Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] Tyson Barrie (4 years, $5.5M AAV)

[MikeAvsPats]

$4.25 is the low point of the Arbitration Number for the Avs.
$6 is the high point of the Arbitration Number for Tyson.

This is neither lowballing or being greedy, this is just how arbitration works. I am sure they were working on a long term deal around $5 mill and Avs wouldn't budge or Tyson thought it was too low to sign. Hence, Arbitration.

Arbitration isn't a death sentence, its a business decision. Arbitration dumbed down for people basically means "the player has filed for a date at which he will be signed to a deal with the team he doesn't want to leave". If he wanted to leave he would have held out and hoped that someone got offer sheet happy. If he wanted to leave, he would demand something substantial in arbitration (DING DING DING ROR) to show the Avs there will be no deal available for my services.

Do Not take the ROR contract history for anything close to Tyson's. Avs sign him to a 2 year deal after arbitration or they make a deal and sign something before hand. Simple as that guys.

 

[Iceberg]

Barrie is asking for 6 Mill on 1 RFA-year!

I wonder what amount is asked for a multi year deal!

Barrie isn´t worth any number over 6 at the moment.

If this goes to Arbitration, he shouldn´t expect more than 5.25/year and would still have one year left as RFA.

He is not asking for crazy money, otherwise he wouldn't have filed for arbitration. I doubt very much he is asking for much more than 6 on a long term deal.

 

[Curufinwe]

I want a job as an arbitrator. They almost never have to do anything.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I think people get too hung up on top pairing/2nd pairing. The Penguins just won a cup with Letang as their best defenseman, playing 2nd line QOC and very high offensive zone start percentage. What's wrong with having a shutdown line and an offensive second pairing?

Ideally the kids develop. And we end up with this:

Zadorov-EJ
Bigras-Barrie

Use Zadorov-EJ in those own zone FO's against Benn/Seguin/Tarasenko/Wheeler. On the next FO in the offensive zone, trott Barrie and Bigras out there to let Barrie do what he does best.

We can easily get $6m in value from him if we give him tons of offensive opportunities and don't overextend him in the defensive zone.

Letang might have faced 2nd line QoC, but he was still used on the PK (over 2 minutes per night). Barrie had the 4th lowest SH TOI of any D with over 20 minutes of TOI (only ahead of Klingberg, Gardiner and Gostisbehere).

If we're going to use Barrie as an offensive weapon with less defensive responsibility, then I'd argue that he should be paid at a level similar to the other guys in that type of role, namely OEL and Klingberg. There's no logical reason to give Barrie $7m per year, like some people are suggesting, if he can't be effective in every situation. If he wants to get in line with the rest of our core, and is happy with around a $6m AAV, then it's a no brainer.

 

[Iceberg]

Letang might have faced 2nd line QoC, but he was still used on the PK (over 2 minutes per night). Barrie had the 4th lowest SH TOI of any D with over 20 minutes of TOI (only ahead of Klingberg, Gardiner and Gostisbehere).

If we're going to use Barrie as an offensive weapon with less defensive responsibility, then I'd argue that he should be paid at a level similar to the other guys in that type of role, namely OEL and Klingberg. There's no logical reason to give Barrie $7m per year, like some people are suggesting, if he can't be effective in every situation. If he wants to get in line with the rest of our core, and is happy with around a $6m AAV, then it's a no brainer.

Tell that to Mr. Sakic.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

ITT people act as if Barrie is the defensive offspring of Gregor Zanon and Nate Guenin. His defensive liabilities are blown out of proportion imo.

The sad thing is, Barrie has been right there with Guenin as far as giving up goals goes. Barrie got scored on a lot. Obviously he is more influential than just the number of goals against though, unlike those two who were worthless.

You are comparing Barrie to Guenin and Zanon, the two slowest slugs to have put on the uniform recently, but others are blowing his liabilities out of proportion? His liabilities and those twos' liabilities are completely different.

Barrie is a below average defender. Somewhere between " liability" and "average". Better than the likes of Guenin, Zanon, Redmond, etc, but worse than even someone like Holden.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Tell that to Mr. Sakic.

Yeah, though he's a genius if he gets Barrie signed long term and under 5,5-6m, that's the big if here

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's nuts to think a guy who is elite at putting up points (in the today's NHL when offense has never been harder to come by) at ES is worth 6mil? How about you take a look around the league and get in touch with reality?

And can we please stop with this inane narrative that he's poor defensively? I know some can't grasp that there's more to D than old time hockey. Barrie is very good at puck retrieval, pushes the play the other way and is sound positionally, all while being saddled with bums like Guenin and Holden, so cut that nonsense.

Can we please stop this inane narrative that pushing the puck the other way is "defense". Transition is not defense. Possession is not "defense". What you do with the puck is not "defense". "Defense" isn't measured by some fancy stats.

Yes, he is good at puck retrieval. That's it though, and effort. "Defense" is about keeping the other team from scoring and Barrie gives up a lot of goals. Despite his good possession, not defensive, numbers.

And no, he is not sound positionally. He has his stick on the wrong side a lot. He's late picking up his man a lot times. He gets boxed out easily in from of the net. The dude is not a sound positional defender. Defense is still the same. Old school, new school, it's the same. Only difference is now there are fancy stats putting more emphasis on certain areas which the stat crowd now acts like is more important than "old time hockey". Puck retrieval, zone exits, corsi, it's always been just as important as it is now.

 

[mcpw]

(...)
"Defense" isn't measured by some fancy stats.
(...)
"Defense" is about keeping the other team from scoring and Barrie gives up a lot of goals.
(...)

that's kind of a contradiction though, isn't it?

2015-16 5v5.
Tyson Barrie 2.34 goals against/60 minutes
Erik Johnson 2.52 goals against/60 minutes

Erik Johnson gives up more goals than Barrie. Is he worse at "defense"?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think people get too hung up on top pairing/2nd pairing. The Penguins just won a cup with Letang as their best defenseman, playing 2nd line QOC and very high offensive zone start percentage. What's wrong with having a shutdown line and an offensive second pairing?

Ideally the kids develop. And we end up with this:

Zadorov-EJ
Bigras-Barrie

Use Zadorov-EJ in those own zone FO's against Benn/Seguin/Tarasenko/Wheeler. On the next FO in the offensive zone, trott Barrie and Bigras out there to let Barrie do what he does best.

We can easily get $6m in value from him if we give him tons of offensive opportunities and don't overextend him in the defensive zone.

Bingo, people fall in love with "playing the toughs", granted those players are super valuable but so are guys that can put up a ton of points especially from the blueline. It's up to the coaching staff to deploy his players to maximize their value to the team.

They don't, but some can't grasp this concept and they can't stop harping on about it.

Spot on.

Not every team has a high end offensive defenseman as far as I'm concerned it's the last glaring hole on my team. Dealing Barrie over a few hundred thousand potentially would be a big loss for the Avs unless they stumble across someone to replace his production for cheaper. Colorado doesn't have a single asset worth a guy that puts up Barrie's offense but also plays the hard minutes at least not until Mac really breaks out.

No no, we all grasp the concept. What no one can grasp is why it makes sense to some to pay a one dimensional defenseman more than any other player on your team (referring to those that say, "just pay the extra $1M and be done with it").

He has earned a raise and a long term deal, but to think he warrants $6M is nuts. When players start asking for that, there is a level of play that is expected in all zones, not just the offensive zone. He is not great defensively and if he feels as though he deserves to be compensated as a top-tier d-man, he is going to get held to pretty lofty standards.

He is very good, but paying $6M-$7.5M for his is way too much for what he brings to the team.

I sure hope that Sakic feels this way because I'd happily give him $6 million for 7 years.

umm no mcleod is over paid ny 333 333 and so is mitchell.
give bottom 6ers the take it or leave it. they are easily replaceable. barrie is not, that is my point.

IMO a team can afford to overpay 1 to 2 bottom 6 guys, usually one of them would be a 3C. That said its easier to replace a 3rd/4th liner than it is to get a Barrie.

Yeah, though he's a genius if he gets Barrie signed long term and under 5,5-6m, that's the big if here

$6 million or under would be a great deal long term IMO.

 

[chet1926]

that's kind of a contradiction though, isn't it?

2015-16 5v5.
Tyson Barrie 2.34 goals against/60 minutes
Erik Johnson 2.52 goals against/60 minutes

Erik Johnson gives up more goals than Barrie. Is he worse at "defense"?

Yeah well there is a thing called quality of competition. EJ/Beauchemin pairing matched up against high end 1st liners like Wheeler/Seguin/Benn/Kane etc. on more occasions than not. Whereas Barrie and whomever he played with usually Holden matched up against 2nd/3rd liners.

The fact that that number is so close is a reflection of how poor Barrie is defensively. The 2nd and 3rd liners shouldn't be scoring at a rate close to the 1st liners.

 

[Ivan13]

that's kind of a contradiction though, isn't it?

2015-16 5v5.
Tyson Barrie 2.34 goals against/60 minutes
Erik Johnson 2.52 goals against/60 minutes

Erik Johnson gives up more goals than Barrie. Is he worse at "defense"?

Don't bother, they created their little narrative and are following it like gospel.

 

[TT1]

that's kind of a contradiction though, isn't it?

2015-16 5v5.
Tyson Barrie 2.34 goals against/60 minutes
Erik Johnson 2.52 goals against/60 minutes

Erik Johnson gives up more goals than Barrie. Is he worse at "defense"?

you also have to take into account their quality of competion (aswell as quaity of linemates) and their dzone/ozone starts.

someone who gets alot of dzone starts vs the opposing teams top lines night in night out will most likely give up more goals than say a 2nd pairing offensive dman with alot of ozone starts.

guys like Barrie, Ellis, Shattenkirk etc. have what i like to call "inflated advanced stats".

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

that's kind of a contradiction though, isn't it?

2015-16 5v5.
Tyson Barrie 2.34 goals against/60 minutes
Erik Johnson 2.52 goals against/60 minutes

Erik Johnson gives up more goals than Barrie. Is he worse at "defense"?

Harder QoC, fewer offensive zone starts.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/GZHKW2TPW?:display_count=no

 

[AslanRH]

Don't bother, they created their little narrative and are following it like gospel.

Clearly he must be worth Suban / Karlsson money then, as the other gospel writers claim that he is Elite offensively and at least average (or above average to some) defensively, combined that would make him one of the most well rounded defensemen in the league.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

He needs to fire his agent if that's all he's asking for.

 

[Ivan13]

Clearly he must be worth Suban / Karlsson money then, as the other gospel writers claim that he is Elite offensively and at least average (or above average to some) defensively, combined that would make him one of the most well rounded defensemen in the league.

Where does he rank in ES production over the last handful of years? He is worth 6mil.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

A right handed defenseman who gets 50 points.
Isn't that bad defensively as some are making him out to be.
I can see them doing a 2 year 4.7 then 5.4 contract

Or a long term at 6.5

 

[chet1926]

Harder QoC, fewer offensive zone starts.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/GZHKW2TPW?:display_count=no

This chart just goes to show how bad Barrie is in his own end.

This chart shows that they trusted Nick freaking Holden more in his own end than Barrie. As Holden matched up with slightly better quality opponents and had less offensive zone starts than Barrie.

Barrie is a high end offensive player, but his defense is very mediocre and he turns the puck over at alarming rates. He is not worth more than 4.75-5.25M per IMO. When you are getting outplayed defensively by Nick Holden that's not good as Holden is very mediocre and shouldn't be much more than a #6 dman.

 

[chet1926]

A right handed defenseman who gets 50 points.
Isn't that bad defensively as some are making him out to be.
I can see them doing a 2 year 4.7 then 5.4 contract

Or a long term at 6.5

Sorry, look at IWantSakicAsMyGM post above with the stat link. Shows that Barrie was worse defensively than Nick Holden, ie: that's not good, if anything that is awful.

Barrie is a one dimensional player. One dimensional players shouldn't get paid elite level money.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Where does he rank in ES production over the last handful of years? He is worth 6mil.

I'd be happier with him at $5.75m with term, but if $6m gets him signed for 5+ years, I won't complain.

If he wants $7m, that's where I start having issues. He's very good offensively, but his defensive warts keep him from being one of the league's truly elite defensemen.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Don't bother, they created their little narrative and are following it like gospel.

What narrative is that exactly? Your love affair with Barrie is only the exciting, sexy stat. Watch the games and you'll see a small d-man that is exposed on a nightly basis.

 

[strictlyrandy]

The sad thing is, Barrie has been right there with Guenin as far as giving up goals goes. Barrie got scored on a lot. Obviously he is more influential than just the number of goals against though, unlike those two who were worthless.

You are comparing Barrie to Guenin and Zanon, the two slowest slugs to have put on the uniform recently, but others are blowing his liabilities out of proportion? His liabilities and those twos' liabilities are completely different.

Barrie is a below average defender. Somewhere between " liability" and "average". Better than the likes of Guenin, Zanon, Redmond, etc, but worse than even someone like Holden.

You're comprehension is way off. I never compared Zanon and Guenin to Barrie. I said others are acting as if he's as bad as the offspring of those two. You completely misread my post and failed to even comprehend what I was getting at.

Barrie isn't bad defensively. He's far better than you give him credit for. He's no defensive stalwart by any means but he's a superior defender to Holden in that regard.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

This chart just goes to show how bad Barrie is in his own end.

This chart shows that they trusted Nick freaking Holden more in his own end than Barrie. As Holden matched up with slightly better quality opponents and had less offensive zone starts than Barrie.

Barrie is a high end offensive player, but his defense is very mediocre and he turns the puck over at alarming rates. He is not worth more than 4.75-5.25M per IMO. When you are getting outplayed defensively by Nick Holden that's not good as Holden is very mediocre and shouldn't be much more than a #6 dman.

It actually just shows usage, not performance. He was given more offensive zone starts against easier competition, which probably contributed to his slightly better 5v5 GA/60.

I get them trying to save Barrie for times when his offensive skills have a chance to shine. No other D on the team has his offensive skills.

 

[tucker3434]

This chart just goes to show how bad Barrie is in his own end.

This chart shows that they trusted Nick freaking Holden more in his own end than Barrie. As Holden matched up with slightly better quality opponents and had less offensive zone starts than Barrie.

Barrie is a high end offensive player, but his defense is very mediocre and he turns the puck over at alarming rates. He is not worth more than 4.75-5.25M per IMO. When you are getting outplayed defensively by Nick Holden that's not good as Holden is very mediocre and shouldn't be much more than a #6 dman.

No it doesn't. It's a usage chart. It shows that Roy isn't a total moron and knows that deploying Barrie in the offensive zone is the best use of him.

There's absolutely no reason to overplay a guy like Barrie in the defensive zone. That isn't is strength. It wouldn't make sense.