that UNC and UVA will go to the Big Ten while NC State and Virginia Tech go to the SEC when it's all said and done.

 

[GKJ]

Just a reminder, just because they haven't moved into the Bay Area yet doesn't mean that they won't. There are a lot of moving parts there.



The thing to remember is that this is all about market expansion, and the SEC already has footprints in South Carolina and Florida. I doubt FSU, Miami, or Clemson are on their radar.

As for Virginia and North Carolina, my hunch is that UNC and UVA will go to the Big Ten while NC State and Virginia Tech go to the SEC when it's all said and done.

I think given their success, Clemson is a different situation compared to Florida schools (Miami is different than the others though).

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I think given their success, Clemson is a different situation compared to Florida schools (Miami is different than the others though).

That's actually slightly against them. Double-dipping in a small (or not large, I mean) state aside, would the Gamecocks want to share the SEC in-state with an obviously more successful bigger brother in Clemson?

 

[GKJ]

That's actually slightly against them. Double-dipping in a small (or not large, I mean) state aside, would the Gamecocks want to share the SEC in-state with an obviously more successful bigger brother in Clemson?

Do they wield enough power to keep them out if they want to? I don’t know how wide Clemson’s reach is in their region, but they’ve demonstrated the ability to out-perform it nationally. I’d imagine they’d want to make their move before Dabo retires/leaves and run risk of the program dropping off.

 

[BKarchitect]

Just a reminder, just because they haven't moved into the Bay Area yet doesn't mean that they won't. There are a lot of moving parts there.



The thing to remember is that this is all about market expansion, and the SEC already has footprints in South Carolina and Florida. I doubt FSU, Miami, or Clemson are on their radar.

As for Virginia and North Carolina, my hunch is that UNC and UVA will go to the Big Ten while NC State and Virginia Tech go to the SEC when it's all said and done.

I agree regarding Clemson and FSU - I think they are B1G bound. Clemson ain’t AAU but I think their football brand is too big and add FSU and Clemson together makes a statement for the B1G regarding the Southeast. They could take Miami as well. I guess GaTech may be viable for location and academics. You can’t go into the SEC’s territory with one school in your portfolio. They are going to have to plant their flag with intent to create a true front in their rivalry with the SEC.

I however think UNC and UVA - particularly UNC - are the #1 targets for the SEC. I think both schools are wanted by both conferences but I think UNC is a real statement of intent for the SEC. The brand, the location, the academics, the hoops to pair with Kentucky. Doesn’t mean the SEC will get them but I think deep down they are the apple of the SEC’s eye. And UVA for many of the same reasons but to a lesser degree. I think the SEC master plan is to compete not just as a football conference but on every level as a peer to the B1G. I’m not sure VaTech and NC State move the needle in overall effect.

 

[GKJ]

I don’t know why Virginia is so attractive apart from recent basketball success compared to Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech is not AAU, but it’s still a good school and other than the mentioned, has regularly out-performed Virginia in football. That’s even with VA Tech being down. They’ve been more the ‘DMV’ school than Virginia, and at times has reached further.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Do they wield enough power to keep them out if they want to? I don’t know how wide Clemson’s reach is in their region, but they’ve demonstrated the ability to out-perform it nationally. I’d imagine they’d want to make their move before Dabo retires/leaves and run risk of the program dropping off.

Don't know, but hankering a guess they'd at least try to out up roadblocks.

Plus, competitiveness isn't the driving factor, it's doubling down on market expansion. Clemson just doesn't bring more eyeballs to the SEC from a media perspective, unless there's a more nebulous distinction that all the elite programs and Vanderbilt play there.

I agree regarding Clemson and FSU - I think they are B1G bound. Clemson ain’t AAU but I think their football brand is too big and add FSU and Clemson together makes a statement for the B1G regarding the Southeast. They could take Miami as well. I guess GaTech may be viable for location and academics. You can’t go into the SEC’s territory with one school in your portfolio. They are going to have to plant their flag with intent to create a true front in their rivalry with the SEC.

I however think UNC and UVA - particularly UNC - are the #1 targets for the SEC. I think both schools are wanted by both conferences but I think UNC is a real statement of intent for the SEC. The brand, the location, the academics, the hoops to pair with Kentucky. Doesn’t mean the SEC will get them but I think deep down they are the apple of the SEC’s eye. And UVA for many of the same reasons but to a lesser degree. I think the SEC master plan is to compete not just as a football conference but on every level as a peer to the B1G. I’m not sure VaTech and NC State move the needle in overall effect.

Very possible. I think Big Ten money is the bigger factor, though. As superior as the SEC is on the field, the BTN is the gorilla in the room more than even the SEC's relationship with ESPN.

 

[DaveG]

I think the only hope for Wazzu and OSU is if ESPN agrees to 17 & 18 in the Big 12 just to keep a presence on the West Coast because as of now, Fox owns the Pacific Time zone completely. And then Wazzu and OSU would have to take a considerable less than the full amount from the Big 12.

Part of me kinda wants to be like “screw it - let’s keep the continuity and let’s give the good fans in Pullman and Corvallis a break here and keep them at the table”. Looking at those schools and those college towns is like looking in a mirror for more than a few original Big 12 schools and what might have been their fate in an alternate world - I think their fanbases would absolutely fit.

I don’t think that’s gonna happen though.

Those are the only two programs I feel sorry for in this whole mess, Wazzu and the Beavs. From everything I've read Cal and Stanford did more than enough to torpedo any kind of expansion into Big 12 territory that could have saved the conference.

The first re-alignment bloodbath the Pac had every chance to offer OU, OSU, Texas, and A&M, they passed. A&M and Missouri to the SEC and Colorado and Utah go to the PAC instead. Big 12 backfills with TCU and plucks West Virginia after the ACC destroys what was left of the Big East by taking Pitt and Syracuse. From what I've heard from some SC fans I know they were pushing for a move to 16 but Cal/Stanford, and a couple others had no interest in adding the other 4 schools mostly due to Longhorn Network and this issues that would have been involved in getting rid of that to create a conference network.

Time two - the one where the Pac REALLY could have killed the Big 12. Texas and OU are gone to the SEC. Pac could easily grab Kansas, Oklahoma State, TCU, and Texas Tech leaving the Big 12 as basically the American with fan support. They say no, though IIRC USC and UCLA were one foot out the door already for the B1G and didn't support it this time.

There was also a meeting between the Pac 12 commish and the old Big 12 commish Bowlsby that discussed merging the two conferences that nothing came of.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I don’t know why Virginia is so attractive apart from recent basketball success compared to Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech is not AAU, but it’s still a good school and other than the mentioned, has regularly out-performed Virginia in football. That’s even with VA Tech being down. They’ve been more the ‘DMV’ school than Virginia, and at times has reached further.

I think that's a factor for the SEC being more Virginia Tech oriented while the Big Ten is more UVA-bound. Both are expansions, but UVA is a huge academic and historical legacy addon for the Big Ten, which is a big deal for the conference.

 

[mouser]

I think the logic is that they're already in California now with the two LA area teams and judging by Cal and Stanford's attendance nobody really gives a damn about college football in that area. Oregon gets you into a sizable state even if it has no true major markets, and has a diehard fanbase, plus the Nike money. Washington is Washington, that one always made sense.

Agree. I don’t profess to be an expert on the Bay Area media market share, but my impression is Stanford and Cal don’t carry a lot of media weight. UCLA and USC should already pull in a large chunk of the Bay Area media share. How much incremental share do Stanford and/or Cal add on top of that? My guess is not enough to be a priority for the B1G.

 

[GKJ]

Agree. I don’t profess to be an expert on the Bay Area media market share, but my impression is Stanford and Cal don’t carry a lot of media weight. UCLA and USC should already pull in a large chunk of the Bay Area media share. How much incremental share do Stanford and/or Cal add on top of that? My guess is not enough to be a priority for the B1G.

It’s funny when you think about how the Pac 12 tried to build their HQ there.

 

[BKarchitect]

Virginia is simply a much more historically prestigious school than Tech. I’m not saying that looking down on anybody at all - a degree from my local JUCO could be just as useful at this point. Just saying historically and in terms of what these higher ups care about - UVA has a lot of weight. We may snicker that it’s campus designed by Thomas Jefferson is meaningless in college athletics but as silly as it sounds, that kind of legacy ultimately matters to the decision makers. Nobody is adding them to be a stellar football program. But that has never truly mattered as some make it out to be.

The B1G is an obvious fit. Which is why I think the SEC will go full press to steal them and and UNC.

 

[BKarchitect]

@MMC anyway we can just have a new business of NCAA realignment combined thread? I think all this is related. And fascinating.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm going to miss the Apple Cup very much.

I'm also one of the few UW fans who roots for WSU when they aren't playing UW.

 

[red devil]

 

[DaveG]

Virginia is simply a much more historically prestigious school than Tech. I’m not saying that looking down on anybody at all - a degree from my local JUCO could be just as useful at this point. Just saying historically and in terms of what these higher ups care about - UVA has a lot of weight. We may snicker that it’s campus designed by Thomas Jefferson is meaningless in college athletics but as silly as it sounds, that kind of legacy ultimately matters to the decision makers. Nobody is adding them to be a stellar football program. But that has never truly mattered as some make it out to be.

The B1G is an obvious fit. Which is why I think the SEC will go full press to steal them and and UNC.

Yep. In terms of viewers and fan passion VT blows them out of the water. But in the end it's still presidents of universities (with some input from TV execs) that are making these decisions, not athletics directors. The university presidents, especially in the B1G, would much rather bring in the "public ivy" that still brings the same amount of TV sets in the given state for subscriber fees, even if the other school brings more eyes.

 

[red devil]

I'm going to miss the Apple Cup very much.

I'm also one of the few UW fans who roots for WSU when they aren't playing UW.

In the statement from Washington they want to keep the Apple Cup. It could be lip service but we will find out over the next few years.

 

[gstommylee]

In the statement from Washington they want to keep the Apple Cup. It could be lip service but we will find out over the next few years.

its lip service.. the $$ between both schools is going to be a huge gap there will never be a competitive match again.

When these super conferences defect from the NCAA and a bunch of other schools follow then to a new banner, the process just starts over

Wouldn't matter if they defect from the NCAA or not. What matter is what the courts think of it if ithe courts end up getting involved in this mess. If the court deemed these super conference as a violating of the sherman act, the conferences will be split up.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Malapropism intended, I’ll see it when I believe it.

 

[gstommylee]

Malapropism intended, I’ll see it when I believe it.

No one's going to care about some meaningless match with no implications on the standings/rankings/ tournament or bowl games. etc

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

If OrSU and WSU get accepted into the Big 12 and make it 18 I think the Big 12 enters into a sub-licensing agreement with CBS Sports to lessen the load on ESPN and Fox. This would include a featured noon game on CBS most Saturdays (a primetime game is aired instead when the noon slot has an Air Force CIC Trophy game) leading into the Big Ten broadcasts, plus games on Paramount Network and Paramount+.

BYU and Utah are well-acquainted with CBS Sports. In their last five years as MW members they appeared often on the network now known as CBS Sports Network. In addition, CBS co-owned an RSN dedicated to the MW in this time. Paramount Network would be used as the cable outlet and not CBSSN because the former is in more homes.

Additionally, UCF appeared on CBSSN multiple times as a C-USA and American school, and Cincinnati has also been on CBSSN multiple times as an American school.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Oh wait, if the Big Ten sticks at 18, then the geographic split would cut through Illinois, leaving it up in the air in regard to which division that the Illini are in….

Oy….

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Oh wait, if the Big Ten sticks at 18, then the geographic split would cut through Illinois, leaving it up in the air in regard to which division that the Illini are in….

Oy….

The Big Ten won't be doing divisions anymore after this season.