Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[Bear of Bad News]

No one's going to care about some meaningless match with no implications on the standings/rankings/ tournament or bowl games. etc

I’ll care.

 

[93LEAFS]

Those are the only two programs I feel sorry for in this whole mess, Wazzu and the Beavs. From everything I've read Cal and Stanford did more than enough to torpedo any kind of expansion into Big 12 territory that could have saved the conference.

The first re-alignment bloodbath the Pac had every chance to offer OU, OSU, Texas, and A&M, they passed. A&M and Missouri to the SEC and Colorado and Utah go to the PAC instead. Big 12 backfills with TCU and plucks West Virginia after the ACC destroys what was left of the Big East by taking Pitt and Syracuse. From what I've heard from some SC fans I know they were pushing for a move to 16 but Cal/Stanford, and a couple others had no interest in adding the other 4 schools mostly due to Longhorn Network and this issues that would have been involved in getting rid of that to create a conference network.

Time two - the one where the Pac REALLY could have killed the Big 12. Texas and OU are gone to the SEC. Pac could easily grab Kansas, Oklahoma State, TCU, and Texas Tech leaving the Big 12 as basically the American with fan support. They say no, though IIRC USC and UCLA were one foot out the door already for the B1G and didn't support it this time.

There was also a meeting between the Pac 12 commish and the old Big 12 commish Bowlsby that discussed merging the two conferences that nothing came of.

Didn't the Pac make overtures to Texas (I believe they would have came with OU, and maybe A&M and OkSt), but Texas thought they'd make more money with the Longhorns network and told them that, plus I believe there was political pressure at that time to stay in the Big 12 to not kill off the other Texas schools as P5 teams. I believe this was in 2010 or so, right before A&M and Missouri jumped.

I could be wrong, but I believe that deal was predicated on Texas (which while A&M and OU are big programs, football wise, Texas despite their struggles are maybe the biggest crown jewel outside of ND) and Texas due to a variety reasons (political, potential revenue from Longhorn Network etc.) was non-commital.

 

[red devil]

 

[mouser]

Oh wait, if the Big Ten sticks at 18, then the geographic split would cut through Illinois, leaving it up in the air in regard to which division that the Illini are in….

Oy….

Big Ten (and I assume all conferences) are getting rid of divisions.

NCAA changed the conference championship football game rules last year so each conference can now decide on how to select their two participants without the requirement of two divisions.

 

[mouser]

UConn fans are crying. The PAC implosion may have torpedoed their dreams of joining the Big 12.

 

[DaveG]

Didn't the Pac make overtures to Texas (I believe they would have came with OU, and maybe A&M and OkSt), but Texas thought they'd make more money with the Longhorns network and told them that, plus I believe there was political pressure at that time to stay in the Big 12 to not kill off the other Texas schools as P5 teams. I believe this was in 2010 or so, right before A&M and Missouri jumped.

I could be wrong, but I believe that deal was predicated on Texas (which while A&M and OU are big programs, football wise, Texas despite their struggles are maybe the biggest crown jewel outside of ND) and Texas due to a variety reasons (political, potential revenue from Longhorn Network etc.) was non-commital.

There was political pressure to stay in the Big 12 no doubt. But they knew they would make (at the time a lot) more money in the Pac. The fight they had with the Pac 10 was regarding tier 3 rights. They knew they had a good thing going with LHN and didn't want to lose that for a conference network unless they were going to make more from that, which nobody outside the Big 10 was. Actually I'm not even sure the Big 10 was, LHNs contract was a disaster for ESPN.

 

[BKarchitect]

UConn fans are crying. The PAC implosion may have torpedoed their dreams of joining the Big 12.

Still murmurs that Yormark has the go ahead to get to 18 if the media partners will dance.

Unsure if that means Wazzu and the Beavers in some version of what is being discussed above or - I would think more likely - the notion that the Mountain expansion would be balanced by an agreement to fortify the Eastern flank and get Yormark where he really wants to go and to further stock the hoops library. In which case UConn and perhaps Memphis would still be in play.

I think it’s a long-shot to happen anytime soon though - I think a lot depends on how the drama in the ACC unfolds down the line.

In the meantime, this is gonna be a fun league. Who would have thunk a Big 12 official footer would exist let alone contain the logos below a few years ago?

 

[DaveG]

UConn fans are crying. The PAC implosion may have torpedoed their dreams of joining the Big 12.

Unfortunately even as a New England guy I don't think UConn would ever have flown for some of the Big 12 presidents as a full member even if Yormark was pushing hard for it.

There is a shot that they could be an Olympic sport only addition along with Gonzaga, and that actually would make a lot of sense to get into the PNW and New England markets with the biggest non football college sports brands in either market.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

UConn fans are crying. The PAC implosion may have torpedoed their dreams of joining the Big 12.

There's always the next realignment cycle. That may be my best hope for my wish that they and Boise State, Memphis, South Florida, SMU, Temple, and Tulane to join.

 

[red devil]

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Unfortunately even as a New England guy I don't think UConn would ever have flown for some of the Big 12 presidents as a full member even if Yormark was pushing hard for it.

There is a shot that they could be an Olympic sport only addition along with Gonzaga, and that actually would make a lot of sense to get into the PNW and New England markets with the biggest non football sports brands in either market.

I don't want any full members in the Big 12 for just non-football sports. Gonzaga would be better off in a new conference that also includes current Big East members Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, and Xavier, current A-10 members Dayton, Loyola (Chicago) and Saint Louis, Detroit Mercy of the Horizon League, Valparaiso of the MVC, and WCC rival Saint Mary's. ESPN would love to be involved with such a conference especially now that they severed ties with the Big Ten.

 

[BKarchitect]

It’s just sad reading PAC bulletins at this point.

I’m sure in some kind of PAC/MW merger they’ll keep the PAC branding for the history but it’s just weird. I kind of think they should just relegate it to the history books.

I actually think a 16-team G5 with the Mountain West schools grabbing Cal, OrSt, Wazzu and SMU would be pretty fun and sensible sports league. Stanford going indy of course.

West: Cal, Oregon State, Wazzu, SDST, San Jose, Fresno St, Nevada, Hawaii

Mountain: UNLV, Colorado St, Boise St, Utah St, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico, SMU

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I could also see New Mexico joining the Big 12 in the next realignment cycle so that each Four Corners state has its flagship institution in the conference. Decent basketball program.

 

[BKarchitect]

I could also see New Mexico joining the Big 12 in the next realignment cycle so that each Four Corners state has its flagship institution in the conference. Decent basketball program.

I think your general line of thinking is great and inclusive - I don’t think the final arrangement will be that way though. I also don’t think UNM is going to move the needle enough. UConn and Memphis down the road maybe.

The Pit is a freaking great college basketball venue though.

 

[Reaser]

I'm going to miss the Apple Cup very much.

I'm also one of the few UW fans who roots for WSU when they aren't playing UW.

Yup. People outside The Great State of Washington don't understand how big of a deal the Apple Cup is here. Which sums up a lot of people not understanding a big part of what makes college football great (tradition.) While they're getting all excited about UCLA-Rutgers, we'll be missing the Apple Cup (and Civil War for that matter.)

My Grandma only watched one game a year, the Apple Cup. Only watched any bowl games if it was the Rose Bowl and UW was in it.

Funny, my fam has two who graduated from Wazzu and one who is about to start her Soph year there. No one went to UW (other colleges in Western WA or in my case, JUCO Football in Phoenix) but besides those three, everyone in my family is a UW fan. Get a lot of "we actually went to Wazzu!" at family gatherings, it's great. I'm the only one who roots for both -"neither recruited me"- and come the Apple Cup, root[ed] for whoever the win helps more. Unless all things equal, then lean UW since we're all from this side of the state.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I can still vividly recall game events of about twenty different Apple Cups just sitting here thinking about it.

Current favorite is probably 2002:

Ten years ago, Huskies won a wild Apple Cup in Pullman

In 2002, the Huskies beat Washington State 29-26 in Pullman in triple overtime, ending the Cougars' national-title hopes. The game was the last for Mike Price at WSU and Rick Neuheisel at Washington.

www.seattletimes.com

Watching from a hotel room in western South Dakota after coaching hockey.

 

[Reaser]

I can still vividly recall game events of about twenty different Apple Cups just sitting here thinking about it.

Current favorite is probably 2002:

Ten years ago, Huskies won a wild Apple Cup in Pullman

In 2002, the Huskies beat Washington State 29-26 in Pullman in triple overtime, ending the Cougars' national-title hopes. The game was the last for Mike Price at WSU and Rick Neuheisel at Washington.

www.seattletimes.com

Watching from a hotel room in western South Dakota after coaching hockey.

Yup! Or 10 years earlier for the Cougs side, Bledsoe to Bobo in the snow was legendary.

2002 game was great. Nate Robinson Fr year -- he was same class as me, our HS leagues were scheduled to play 1st round of the state playoffs the year prior so if they, or we, would have finished 2nd instead of both winning our leagues (1 v. 2, 1 v. 2 for the two Metro League v. our league 1st rd matchups) would have got to play against him. I did play against Reggie Williams in 7on7 though, or "passing league" as we called it back then, at UPS.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Yup! Or 10 years earlier for the Cougs side, Bledsoe to Bobo in the snow was legendary.

2002 game was great. Nate Robinson Fr year -- he was same class as me, our HS leagues were scheduled to play 1st round of the state playoffs the year prior so if they, or we, would have finished 2nd instead of both winning our leagues (1 v. 2, 1 v. 2 for the two Metro League v. our league 1st rd matchups) would have got to play against him. I did play against Reggie Williams in 7on7 though, or "passing league" as we called it back then, at UPS.

The guy that railed me in high school was Singor Mobley:

Singor Mobley - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was sure he had pro potential - that kid was a damn tank.

1992 was fun in retrospect, but I was hoping for another top finish before Billy Joe Hobert and team got screwed by USC/UCLA ("Pac 9") and caused Don James to go into retirement. (Yes, Hobert should have known better.)

 

[Reaser]

1992 was fun in retrospect, but I was hoping for another top finish before Billy Joe Hobert and team got screwed by USC/UCLA ("Pac 9") and caused Don James to go into retirement.

^ - Great example of conference history!

(side note: all the Puyallup QBs back then!)

My Uncle hated Nick Saban until I told him he played for Don James at Kent State. Immediately changed his opinion, ha. The Dawgfather is revered around these parts.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

^ - Great example of conference history!

(side note: all the Puyallup QBs back then!)

My Uncle hated Nick Saban until I told him he played for Don James at Kent State. Immediately changed his opinion, ha. The Dawgfather is revered around these parts.

Puyallup HS was absolutely nuts, and that's even if you count only Huards (and I always felt Sam should have gone to Puyallup instead of Kennedy).

I have a complicated relationship with Saban but I do love that he's part of the James tree. I used to have all of the Dawgfather posters up.

 

[TheLegend]

 

[mouser]

Puyallup HS was absolutely nuts, and that's even if you count only Huards (and I always felt Sam should have gone to Puyallup instead of Kennedy).

I have a complicated relationship with Saban but I do love that he's part of the James tree. I used to have all of the Dawgfather posters up.

Nick Saban departed my alma mater in the middle of the night on a private jet plane for a $3m/year deal with LSU.

Awesome recruiter. Total mercenary. Still bitter.

 

[joelef]

Nick Saban departed my alma mater in the middle of the night on a private jet plane for a $3m/year deal with LSU.

Awesome recruiter. Total mercenary. Still bitter.

But but but anatuerism

 

[Reality Check]

Yup. People outside The Great State of Washington don't understand how big of a deal the Apple Cup is here. Which sums up a lot of people not understanding a big part of what makes college football great (tradition.) While they're getting all excited about UCLA-Rutgers, we'll be missing the Apple Cup (and Civil War for that matter.)

That rivalry is now on the same track as Nebraska/Oklahoma, Pittsburgh/West Virginia etc...

The games may still occur. But it certainly won't feel the same.

 

[Reaser]

Puyallup HS was absolutely nuts, and that's even if you count only Huards (and I always felt Sam should have gone to Puyallup instead of Kennedy).

I have a complicated relationship with Saban but I do love that he's part of the James tree. I used to have all of the Dawgfather posters up.

Or Luke should have gone to UW! He played against my -I was in middle school at the time- HS in the state QFs in '96, I was at the game so got to watch him. But exactly, felt the same about Sam.

Puyallup was crazy, even when they didn't have a future D1 QB, they had someone like Darren Erath who went and set records at Western Washington (played for Vikings in HS and College) ... too bad WWU shut down the program.