Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[MelikeJets]

Right, and when the closer we get to Cole missing meaningful time, the more likely it is that they'll settle in the middle somewhere

I could see chevy sticking to 3.25, which just makes it more obvious that they'll settle ~3.5 once the game of chicken gets real. Once the season starts, every day will knock Cole's pay for the season down closer to the number chevy is asking for

You are probably correct Buffdog and this is the part of pro hockey that I can't stand.

 

[LowLefty]

What I am saying is the jets haven’t come off 3.1 and Perfetti hasn’t come off 3.75. That’s why it is not done.

I said from what I heard because that’s what happened. Maybe I should have used different language. Which I will do next time.

Sounds to me like they are really counting the pennies in this deal -
Is it possible that the Jets are not as high on Perfetti and many around here are?
Are there concerns with this ability to stay healthy, his stamina, his size, his speed? Maybe it isn't all about comps / production up to this point.

This won't be popular but why would the Jets fret over a gap that looks to be around $500K if the player is anything close to what he is sometimes described around here as?
Sounds like the Jets are also concerned about a bridge number that shouldn't really worry the org too much - I thought there might be concerns with a longer term deal at this point - but the bridge money we're taking over two years?
I was thinking at one time that the Jets would go as high as $4M on a 2yr bridge - now I'm really wondering what is going on here.

 

[surixon]

Sounds to me like they are really counting the pennies in this deal -
Is it possible that the Jets are not as high on Perfetti and many around here are?
Are there concerns with this ability to stay healthy, his stamina, his size, his speed? Maybe it isn't all about comps / production up to this point.

This won't be popular but why would the Jets fret over a gap that looks to be around $500K if the player is anything close to what he is sometimes described around here as?
Sounds like the Jets are also concerned about a bridge number that shouldn't really worry the org too much - I thought there might be concerns with a longer term deal at this point - but the bridge money we're taking over two years?
I was thinking at one time that the Jets would go as high as $4M on a 2yr bridge - now I'm really wondering what is going on here.

Chevy always grinds hard when they have the leverage. They do it to everyone. Which is why you've seen most of his prime RFA's hold out into camp. I don't think there is anything to read here, he is just maintaining past precedence. If he gives into Cole, then he has to give into Lambert and co down the line.

 

[surixon]

Right, and when the closer we get to Cole missing meaningful time, the more likely it is that they'll settle in the middle somewhere

I could see chevy sticking to 3.25, which just makes it more obvious that they'll settle ~3.5 once the game of chicken gets real. Once the season starts, every day will knock Cole's pay for the season down closer to the number chevy is asking for

Yup, Chevy has the leverage so he'll just do as he always does and wait the other side out, but will up his offer a bit for the other side to save some face.

Cole will sign by next weekend imo. His camp knows he can't afford to miss real games and he'll want to get in atleast one preseason games to shake off the rust.

 

[LowLefty]

Yup, Chevy has the leverage so he'll just do as he always does and wait the other side out, but will up his offer a bit for the other side to save some face.

Cole will sign by next weekend imo. His camp knows he can't afford to miss real games and he'll want to get in atleast one preseason games to shake off the rust.

I get that Chevy has the leverage - but why push this to the 11th hour when the dollars are not significant in this cap world.
It's the amount of money I'd be concerned about - it's not a lot and there is no reason to push like this if the player is a key pce in the future as some have stated. There's nothing to gain here for Chevy - he's not nickel and diming a bottom 6 hole where he can play the "negotiation game" to save a few bucks.
I don't get it unless there is more too it - thus the points I brought up in my initial post.

 

[surixon]

I get that Chevy has the leverage - but why push this to the 11th hour when the dollars are not significant in this cap world.
It's the amount of money I'd be concerned about - it's not a lot and there is no reason to push like this if the player is a key pce in the future as some have stated. There's nothing to gain here for Chevy - he's not nickel and diming a bottom 6 hole where he can play the "negotiation game" to save a few bucks.
I don't get it unless there is more too it - thus the points I brought up in my initial post.

I get what you are saying, but this is how they do it. He pushed it to the 11th hour with JoMo, KC, snd Laine as well. I actually respect that he uses the same tactic for everyone. Chevy gets his price, this doesn't just apply to trades but contracts as well when he has the leverage. In two years time Cole's camp will hold it.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Using Vilardi s deal as a base on a 2 year bridge.

2 years @ $3,437,500.00

Healthy scratch for 4 out of 5 games on our playoff limp to the Finnish of last spring.

 

[Cnile]

I get what you are saying, but this is how they do it. He pushed it to the 11th hour with JoMo, KC, snd Laine as well. I actually respect that he uses the same tactic for everyone. Chevy gets his price, this doesn't just apply to trades but contracts as well when he has the leverage. In two years time Cole's camp will hold it.

Cheveldayoff is doing what he has to do in this market.
It probably shouldn’t matter to the players personally but it may rub some the wrong way.
Tough business and that’s what it is to ownership a business.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Sounds to me like they are really counting the pennies in this deal -
Is it possible that the Jets are not as high on Perfetti and many around here are?
Are there concerns with this ability to stay healthy, his stamina, his size, his speed? Maybe it isn't all about comps / production up to this point.

This won't be popular but why would the Jets fret over a gap that looks to be around $500K if the player is anything close to what he is sometimes described around here as?
Sounds like the Jets are also concerned about a bridge number that shouldn't really worry the org too much - I thought there might be concerns with a longer term deal at this point - but the bridge money we're taking over two years?
I was thinking at one time that the Jets would go as high as $4M on a 2yr bridge - now I'm really wondering what is going on here.

They loved Andrew Copp, but they still put him through the arb process in order to end up at pretty much the same number. They also love JMo and KFC, but they also sat out parts of TC, and took a while to get up to speed, perhaps even costing the team some wins, IIRC. I don't get it but it seems to be an org thing, just like 82-game Pionk, a shutdown / energy line setup or 1RW/ PP1 Ancient Mariner Wheeler.

IMO signing Cole at a few dollars more after the Summer of Rutger would have been a PR and team spirit win, but this is how they operate. Still expect to see a signing soon, and still expect that CP is sincere about his feelings for the city and the team, but can't help thinking that if there was a young player in recent years who deserved the org's faith, it's Perfetti. Just get er' done.

 

[Jet]

I get that Chevy has the leverage - but why push this to the 11th hour when the dollars are not significant in this cap world.
It's the amount of money I'd be concerned about - it's not a lot and there is no reason to push like this if the player is a key pce in the future as some have stated. There's nothing to gain here for Chevy - he's not nickel and diming a bottom 6 hole where he can play the "negotiation game" to save a few bucks.
I don't get it unless there is more too it - thus the points I brought up in my initial post.

Because if you do that for every deal all of the sudden your millions more with cap usage and then Chevy doesn't have flexibility. The deal in isolation wouldn't be bad but then you're setting a bad precedent.

 

[surixon]

Because if you do that for every deal all of the sudden your millions more with cap usage and then Chevy doesn't have flexibility. The deal in isolation wouldn't be bad but then you're setting a bad precedent.

Exactly. He has to keep the method for everyone otherwise he undermines his own leverage for all future deals.

 

[Jet]

I do also think that Perfettis lack of speed is going to limit him. He's a fantastically skilled high iq guy but if you're smaller you better be an excellent skater in the nhl.

If you can't evade checking you'll be giving up the puck a lot and taking a beating. If Perfetti had ehlers speed, he be a bonafide star, and if ehlers had Perfettis mind he'd be a superstar.

 

[Weezeric]

They loved Andrew Copp, but they still put him through the arb process in order to end up at pretty much the same number. They also love JMo and KFC, but they also sat out parts of TC, and took a while to get up to speed, perhaps even costing the team some wins, IIRC. I don't get it but it seems to be an org thing, just like 82-game Pionk, a shutdown / energy line setup or 1RW/ PP1 Ancient Mariner Wheeler.

IMO signing Cole at a few dollars more after the Summer of Rutger would have been a PR and team spirit win, but this is how they operate. Still expect to see a signing soon, and still expect that CP is sincere about his feelings for the city and the team, but can't help thinking that if there was a young player in recent years who deserved the org's faith, it's Perfetti. Just get er' done.

I don’t think you want to set the precedent that the Jets will give you an extra half million dollars if you say you like Winnipeg…

 

[surixon]

I do also think that Perfettis lack of speed is going to limit him. He's a fantastically skilled high iq guy but if you're smaller you better be an excellent skater in the nhl.

If you can't evade checking you'll be giving up the puck a lot and taking a beating. If Perfetti had ehlers speed, he be a bonafide star, and if ehlers had Perfettis mind he'd be a superstar.

I'm not at all concerned about his skating. He gets quicker each year and can burst in the top 20% when he wants now. He is just going to need to bust more and continue to learn how to shield and spin off guys. He was doing a good job of that last year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I was telling you what I was told.

Lots of people were talking long term and many different amounts and many have said 2 years at 4 plus. I am telling you I was told that Cole’s camp wants 3.75m and the Jets are at 3m.

This whole place is based on rumors and heresy and personal thoughts.

Me laying this is no different than the guy above who said he heard a rumour that Cole was asking for Guenther deal. I am just saying that I heard that it was going to be 2 years for sure and between 3.1 and 3.7.

I am not sure why what I am saying is so controversial. You can choose not to believe me just like any other thing written here.

Its controversial because you are not stating it as your opinion. You are stating that you have knowledgeable sources with nothing to back that up. On both sides yet.

What you are suggesting is what I have expected all along. But I have zero sources. It is just my assessment of what makes the most sense for both sides. I predict 2x3.4. We'll see. I hope soon.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sounds to me like they are really counting the pennies in this deal -
Is it possible that the Jets are not as high on Perfetti and many around here are?
Are there concerns with this ability to stay healthy, his stamina, his size, his speed? Maybe it isn't all about comps / production up to this point.

This won't be popular but why would the Jets fret over a gap that looks to be around $500K if the player is anything close to what he is sometimes described around here as?
Sounds like the Jets are also concerned about a bridge number that shouldn't really worry the org too much - I thought there might be concerns with a longer term deal at this point - but the bridge money we're taking over two years?
I was thinking at one time that the Jets would go as high as $4M on a 2yr bridge - now I'm really wondering what is going on here.

Maybe fighting over the distribution of the money. Maybe Cole wants a high number in the second year which would make his QO high. Maybe they are still fighting over term, 2 years or 3. Could be either side wanting longer, depending on other factors that we don't know.

Whatever it is, Chevy needs to get this done soon and without creating any residual resentment.

 

[DRW204]

I do also think that Perfettis lack of speed is going to limit him. He's a fantastically skilled high iq guy but if you're smaller you better be an excellent skater in the nhl.

If you can't evade checking you'll be giving up the puck a lot and taking a beating. If Perfetti had ehlers speed, he be a bonafide star, and if ehlers had Perfettis mind he'd be a superstar.

limit him how? reaching some lofty comparisons and ppl throw on here, perhaps. however, there's players who don't particularly play fast that can play or produce at a v good nhl level.

i don't gather much from max top-speed as surixon brought up b/c it looks like majority of fwds fall within couple km/h of each other.

but the frequency they reach certain speed thresholds - Perfetti is near the bottom of nhl fwds in, which id denote as the difference of playing fast and top speed. there are some really good producers around him in terms of playing-fast. ofc there's some non-producers too. perfetti has already shown he can be 0.55 PPG player in his early 20s, i think that's a solid enough baseline to improve upon.

I'm not at all concerned about his skating. He gets quicker each year and can burst in thr top 20% when he wants now. He is just going to need to bust more and continue to learn how to shield and spin off guys. He was doing a good of that last year.

his top speed is posted at 22.7 MPH.... he reached above 22 MPH that sole time in 71gp. it's a single point in time measurement that alot of these fwds have minuscule differences. you mention percentiles of max speed and ofc don't even talk about how tight the ranges are.

Sounds to me like they are really counting the pennies in this deal -
Is it possible that the Jets are not as high on Perfetti and many around here are?
Are there concerns with this ability to stay healthy, his stamina, his size, his speed? Maybe it isn't all about comps / production up to this point.

This won't be popular but why would the Jets fret over a gap that looks to be around $500K if the player is anything close to what he is sometimes described around here as?
Sounds like the Jets are also concerned about a bridge number that shouldn't really worry the org too much - I thought there might be concerns with a longer term deal at this point - but the bridge money we're taking over two years?
I was thinking at one time that the Jets would go as high as $4M on a 2yr bridge - now I'm really wondering what is going on here.

i love how we can talk about the difference of 500k USD per year so nonchalantly

he's a recent top-10 pick, their highest pick since 2016 - who seems like a good guy off the ice and someone they felt comfortable sending to represent them on the media tour along with being a legitimate piece for their top-6.

IMO i get the impression they're high on him given all that. i do agree w/ you overall - they're probably a bit more realistic in their evaluations compared to some on here. i am surprised a bit of the absence of LT deal talk from the Jets POV, if the reported commentary or narratives are true.

 

[LowLefty]

Because if you do that for every deal all of the sudden your millions more with cap usage and then Chevy doesn't have flexibility. The deal in isolation wouldn't be bad but then you're setting a bad precedent.

I think every deal is different - which goes without saying.
But some are harder than others depending on the money and the player.
I thought this one would be easier.

How they approach each deal is a factor IMO - do we need to grind this one out for the sake of what might be minimal $'s?
Or do we need to treat them all the same and grind them all? IMO, they are not all the same.

KC was used as an example in a few posts - but I see that one coming during a much harder crunch with the Laine deal happening at the same time - they were juggling some serious money on both those contracts - and KC's was done immediately after the smoke cleared after Laine signing.

We don't really know what is on the table right now - lots of speculation. My post was more about the "what if" scenario where this is heading for a bridge.
The bridge is the fall back if there is concern with either party on a longer deal - so why grind the bridge when it's so short and relatively cheap.
If part of this is about ensuring everyone is treated the same, I'd argue that they are not the same in that some contracts would have settled longer term already - especially top 6 contracts with players that according to some, are no brainer top 6 players.

This one just smells funny to me - purely an opinion that this is not as simple as "all chevy deals are a grind" and they need to be all treated the same.
I'll also agree that your points and others, are valid - I'm just looking under the details a bit and wondering if it was / is necessary to drag this one out for the sake of negotiation consistency. Spit balling so to speak - conversation purposes only.

 

[LowLefty]

They loved Andrew Copp, but they still put him through the arb process in order to end up at pretty much the same number. They also love JMo and KFC, but they also sat out parts of TC, and took a while to get up to speed, perhaps even costing the team some wins, IIRC. I don't get it but it seems to be an org thing, just like 82-game Pionk, a shutdown / energy line setup or 1RW/ PP1 Ancient Mariner Wheeler.

IMO signing Cole at a few dollars more after the Summer of Rutger would have been a PR and team spirit win, but this is how they operate. Still expect to see a signing soon, and still expect that CP is sincere about his feelings for the city and the team, but can't help thinking that if there was a young player in recent years who deserved the org's faith, it's Perfetti. Just get er' done.

Not all those contracts / situatuions were the same -
Copp was a bubble top 6 player - they were careful with that one.
KC was more about timing (with the Laine deal taking place at the same time) - same can be said about the Laine deal - only so many %'s were available for what amounted to 2 significant contracts that likely couldn't both be signed long term.
With JoMo, I think they were still sorting out what they had with this Dman - it's now been determined but might not have been at the time. So did they grind that one just because they grind or because there were still unanswered questions?

 

[sipowicz]

I do also think that Perfettis lack of speed is going to limit him. He's a fantastically skilled high iq guy but if you're smaller you better be an excellent skater in the nhl.

If you can't evade checking you'll be giving up the puck a lot and taking a beating. If Perfetti had ehlers speed, he be a bonafide star, and if ehlers had Perfettis mind he'd be a superstar.

BINGO!

You nailed it!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think every deal is different - which goes without saying.
But some are harder than others depending on the money and the player.
I thought this one would be easier.

How they approach each deal is a factor IMO - do we need to grind this one out for the sake of what might be minimal $'s?
Or do we need to treat them all the same and grind them all? IMO, they are not all the same.

KC was used as an example in a few posts - but I see that one coming during a much harder crunch with the Laine deal happening at the same time - they were juggling some serious money on both those contracts - and KC's was done immediately after the smoke cleared after Laine signing.

We don't really know what is on the table right now - lots of speculation. My post was more about the "what if" scenario where this is heading for a bridge.
The bridge is the fall back if there is concern with either party on a longer deal - so why grind the bridge when it's so short and relatively cheap.
If part of this is about ensuring everyone is treated the same, I'd argue that they are not the same in that some contracts would have settled longer term already - especially top 6 contracts with players that according to some, are no brainer top 6 players.

This one just smells funny to me - purely an opinion that this is not as simple as "all chevy deals are a grind" and they need to be all treated the same.
I'll also agree that your points and others, are valid - I'm just looking under the details a bit and wondering if it was / is necessary to drag this one out for the sake of negotiation consistency. Spit balling so to speak - conversation purposes only.

I agree that some here are oversimplifying the process. No 2 are exactly the same and there are a lot of factors influencing each. That said, Chevy does seem to have a pattern of grinding on every contract. That may vary depending on the player and the agent. If the agent grinds then so does Chevy. Cole's agent is a grinder.

I have a concern that Chevy may be more oriented toward grinding than to making players feel appreciated.

 

[TS Quint]

I agree that some here are oversimplifying the process. No 2 are exactly the same and there are a lot of factors influencing each. That said, Chevy does seem to have a pattern of grinding on every contract. That may vary depending on the player and the agent. If the agent grinds then so does Chevy. Cole's agent is a grinder.

I have a concern that Chevy may be more oriented toward grinding than to making players feel appreciated.

Even after the grinding I feel most Chevy contracts are market price with a slight plus for a Winnipeg tax. The grind seems necessary to me.

For Perfetti, if the alleged gap is between $3.1m and $3.75m, that is a significant gap. I don't think people, who are asking for Chevy to cave understand that's over 20% more that Perfetti wants with his silly comparable. That's not just not something that should just be handed over because Perfetti might get his feelings hurt. How about Perfetti and his team get real and stop comparing him to players who play different positions and clearly took advantage of a GM well known for being weak.

 

[KingBogo]

I think every deal is different - which goes without saying.
But some are harder than others depending on the money and the player.
I thought this one would be easier.

How they approach each deal is a factor IMO - do we need to grind this one out for the sake of what might be minimal $'s?
Or do we need to treat them all the same and grind them all? IMO, they are not all the same.

KC was used as an example in a few posts - but I see that one coming during a much harder crunch with the Laine deal happening at the same time - they were juggling some serious money on both those contracts - and KC's was done immediately after the smoke cleared after Laine signing.

We don't really know what is on the table right now - lots of speculation. My post was more about the "what if" scenario where this is heading for a bridge.
The bridge is the fall back if there is concern with either party on a longer deal - so why grind the bridge when it's so short and relatively cheap.
If part of this is about ensuring everyone is treated the same, I'd argue that they are not the same in that some contracts would have settled longer term already - especially top 6 contracts with players that according to some, are no brainer top 6 players.

This one just smells funny to me - purely an opinion that this is not as simple as "all chevy deals are a grind" and they need to be all treated the same.
I'll also agree that your points and others, are valid - I'm just looking under the details a bit and wondering if it was / is necessary to drag this one out for the sake of negotiation consistency. Spit balling so to speak - conversation purposes only.

I'm not sure if it smells funny as Perfetti hasn't missed any real time yet. We also don't know the full range of details. I also wonder if Chevy has a hard dollar amount he will go to, because he may need/want the money for another move down the line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Even after the grinding I feel most Chevy contracts are market price with a slight plus for a Winnipeg tax. The grind seems necessary to me.

For Perfetti, if the alleged gap is between $3.1m and $3.75m, that is a significant gap. I don't think people, who are asking for Chevy to cave understand that's over 20% more that Perfetti wants with his silly comparable. That's not just not something that should just be handed over because Perfetti might get his feelings hurt. How about Perfetti and his team get real and stop comparing him to players who play different positions and clearly took advantage of a GM well known for being weak.

In fairness to those wanting Chevy to cave .... they are not suggesting that he give the full ask (at least most are not). They are assuming that Perfetti's agent would accept a number smack in the middle. Maybe it is KO who is grinding for every penny.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I don’t think you want to set the precedent that the Jets will give you an extra half million dollars if you say you like Winnipeg…

a) The small-market /YWG tax is already a precedent, arguably, and likely built into any negotiation, even with a player w/o arb rights

b) The Jets are widely if wrongly seen as a team that struggles to retain top talent -- despite the longterm signings of Helle, 55, 81, 44, and so on. This view has been reinforced yet again this summer with RutgerGate, so there may be an extra impetus to go longer with a perceived next-gen core player

b) Perfetti's conduct and commitment over the years and this season -- team rep, etc -- goes well beyond the Rutgerisms. The team needs to settle on its future core, and Perfetti seems to be a part of it

d) Starting the season with a key player out of contract comes with a cost -- whether those are offset by the future contracts savings is a consideration

e) Not advocating for the richest comparables, or a 500k overpay -- we'll find out when we find out I guess

No doubt there are other wrinkles, but I don't think this really about foolishly throwing $$$ at a player b/c he says nice things about the city