Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[LowLefty]

I'm not sure if it smells funny as Perfetti hasn't missed any real time yet. We also don't know the full range of details. I also wonder if Chevy has a hard dollar amount he will go to, because he may need/want the money for another move down the line.

No, he hasn't missed much - I'm just not sure why this isn't done.
Sure - there could be other variables - who knows? My comments are more directed to the point of this contract and how potentially important it is.

We have a top 10 pic playing top 6 minutes and we can't get a bridge done at the money being thrown around? I don't see why he hasn't put this one to bed. That's the part IMO, that smells.

And I'll admit, I'm going off a lot of the comments from those that feel this player is a key cog in the future -not necessarily my own thoughts on his worth or perceived stature on this club, at this time or down the road.

So TBH, I don't see this as another Chevy being Chevy with the "grind all contracts" and save a few bucks. I'm tossing out the idea that maybe they don't see the value and are pushing for less even on a short bridge that, when you consider the perceived pedigree, has caught me off guard. For many, it appears to be more about the Chevy grind status quo - so I'll leave it at that.

 

[surixon]

Even after the grinding I feel most Chevy contracts are market price with a slight plus for a Winnipeg tax. The grind seems necessary to me.

For Perfetti, if the alleged gap is between $3.1m and $3.75m, that is a significant gap. I don't think people, who are asking for Chevy to cave understand that's over 20% more that Perfetti wants with his silly comparable. That's not just not something that should just be handed over because Perfetti might get his feelings hurt. How about Perfetti and his team get real and stop comparing him to players who play different positions and clearly took advantage of a GM well known for being weak.

I mean you can say his comp is silly, but it is the most recent contract inked to a player with nearly the same numbers. It isn't any more silly then what I'm sure his camp thinks are some of the Jets comps that they are using.

Every contract that is inked is part of setting the market. You can't just pick and choose the ones you don't like and ommit them. Yes we know that there are dumb GMs out there that sign bad deals but you can't just ignore them cause you think they are bad.

In the end in this negotiation Chevy has the leverage so the deal will be closer to the Jets offer whereas it would be closer to Cole's ask if he had arb rights.

If it's a bridge it will likely come in around 3.3 to 3.4 million.

Chevy isn't going to want to let Cole leave the negotiation sour with the org. He will give some once KO comes off his ask.

 

[surixon]

No, he hasn't missed much - I'm just not sure why this isn't done.
Sure - there could be other variables - who knows? My comments are more directed to the point of this contract and how potentially important it is.

We have a top 10 pic playing top 6 minutes and we can't get a bridge done at the money being thrown around? I don't see why he hasn't put this one to bed. That's the part IMO, that smells.

And I'll admit, I'm going off a lot of the comments from those that feel this player is a key cog in the future -not necessarily my own thoughts on his worth or perceived stature on this club, at this time or down the road.

So TBH, I don't see this as another Chevy being Chevy with the "grind all contracts" and save a few bucks. I'm tossing out the idea that maybe they don't see the value and are pushing for less even on a short bridge that, when you consider the perceived pedigree, has caught me off guard. For many, it appears to be more about the Chevy grind status quo - so I'll leave it at that.

The issue is that I imagine both sides are having an incredibly hard time with the valuation based on what happened the back half of last year. None of the other high prominent young players were sent to the PB down the stretch before their contract was up. Much easier to agree to the value of a player who was consistently in the top 6 and their numbers were what they were.

Cole paced just shy of 55 points if you just isolate his top 6 minutes. When you factor in the fourth line and PB usage his pace went to 44 points on the year as a whole.

So how do you get the two sides to easily agree on a value when the back half really muddies the water.

I think that is the issue. Chevy can't set a precident by ignoring the total numbers even if he believes Cole is the roughly 50 to 55 point caliber player he showed through the 120 or so games he's played in the top 6 and I'm sure Cole's agent is fighting to minimize the impact of the 20 or so games he was on the fourth line.

A long term deal would be different imo as I'm sure Chevy would be more open to paying for 60 point potential. But on a short term deal he's likely trying hard for it to be based on the total value Cole has shown.

 

[DRW204]

No, he hasn't missed much - I'm just not sure why this isn't done.
Sure - there could be other variables - who knows? My comments are more directed to the point of this contract and how potentially important it is.

We have a top 10 pic playing top 6 minutes and we can't get a bridge done at the money being thrown around? I don't see why he hasn't put this one to bed. That's the part IMO, that smells.

And I'll admit, I'm going off a lot of the comments from those that feel this player is a key cog in the future -not necessarily my own thoughts on his worth or perceived stature on this club, at this time or down the road.

So TBH, I don't see this as another Chevy being Chevy with the "grind all contracts" and save a few bucks. I'm tossing out the idea that maybe they don't see the value and are pushing for less even on a short bridge that, when you consider the perceived pedigree, has caught me off guard. For many, it appears to be more about the Chevy grind status quo - so I'll leave it at that.

both sides are grinding & holding their ground to get what they want. if perfetti had arb rights, this would've been settled already either in court or just prior. a few 100k USD is a big deal from a player coming off ELCs POV but the Jets don't want to just give it.

 

[TS Quint]

In fairness to those wanting Chevy to cave .... they are not suggesting that he give the full ask (at least most are not). They are assuming that Perfetti's agent would accept a number smack in the middle. Maybe it is KO who is grinding for every penny.

That's bullshit. The comparelable is the compareable. Chevy should just say $2m/year AND THEN meet in the middle. Just dumb. The Jets have enough going against them that they don't need to deal with stupid logic. The comparison is the comparison. Perfetti and in reality the Overcharge group can eat shit for all I care. Asking for 20% over market to land at 10% is stupid for Chevy. The fact that there are this many so called Jet fans who agree to this logic is ridiculous.

Missing training camp and any part of the season is going to cost Perfetti at least half a year in development. Hope he enjoys it. He's letting his so called representation shaft him. Gooooooood!

He should come to his senses and take a reasonable offer.

 

[TS Quint]

The issue is that I imagine both sides are having an incredibly hard time with the valuation based on what happened the back half of last year. None of the other high prominent young players were sent to the PB down the stretch before their contract was up. Much easier to agree to the value of a player who was consistently in the top 6 and their numbers were what they were.

Cole paced just shy of 55 points if you just isolate his top 6 minutes. When you factor in the fourth line and PB usage his pace went to 44 points on the year as a whole.

So how do you get the two sides to easily agree on a value when the back half really muddies the water.

I think that is the issue. Chevy can't set a precident by ignoring the total numbers even if he believes Cole is the roughly 50 to 55 point caliber player he showed through the 120 or so games he's played in the top 6 and I'm sure Cole's agent is fighting to minimize the impact of the 20 or so games he was on the fourth line.

A long term deal would be different imo as I'm sure Chevy would be more open to paying for 60 point potential. But on a short term deal he's likely trying hard for it to be based on the total value Cole has shown.

Rick Bowness is a reasonable coach who has a history of integrating young players, despite what a number of posters who laughably hold the Stars as the gold standard of intergrating young talent might believe. Perfetti got what he earned last year. He owns his numbers.

 

[Board Bard]

No doubt there are other wrinkles

Yes, there are. The top photo shows Cole Perfetti before contract negotiations began. The bottom photo shows Perfetti today, well into the contract process.

----

It should be noted for accuracy that most of those wrinkles are not the by-product of stressful financial wrangling vs. Chevy but of listening to Chevy say "again" in every sentence. People who watch Dave Minuk in Illegal Curve podcasts know what I mean, and are some of the oldest-looking, most-wrinkled people since Methuselah.

 

[TS Quint]

I mean you can say his comp is silly, but it is the most recent contract inked to a player with nearly the same numbers. It isn't any more silly then what I'm sure his camp thinks are some of the Jets comps that they are using.

Every contract that is inked is part of setting the market. You can't just pick and choose the ones you don't like and ommit them. Yes we know that there are dumb GMs out there that sign bad deals but you can't just ignore them cause you think they are bad.

In the end in this negotiation Chevy has the leverage so the deal will be closer to the Jets offer whereas it would be closer to Cole's ask if he had arb rights.

If it's a bridge it will likely come in around 3.3 to 3.4 million.

Chevy isn't going to want to let Cole leave the negotiation sour with the org. He will give some once KO comes off his ask.

You think a wing and a centre are the same position?

I'm not just randomly omitting contracts. Show me more compareables and actually make a case. Sorry I'm not just a Perfetti fan Boi. I'm not just going to ignore position and contracts. And yes, you can absolutely ignore bad contracts. What are you even trying to say? You think the Jets should just sign bad contracts because someone else signed a bad contract? Why do you hate the Jets?

You think it's reasonable for the agent to just pick the highest compareable from a player who plays a different position as a reasonable ask?

 

[Eyeseeing]

You think a wing and a centre are the same position?

I'm not just randomly omitting contracts. Show me more compareables and actually make a case. Sorry I'm not just a Perfetti fan Boi. I'm not just going to ignore position and bad contracts. And yes, you can absolutely ignore bad contracts. What are you even trying to say? You think the Jets should just sign bad contracts because someone else signed a bad contract? Why do you hate the Jets?

You think it's reasonable for the agent to just pick the highest compareable from a player who plays a different position as a reasonable ask?

It’s Cole’s career and his money potentially, so good on him for maximizing the value.
He’s going to get paid eventually.
I disagree about how Bowness handled him during his slump.
Cheveldayoff may win the battle but lose the war.
Time will tell.

 

[TS Quint]

It’s Cole’s career and his money potentially, so good on him for maximizing the value.
He’s going to get paid eventually.
I disagree about how Bowness handled him during his slump.
Cheveldayoff may win the battle but lose the war.
Time will tell.

So just cave to an agent with unreasonable positions? This isn't just about Perfetti. If keeping Perfetti comes with a 20%+ tax, maybe he doesn't actually like it here and he's full of crap. Maybe he needs to sit out a year. Maybe he needs a team who is willing to pay that tax. I'm glad it's not the Jets.

I think we have a long enough history of Chevy and Overcharge contracts to see what's happening here.

 

[Eyeseeing]

So just cave to an agent with unreasonable positions? This isn't just about Perfetti.

I wasn’t suggesting Cheveldayoff cave at all.
I was saying it’s Cole’s money not yours or mine, would you purposely take less because someone thought you were being unreasonable?
That’s why he has an agent to navigate the process.

 

[TS Quint]

I wasn’t suggesting Cheveldayoff cave at all.
I was saying it’s Cole’s money not yours or mine, would you purposely take less because someone thought you were being unreasonable?
That’s why he has an agent to navigate the process.

Ok.... I agree he can allow his representatives make as many bad decisions he wants. I don't know where you saw I said anything different. I'm saying the Jets shouldn't just meet in the middle because an idiot agent came in with an unreasonable expectation.

You were saying not caving to an unreasonable conract might cost Chevy the "war". I said this is a battle and not the "war".

Perfetti isn't that big of a deal. This is a guy if everything works out and he gets all the best opportunities he hits 60 points. If any other GM in the league values him at that, he can have him as far as I'm concerned. Perfetti isn't a guy worth ruining salary structure over. He can get real or get bent. He didn't hurt the Jets sitting in the press box last year.

 

[surixon]

You think a wing and a centre are the same position?

I'm not just randomly omitting contracts. Show me more compareables and actually make a case. Sorry I'm not just a Perfetti fan Boi. I'm not just going to ignore position and contracts. And yes, you can absolutely ignore bad contracts. What are you even trying to say? You think the Jets should just sign bad contracts because someone else signed a bad contract? Why do you hate the Jets?

You think it's reasonable for the agent to just pick the highest compareable from a player who plays a different position as a reasonable ask?

You think playing on a bottom 10 team and a top 4 team are the same? You think getting in trouble with the league and being suspended half the season are the same as a player with a clean image?

I'm sorry but you can make arguments to put Cole ahead of a player who got his minutes due to being on a crap team and is lucky he still has a career for violating the gambling policy.

Anyone can play the subjective argument game.

Also the $3.3 to 3.4 where this will likely end isn't unreasonable. It would be a very similar amount to what Chevy inked Vilardi to last summer.

78 points in 152 games for Gabe vs 75 in 140 games for Cole.

There is your comp and it was signed by Chevy to boot. So splitting makes perfect sense based on what Chevy paid for a similar pedigree and numbered player.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

In fairness to those wanting Chevy to cave .... they are not suggesting that he give the full ask (at least most are not). They are assuming that Perfetti's agent would accept a number smack in the middle. Maybe it is KO who is grinding for every penny.

Cameron Stewart is Perfetti’s agent.

 

[Jets 31]

You think playing on a bottom 10 team and a top 4 team are the same? You think getting in trouble with the league and being suspended half the season are the same as a player with a clean image?

I'm sorry but you can make arguments to put Cole ahead of a player who got his minutes due to being on a crap team and is lucky he still has a career for violating the gambling policy.

Anyone can play the subjective argument game.

Also the $3.3 to 3.4 where this will likely end isn't unreasonable. It would be a very similar amount to what Chevy inked Vilardi to last summer.

78 points in 152 games for Gabe vs 75 in 140 games for Cole.

There is your comp and it was signed by Chevy to boot. So splitting makes perfect sense based on what Chevy paid for a similar pedigree and numbered player.

We don't know anything about the negotiations , for all we know Chevy has offered the same deal as Vilardi and Perfetti and his agent said no .

 

[KingBogo]

I’m just hoping both sides are just grinding and nothing has gotten personal. This past weekend’s games were mostly for kids and scrubs with a few higher end players on Saturday. Today is an off day so if something can get done today Perfetti hits the ice tomorrow no worse for wear.

 

[Weezeric]

You think playing on a bottom 10 team and a top 4 team are the same? You think getting in trouble with the league and being suspended half the season are the same as a player with a clean image?

I'm sorry but you can make arguments to put Cole ahead of a player who got his minutes due to being on a crap team and is lucky he still has a career for violating the gambling policy.

Anyone can play the subjective argument game.

Also the $3.3 to 3.4 where this will likely end isn't unreasonable. It would be a very similar amount to what Chevy inked Vilardi to last summer.

78 points in 152 games for Gabe vs 75 in 140 games for Cole.

There is your comp and it was signed by Chevy to boot. So splitting makes perfect sense based on what Chevy paid for a similar pedigree and numbered player.

That was Vilardi’s 3rd contract. He signed a one year 825k deal with LA coming out of his ELC. He’s not a comparable.

 

[TS Quint]

You think playing on a bottom 10 team and a top 4 team are the same? You think getting in trouble with the league and being suspended half the season are the same as a player with a clean image?

I'm sorry but you can make arguments to put Cole ahead of a player who got his minutes due to being on a crap team and is lucky he still has a career for violating the gambling policy.

Anyone can play the subjective argument game.

Also the $3.3 to 3.4 where this will likely end isn't unreasonable. It would be a very similar amount to what Chevy inked Vilardi to last summer.

78 points in 152 games for Gabe vs 75 in 140 games for Cole.

There is your comp and it was signed by Chevy to boot. So splitting makes perfect sense based on what Chevy paid for a similar pedigree and numbered player.

What’s the math equation for comparing a player on a bottom 10 teams and a top 4 team. Don’t the stat guys say a player is more effected by the players with than the players played against? Seems like Cole has the advantage of playing for the 4th place team. Do you actually see Pinto as having a bad image? I saw a lot of support for him. His contract doesn’t seem to reflect a bad image. More games probably would have helped him. Who are you comparing Pinto/Perfetti with to justify even more money? if one of these guys had more to overcome I think it’s hard to say it was Perfetti.


If you want to change who Perfetti is being compared to that’s not meeting in the middle. That’s changing the comparison. I can listen to that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Cameron Stewart is Perfetti’s agent.

OK, I thought it was KO.

 

[Jets 31]

OK, I thought it was KO.

He is but he works for Kurt Overpay

 

[Eyeseeing]

He is but he works for Kurt Overpay

Hopefully it gets settled soon.
You’d swear some people here are paying him out of their own pockets

 

[cneely]

Perfetti isn't that big of a deal. This is a guy if everything works out and he gets all the best opportunities he hits 60 points. If any other GM in the league values him at that, he can have him as far as I'm concerned. Perfetti isn't a guy worth ruining salary structure over. He can get real or get bent. He didn't hurt the Jets sitting in the press box last year.

Over his first three years, Perfetti is pacing almost identical to #55. 43.9 PPG for Perfetti, 44.2 for Scheifele.

As a 20 year old rookie he was on pace for 48 points.

I don't know why you dislike him so much, but Perfetti still has a ton of untapped potential.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Over his first three years, Perfetti is pacing almost identical to #55. 43.9 PPG for Perfetti, 44.2 for Scheifele.

As a 20 year old rookie he was on pace for 48 points.

I don't know why you dislike him so much, but Perfetti still has a ton of untapped potential.

And with a notably better all-round game than many editions of Scheifele.

This is not to say that Cole will hit or even approach 55's impact as a lock for PPG season in and season out, as a consistent playoffs ace when healthy or as one of the best chance generators around for his linemates. But I think it's hard to argue that Perfetti should be on the low end of bridge deals / contracts when he's on the high end for production among his cohorts, plays a mature two-way game with strong analytics, and follows in the boots of JMo and Lowry etc as the player you want to represent your team on the league stage.

It's mostly about numbers, but it ain't only about numbers.

And Stewart will be running his own show on this contract, I'd expect. I don't see this as a KO lets-screw-the-Jets deal.

Agree with all that the deal needs to get done. Team and player need to find their shape and hit the ground running in a more competitive Central.

 

[Malcsta]

I would love to see a deal announced today/tomorrow and then he gets to play wednesdays game but I'm having my doubts

 

[surixon]

And with a notably better all-round game than many editions of Scheifele.

This is not to say that Cole will hit or even approach 55's impact as a lock for PPG season in and season out, as a consistent playoffs ace when healthy or as one of the best chance generators around for his linemates. But I think it's hard to argue that Perfetti should be on the low end of bridge deals / contracts when he's on the high end for production among his cohorts, plays a mature two-way game with strong analytics, and follows in the boots of JMo and Lowry etc as the player you want to represent your team on the league stage.

It's mostly about numbers, but it ain't only about numbers.

And Stewart will be running his own show on this contract, I'd expect. I don't see this as a KO lets-screw-the-Jets deal.

Agree with all that the deal needs to get done. Team and player need to find their shape and hit the ground running in a more competitive Central.

Yeah, he's tracking just fine especially when you cinsusder the team is stronger now then when Mark cracked it and his usage is much worse then Mark's was.

I expect a breakout year to 65 points this year.

People are reading way too much into this taking a while. Most players don't care all that much about preseason.